Well then, my case for Herbert | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Well then, my case for Herbert

Jeremy0020 said:
Even in saying this, I am still a fan of filling the lines first with this draft. I am biased (of course) but also realistic. Justin Herbert certainly has his ups and downs. He is an elite QB with all of the tools and characteristics you want in a QB. He reminds me so much of Fitzbeard it is unbelievable. Herbert was the academic Heisman winner. So both are very smart. Herbert has a way better set of skills. They both are gunslingers with grit that can run tough. I think Fitz can teach Herbert and mold him into a very good QB. In turn, Herbert can learn so very much from watching him. Of course I would love to see Herbert wearing aqua and orange....the same as I would love to see Thibodeaux doing the same in a couple years! But it would be a really good fit imo. That said, I still want to fill in the lines and D backfield. I have all the faith in the world that Flores and staff will make the best decision regarding this team. Even if they believe Rosen is the man going forward. Hell, while I might cry if they gamble on Tua...I would be ok with that as well.
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He is an elite QB with has his ups and downs??
Can you reconcile those words?
 
EJay said:
I hope the Dolphins don’t touch Herbert with the proverbial 10 foot pole. He might be a good character kid, but he doesn’t look like a franchise QB type to me.

I think he‘ll be in Ryan Tannehill mold. Tantalizing to the point that some team is going to waste numerous years hoping he becomes more than average. All these GM’s and armchairs are overly infatuated with height, weight, athleticism, arm strength, etc. to the point that they overlook more important things. That’s why a guy like Russell Wilson slipped to the 3rd round while Tannehill went in the 1st.
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That's right. He's a franchise person, but I don't think he's franchise quarterback.
 
what, Tannehill? Do you see the great job Tannehill is doing with Tennessee? He is looking like a 1st round pick finally. I think he has a 70% completion percentage?
 
ChrisEAS said:
what, Tannehill? Do you see the great job Tannehill is doing with Tennessee? He is looking like a 1st round pick finally. I think he has a 70% completion percentage?
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He's been doing a great job over, what, 10 games? Perhaps the answer to why he's only now looking like a 1st round pick is the answer to why Herbert is being compared to him.
 
EJay said:
I hope the Dolphins don’t touch Herbert with the proverbial 10 foot pole. He might be a good character kid, but he doesn’t look like a franchise QB type to me.

I think he‘ll be in Ryan Tannehill mold. Tantalizing to the point that some team is going to waste numerous years hoping he becomes more than average. All these GM’s and armchairs are overly infatuated with height, weight, athleticism, arm strength, etc. to the point that they overlook more important things. That’s why a guy like Russell Wilson slipped to the 3rd round while Tannehill went in the 1st.
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I agree with this and watching Herbert reminds me a lot of Tannehill sometimes. Both are kinda quiet leaders but the best QB's that are always in the playoffs, Wilson, Brees, Brady, and now Watson and Wentz. They all have a fire about them and you can just see it. I dont see that with Herbert. you can win a superbowl with a quiet leader like Eli Manning and Tannehill but it seems to be more difficult. I would feel more comfortable drafting Burrow or a healthy Tua.

I dont feel as strongly as you about not drafting herbert at all in the 1st round but I wouldnt be as excited about it, kinda like when we drafted Tannehill.
 
meatpardle said:
He's been doing a great job over, what, 10 games? Perhaps the answer to why he's only now looking like a 1st round pick is the answer to why Herbert is being compared to him.
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well, he played for us before lol. Hardly any support cast, hardly any coaching. I think we are finally starting to see the real Tannehill.
 
I think I've been able to put my finger on at least one thing that bothers me about Justin Herbert.

Has he actually gotten any better in the last three years?

I know he got better from 2016 to 2017. But has he gotten significantly better since then?
 
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ckparrothead said:
I think I've been able to put my finger on at least one thing that bothers me about Justin Herbert.

