What can Tua do that Josh can't? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

What can Tua do that Josh can't?

finomenal

finomenal

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I keep reading and hearing how Tua is a generational talent and an obvious upgrade over Rosen. Let's take a look at a few things.

www.nfl.com

Josh Rosen Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

All Combine and Draft-Related Analysis, News, Video, and Biographical Information for Josh Rosen
www.nfl.com www.nfl.com

Overview

Josh Rosen's footwork and mechanics make him as pretty a quarterback as you will find in this year's draft. The biggest concern with Rosen is that his on-field success requires many elements to stay on schedule. He lacks plus arm strength, so identifying coverage (pre- and post-snap) and throwing with anticipation takes on added importance. Rosen has the pocket poise, accuracy and intelligence to become a good NFL starter, but he needs to be willing to take what defenses give him more frequently. Rosen will need to quell concerns surrounding leadership and coachability early on in order to establish a strong first impression and get his career off on the right foot.

Strengths
  • Tennis prodigy with impeccable footwork and delivery balance
  • Plays with excellent coordination between eyes and feet
  • Gets head around quickly on play-fakes
  • Has experience under center
  • Anchors in pocket and doesn't creep around needlessly
  • Trusts his protection and doesn't take eyes of targets when pressure mounts from the edge
  • Climbs pocket when appropriate
  • Willing to stand and deliver in face of pressure
  • Completed 63 percent of his passes when blitzed in 2017
  • Accuracy totals negatively impacted by 31 receiver drops this year
  • Holds his water in pocket
  • Mechanics are terrific
  • Rarely over-strides and throws with consistently bent front knee
  • Throwing motion and follow-through are effortless
  • Extremely confident and intelligent
  • Throws receivers open
  • Might be best back shoulder thrower in the game
  • Shows ability to speed up operation time for move to next level
  • Very good usage of shoulder fakes and hitches to move defenders or buy additional time for receivers to uncover
  • Touch passer who can throw feathers when needed
Weaknesses
  • Durability is a concern
  • Carries slight build and has had injury issues dating back to high school
  • Carries ball low in pocket with slight upward pre-throw hitch
  • Too casual in pocket set-up
  • Decision making and post-snap reads are inconsistent
  • Refuses easy throws at times
  • Arm talent and strength are below average
  • May need to make greater effort to drive field and seam throws
  • Poor career deep ball completion rate
  • Excess air under ball allows challenges
  • Lacks gun to challenge safeties with rip throws over the top
  • Needs better anticipation
  • Poor mobility
  • Struggles to elude early pressure
  • Completed just 42.4 percent of his throws when forced to move
  • Too much hero ball
  • Extends plays and takes unnecessary chances rather than throwing it away
  • Scouts question his passion for football and whether he will be a willing student
Sources Tell Us

"He wasn't the guy everyone rallied around in college and you don't have to dig around for too long to find people who said he was hard to coach. He's definitely talented. Nobody questions that. But he's going to have to get grown men to buy into him as their leader. That is not a given." -- NFL Executive
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The chief concerns seem to be past injuries, decision making, and the notion that he's been a jerk. What am I missing? Can't the decision making deficiencies be coached up? Josh already said he's learned more in the last few months than he has during his entire career. Sure, it could be some hot air, but maybe there's something to it.

How much better of a prospect would he have been coming out of college if he was taught how to identify the Mike earlier? I'm sure there's plenty more he wasn't taught if he wasn't taught that basic job. High school QBs do that. Still, I'm of the belief that no matter how well Rosen plays this season, you can't pass up on the consensus generational talent. Remember how passing on Drew Brees twice stung like hell?
 
I think Tua is more polished. He makes quicker reads, gets the ball out quicker and overall is a better decision maker. Hes also got more mobility going for him, better anticipation and ball placement. I like Rosen but Tua is better
 
The Tua question, and it is somewhat the same for anyone excelling in the Roll Tide system, is the talent level around them verses the competition. How would Tua have done as the Duke quarterback against Alabama? The elite program is not the best situation to prep for the NFL when you don’t have the pressure, wide receivers are always open, etc. You look at the guys who are drafted second, third and fourth compared to those number one’s and you will see some of those guys who looked like they struggled in college were actually reading defenses and throwing into much smaller windows and are better prepared to challenge at the next level. I personally prefer the accurate pocket passer over the quarterback/athlete with a lot of rushing yards. To me Rosen is still a very good prospect, very young and has tremendous upside still.
 
