What it took the Browns to "Turn It Around" | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

What it took the Browns to "Turn It Around"

Grier is a joke. I could do better than he has. His drafts are bad and his free agent signings are not good either. He buys himself time by kicking the can down the road, but at some point, you have to pay it off.

Our overall talent level is bottom third.
 
ANUFan said:
Wait, it didn’t happen over night? Even with all those high draft picks?
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When I said their record got worse the further back I looked, I wasn't kidding.

I picked the point in time just before they went 1-15 and then 0-16 to start my spreadsheet from. I felt that was the low point for them and the start of their attempt to turn things around. It did coincide with some of their huge drafts.

I had forgotten just how many QB's they went thru. I always liked Hoyer. He was a good QB on a terrible team; I never saw him quit.

I suspect many of those draft picks made good, I just don't remember all those names and where they ended up.
 
juniorseau55 said:
Base on Dolphins regime history our Coach had one good season, and the following season is becoming a disaster. This recipe leads to coach firing, and us looking for another gm just to repeat the same crap. We are just not harboring a winning culture.
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Considering his first year where we had gutted the team for draft picks, a 5 win season doesn't look that bad either. It's as good as the Browns did after a big draft.
Rockchalk said:
So just to be clear, the Cleveland Browns are the baseline for rebuilding?
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Many posters here referred to the Browns turnaround as a comparison to ours. I responded saying I remembered a lot of QB's were used. I went ahead and looked it up (I know that using actual facts aggravates some of our posters, but as they say in Russia -Toughski Shiskie!).

Imagine a poster here with the mentality to present facts and then use those facts to draw a conclusion - LOL

Please tell me you weren't looking for "Lemming" points with your response. I'm having trouble determining if some of these posts are serious questions or attempts at being "snarky". I try to give folks the benefit of the doubt.
lynx said:
I think we are sorely missing a veteran presence on the Oline who is actually a good player
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bane said:
browns actually sucked since they came back into the league around 2001 or whenever. They went through a zillion rebuilds.
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As I said in my original post:

It is clear BEYOUND QUESTION that we are miles ahead of what Cleveland did to establish their turn around and that is just looking at their last 6 complete seasons. Go back another 10 years and their results are even worse!
LargoFin said:
No we are not miles ahead. It takes two things and one more. It takes a QB who will give you competitive edge. The Browns did turn it around until they drafted Mayfield. Second thing you need is great defensive coordinator, and the Browns do not have that. We do not have that either. And I do not see how our QB gives us any competitive edge. But to get the QB, we need a GM so that is kind of the third thing, although you only really need a QB and DC.
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The stats don't agree with you. They show us performing at a much higher level.

Having another view as to what we need doesn't change that at all!
 
Delvin said:
They hit on Mayfield. Take that away and the Browns would be struggling like many other teams.
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Mayfield had a losing record his first two years.

How did you miss something that obvious, or is it you just don't care about facts that counter your opinion!
 
HarryBagpipe said:
Trying too hard to make the sun orbit the earth like ptolemy did instead of just seeing whats the obvious conclusion. Sometimes people want a certain answer so bad they’ll do what they can to manipulate the information to come to that conclusion. Did the same with gase. Come to a conclusion that they really wanted to happen first and than make sure the information supports their already predetermined conclusion
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I'm glad I'm not like that - LOL
 
Ray R said:
Mayfield had a losing record his first two years.

How did you miss something that obvious, or is it you just don't care about facts that counter your opinion!
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A teams record is on the team, not 1 player.
 
LibertineOneThree said:
The Browns were doing it wrong for years despite the benefit of high draft picks. They wasted draft assets time and time again. It’s not like they were slowly getting better. They were cyclically static for years. They just drafted badly for years on end.

That’s exactly what a lot of fans around here are concerned about. Poor evaluation, poor drafts, poor salary cap management.

If you want to follow the Browns blueprint you should pick it up around 2018 when they started drafting well and building a team.

A retool or rebuild does not need to take as long as the Browns were doing it for. It’s a poor example.
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It's a real example that some posters here lauded.

I just dug up the facts.

I'm not surprised the facts in this case don't agree with your opinions, i mean why should they - LOL
 
Ray R said:
What it took the Browns to "Turn It Around"

Cleveland Browns Record over the last 8 years
YearW-L RecordH.C. CoachQBQBQBDraft SizeQB Drafted
20147-9Mike PettineBrian HoyerBrandon Weeden61-22 Manzell
20153-13"Josh McGownJohnny ManzellConor Shin12
20161-15Hue JacksonCody KesslerRobert Griffin IIIJosh McGown143-93 Kessler
20170-16"Deshone KaiserKevin Hogan102-52 Kaiser
20187-8"Baker MayfieldTyrod Taylor91-1 Mayfield
20196-10Freddie KitchensBaker Mayfield7
202011-5Kevin StefanskiBaker Mayfield7
2021"Baker Mayfield8

If we only look at the last 6 years (2015 to 2020) This is what I see:
1) A losing record for all but 2020, or a 1-5 record for winning seasons.
2) The Browns went through 3 Head coaches (to-date).
3) The Browns went through 10 QB's to get to Baker Mayfield.
4) The Browns had 4 big drafts of 12, 14, 10 and 9 from 2015-2018
5) The Browns drafted 4 QB's over 2014 to 2018 (Manzell Rd#1-pick#22, Kessler Rd#3-pick#93, Kaiser Rd#2-pick#52 and Mayfield Rd#1-Pick#1)

So the Browns turnaround took (at the very least) 6 years, during which they burned thru 3 HC's, 4 drafted QB's and a total of 10 QB's overall.