Has he actually gotten any better in the last three years?

I know he got better from 2016 to 2017. But has he gotten significantly better since then?
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I think he's gotten better in clutch moments and in big games. He's aced almost every big moment as a Senior.

I remember pointing out how much Tannehill regressed as a Senior compared to his Junior year when he actually put aTm on his back. I tried to point out that the Junior version of Tannehill might be something, but the Senior version of him was going to leave you disappointed.

I believe a few posters are correct in terms of the offense and how it limits Herbert's development some because it doesn't really highlight his strengths, or the aspects of his game that do translate to the next level. I think mechanically there's still some improvements to be made with Herbert as well. But it's difficult for me to bet on him as a franchise player.
 
I just don't think he's bothered to add any more texture to his game in the last three years. And I know I disagreed with you about some of those big moments against let's say Auburn or Washington.

There's a difference between a guy who works hard and a guy who is able to form an edge and get better. I don't know if it's love of the game, I don't know if that's a fair thing to accuse a guy like Herbert of, maybe forming that edge is a talent. But I don't think he's gotten significantly better since 2017. He's not done a significant amount of work to his feet, his mechanics, his process. He's not added elements to his game. He's certainly not been impelled to re-make his game the way Burrow and Tagovailoa have.
 
I don’t think Herbert knows how limiting that offense ask is to his next level development. Like he seems clueless on it.

probably what bothers me more than anything. Although that zone read threat with his legs is real. He outflanked Wisconsin on what 3 rushing tds. He covers ground in a hurry. Even if it doesn’t appear to be the most natural look to it

someone’s got to figure out where the limit is in terms of his development and ask even. Is it the player or it the coaching.
 
He's gotten better using his legs in the last half of the year, but essentially throwing the ball and playing the QB position he is the same guy. I'm not against drafting Herbert at 5 at all, I don't feel overly great about it but if this is the guy they want and they do everything in their power to make him a success, then fine lets ride that train.

I do see the Tannehill comparisions though and that worries me, I hated the Tanny pick when we made it but I wouldn't hate this pick unless we passed on Tua to take him, that would be asinine. I do think we will take a QB at 5 and it will be one of Tua, Herbert or Love, right now I'm probably leaning towards Love as being the alternative to Tua if he's not there for us but I would be willing to drink the kool-aid on any of them, we just need to swing and hope we connect.
 
Wisconsin was under-prepared for it. They had help defenders in the right areas but they just didn't do their job. They kept trying to do other peoples' jobs.
 
Geordie said:
He's gotten better using his legs in the last half of the year, but essentially throwing the ball and playing the QB position he is the same guy. I'm not against drafting Herbert at 5 at all, I don't feel overly great about it but if this is the guy they want and they do everything in their power to make him a success, then fine lets ride that train.

I do see the Tannehill comparisions though and that worries me, I hated the Tanny pick when we made it but I wouldn't hate this pick unless we passed on Tua to take him, that would be asinine. I do think we will take a QB at 5 and it will be one of Tua, Herbert or Love, right now I'm probably leaning towards Love as being the alternative to Tua if he's not there for us but I would be willing to drink the kool-aid on any of them, we just need to swing and hope we connect.
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Not from a skills standpoint. He's the same guy, that way. Maybe the offense used it more, but he's not actually shown a higher level of skill that way. I was just watching 2017 games of his and it's the same.
 
One thing that separates Burrow is how accurate he is throwing from different platforms, on the move, and how he's able to reset his feet to throw while on the move - which I referenced fairly recently. The difference is massive.

However, unfortunately for quarterbacks like Burrow and Tua - they're likely to be throwing to worse receivers in the NFL than they had in college. Just the opposite for Herbert.
 
I saw entire games where Oregon ran nothing but pistol but if you aren’t prepared for zone read with that style qb that’s on the coaching staff imo. Cause it’s always in the back pocket qb skill set wise.
 
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