FINOMINAL said:
The Tua question, and it is somewhat the same for anyone excelling in the Roll Tide system, is the talent level around them verses the competition. How would Tua have done as the Duke quarterback against Alabama? The elite program is not the best situation to prep for the NFL when you don’t have the pressure, wide receivers are always open, etc. You look at the guys who are drafted second, third and fourth compared to those number one’s and you will see some of those guys who looked like they struggled in college were actually reading defenses and throwing into much smaller windows and are better prepared to challenge at the next level. I personally prefer the accurate pocket passer over the quarterback/athlete with a lot of rushing yards. To me Rosen is still a very good prospect, very young and has tremendous upside still.
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Good thing Tua isn’t a rushing qb then
 
TBD.

I think there is a lot more evaluation to do on both QB's before anything is decided.

Thankfully the Dolphins agree because......how could they not?

I like the things Rosen can do. I like the things Tua can do. I don't want to join one side or the other 1 start into Rosen's tenure. I am an also an Alabama skeptic. I ALSO don't want to miss out on a generational talent if Rosen is just good. I don't think there is a need to fall in line with either "side" right now.

I don't really want to have both for some reason though, but if it comes to that so be it.

This FO values draft picks and flexibility above all else right.

I contend that by April, the decision will likely be a lot clearer than it is today. I think this is what has people a bit on edge; the current path hasn't been defined.

Believe it or not, it's easier to evaluate the situation once the games are all actually played.

TBD.
 
Dolphins81 said:
Tua will be a bust here in Miami and out of the league or a backup within 3 years.
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Wow, you seem so sure that’ll happen. I’m thinking you’re assuming that’ll happen because nobody can be so sure of a player until he actually plays in the NFL.
If anyone has a bigger bust potential at this stage it’s Rosen. Kids already been in the NFL a year and 3 games and couldn’t even beat out a journeyman QB for the starting position.0
 
Tua is a great prospect because he has great anticipation and supposedly has "elite" accuracy at all three levels according to talent evaluators. His arm isn't Mahomes strong and he's not a runner like Lamar Jackson, but he gets compared to Drew Brees because he's just so ridiculously accurate which is the most important quarterback skill imo.
 
Dolphins81 said:
Tua will be a bust here in Miami and out of the league or a backup within 3 years.
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You mean Rosen? Cause he's well on his way to being a backup or being on a completely different team next year. One team has already upgraded from him. The Dolphins are about to.
 
I don't follow college football at all and only pay attention to the analysis of college players coming up to the NFL draft each year. Having said that, I'd really like to see the breakdown of Tua's plays against pressure, real pressure. Has he had any? Isn't he basically surrounded by teammates who are themselves top NFL prospects every year?

Honestly, I'm reminded of Baker Mayfield (who I really wanted Miami to take). Despite all the insane hype on this forum by gurus and draft media types like PFF Mayfield is starting to show some troubling warning signs, including things some predicted would happen at the next level. He doesn't hold the pocket very well and seems to scramble out and away too quickly, giving ground while trying to get into the open. This is a reflection of the criticism that he's too small and can't see over NFL linemen. It's too early to say, but it's possible we're already seeing some of this same thing with Kyler Murray (who I also wanted).

Isn't Tua like 6'1" (some say this number is also inflated)?

Turns out, not everyone can be Drew Brees...
 
I posted in the other thread how the 3 yards per carry guys were unimpressed with Rosen's Sunday outing. They said that Josh's same issues he had coming out are still there, he holds on to the ball too long and doesn't throw with anticipation, while Tua excels in that area and is able to judge pre sanp and analyse post reads way better than Josh. I'm no expert evaluator so I will take their word on this. It stacks up on Tua though, if you watch him, he just makes QBing look easy, the lack of ints to me screams out loud with Tua, he gave up 2 in the regular season last year, I believe (went I think 10 games or so before giving up his first one) and hasn't given up one yet this season. He apparently had more TDs than missed passes on Saturday, the kid is ridiculous and passing up on him would be a huge mistake for any franchise.
 
Get drafted by the Dolphins but aside from that his accuracy and ball placement is what sets him apart. I read somewhere here that something like 70% of Tua's yards this year are coming from yac. I look at that as a positive as it show's he's hitting receivers in stride and giving them the chance to pick up extra yards. I could see someone like Albert Wilson (or a WR like him) benefitting greatly.
 
superphin said:
Get drafted by the Dolphins but aside from that his accuracy and ball placement is what sets him apart. I read somewhere here that something like 70% of Tua's yards this year are coming from yac. I look at that as a positive as it show's he's hitting receivers in stride and giving them the chance to pick up extra yards. I could see someone like Albert Wilson (or a WR like him) benefitting greatly.
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Pretty damn impressive.
 
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