As of today they have a 1-5 seasonal record where they won more then 1/2 of their games.

We are 3 years into a rebuild with a 1-1 seasonal record where we won more then 1/2 our games.
We have drafted 1 QB who is still considered our best QB.
We are still "working" on our 1st HC.

It is clear BEYOUND QUESTION that we are miles ahead of what Cleveland did to establish their turn around and that is just looking at their last 6 complete seasons. Go back another 10 years and their results are even worse!

If anyone on this board still thinks we need to "start all over again" please identify yourselves" so I can see you get all the "Lemming" points you so justly deserve!

30 years of "experience my **s.

More like 30 years of an experience from where you learned "diddly squat".
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This is really good. If you go back further to Tim Couch and other QBs it’s taken more like 20 years. And I’m not sure the Browns are a model anyone should be holding up as the norm. They aren’t. They have been woeful at this. So many misses on QBs. So many bad decisions. So many coaches. They are an anomaly not the norm.

To be fair they had great / good QBs from 1699 to 1999. Then no 1 overall Tim Couch came along. Look at some of the guys who played for them - Jeff Garcia, Trent Dilfer, Gary Danielson - heck even Don Strock started for them for a few games once. Good QBs. They were interrupted by the move from the “old Browns” to the expansion Brown. The “old Browns” were always competitive. And took that franchise to Baltimore where they continue to have success. They “new Browns” were an expansion level team for about 20 years. What’s our excuse?!!!

List of Cleveland Browns starting quarterbacks - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
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NBP81 said:
Thing is, if things are done inteligently, you shouldnt need to have Cle as your baseline. The Fins have the right idea in mind but are all over the place when it comes to execution... Which is kind of ironic considering Flores keeps on harping about execution in is PCs after losses.

"They tried to upgrade the OL" comes up often enough. They saw the problem, which is good, but decided they could put a bunch of kids in there and hope they all gel together in time for this year. Now call me crazy but if thats a route you're going to take, wouldnt hiring an experienced OL coach kind of be a no brainer? IIRC, they were switching these guys positions daily in training camp. Considering these are all very young players, wouldnt making them practice at a fixed spot all traning camp have been beneficial to them, at least on the short term?

Every move sort of makes sense individually but when you put them together, its a collection of moves that dont make sense as a whole. I really dont care about the time frame, or the method you go about it if you can sell me a logic about a positive end game. And Im just not buying what they are selling at this point. This is what? 3-4 OCs in 3 years, this doesnt look like someone who knows where he's going, it looks like someone who's reacting instead of following a successful vision.

The OL is only one of the warts that are showing up. Anyone who cares to read what I have to write knows I was completely against building a defense before you're offense is running on all cylinders... This was why, we wasted a top 5 scoring D last year, which was absolutely unlikely to repeat this year, with a **** offense. The following year we're stuck with a **** offense because of their lack of aptitude to build even an average OL AND a **** defense because well, they aint getting all that lucky anymoe.

Furthermore, as much as I've been banging the table for building a passing offense before a run heavy one, it wouldnt have mattered anyway because they simply cannot build an OL, and when I mean they, it's just become blatantly clear that they=Grier. Often times, lack of a sample size will keep you from saying **** like that, but after 20 years of the OL sucking and the only guy who's been there 20 years is Grier. Sample size isnt a problem.

@Pachyderm_Wave had been saying he hoped Tua ended up on another team before the draft up until he was told he couldnt post in the main anymore and got crusified for it. Looking back, I dare anyone on here whether they like Tua or not, to tell me he didnt end up in a major **** show.
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Until we rebuild "correctly", we won't really know what it takes. There are a lot of opinions out there that I don't buy into.

If we are lucky, we'll be able to have a meaningful discussion after we win a Superbowl.

As for now, my OP stands uncorrected or even meaningfully challenged.

"Just the "FACTS" ma'am, just the "FACTS".
 
bane said:
browns have lost a lot longer then 6 years. Amazing how people on this board say we stunk for 33 years but now the browns turned it around in 6 years. They were terrible when they were brought back into the league. So it took around 20 years or more for them to turn it around.

Now how did they do it?

Great pass rusher
Great offense line with additions of veteran free agents like conklin
average qb that can do well on the move and play action

it is really not that hard.

Honestly we can sign veteran free agents on the line this offseason.
then tua or almost any qb like tannehill can do well.
not sure we can get a great pass rusher like mlyes garret.

Browns have had many terrible seasons since coming back in the 2000 year. they were terrible in the 90s too except for one or two years under bellicheck

They failed many more than 6 years
But they took those three things I listed above to turn it around.

I wanted conklin last year but we sign flowers and other guys we cut
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It’s not that hard? Browns stacked offense with skill guys that are difference makers. Try two of the best RBs in the league on the same roster. We can’t even draft one. WR and TE rooms also loaded. This is about talent acquisition and game changing skill level. We are pedestrian at all of the positions no matter how “good” we think we look on paper.
 
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