When I said their record got worse the further back I looked, I wasn't kidding.Wait, it didn’t happen over night? Even with all those high draft picks?
Considering his first year where we had gutted the team for draft picks, a 5 win season doesn't look that bad either. It's as good as the Browns did after a big draft.Base on Dolphins regime history our Coach had one good season, and the following season is becoming a disaster. This recipe leads to coach firing, and us looking for another gm just to repeat the same crap. We are just not harboring a winning culture.
Many posters here referred to the Browns turnaround as a comparison to ours. I responded saying I remembered a lot of QB's were used. I went ahead and looked it up (I know that using actual facts aggravates some of our posters, but as they say in Russia -Toughski Shiskie!).So just to be clear, the Cleveland Browns are the baseline for rebuilding?
I think we are sorely missing a veteran presence on the Oline who is actually a good player
As I said in my original post:browns actually sucked since they came back into the league around 2001 or whenever. They went through a zillion rebuilds.
The stats don't agree with you. They show us performing at a much higher level.No we are not miles ahead. It takes two things and one more. It takes a QB who will give you competitive edge. The Browns did turn it around until they drafted Mayfield. Second thing you need is great defensive coordinator, and the Browns do not have that. We do not have that either. And I do not see how our QB gives us any competitive edge. But to get the QB, we need a GM so that is kind of the third thing, although you only really need a QB and DC.
Mayfield had a losing record his first two years.They hit on Mayfield. Take that away and the Browns would be struggling like many other teams.
I'm glad I'm not like that - LOLTrying too hard to make the sun orbit the earth like ptolemy did instead of just seeing whats the obvious conclusion. Sometimes people want a certain answer so bad they’ll do what they can to manipulate the information to come to that conclusion. Did the same with gase. Come to a conclusion that they really wanted to happen first and than make sure the information supports their already predetermined conclusion
A teams record is on the team, not 1 player.Mayfield had a losing record his first two years.
How did you miss something that obvious, or is it you just don't care about facts that counter your opinion!
How can you tell where one rebuild stopped and the other started?browns actually sucked since they came back into the league around 2001 or whenever. They went through a zillion rebuilds.
It's a real example that some posters here lauded.The Browns were doing it wrong for years despite the benefit of high draft picks. They wasted draft assets time and time again. It’s not like they were slowly getting better. They were cyclically static for years. They just drafted badly for years on end.
That’s exactly what a lot of fans around here are concerned about. Poor evaluation, poor drafts, poor salary cap management.
If you want to follow the Browns blueprint you should pick it up around 2018 when they started drafting well and building a team.
A retool or rebuild does not need to take as long as the Browns were doing it for. It’s a poor example.
You’re weird - LOLIt's a real example that some posters here lauded.
I just dug up the facts.
I'm not surprised the facts in this case don't agree with your opinions, i mean why should they - LOL
This is really good. If you go back further to Tim Couch and other QBs it’s taken more like 20 years. And I’m not sure the Browns are a model anyone should be holding up as the norm. They aren’t. They have been woeful at this. So many misses on QBs. So many bad decisions. So many coaches. They are an anomaly not the norm.What it took the Browns to "Turn It Around"
Cleveland Browns Record over the last 8 years Year W-L Record H.C. Coach QB QB QB Draft Size QB Drafted 2014 7-9 Mike Pettine Brian Hoyer Brandon Weeden 6 1-22 Manzell 2015 3-13 " Josh McGown Johnny Manzell Conor Shin 12 2016 1-15 Hue Jackson Cody Kessler Robert Griffin III Josh McGown 14 3-93 Kessler 2017 0-16 " Deshone Kaiser Kevin Hogan 10 2-52 Kaiser 2018 7-8 " Baker Mayfield Tyrod Taylor 9 1-1 Mayfield 2019 6-10 Freddie Kitchens Baker Mayfield 7 2020 11-5 Kevin Stefanski Baker Mayfield 7 2021 " Baker Mayfield 8
If we only look at the last 6 years (2015 to 2020) This is what I see:
1) A losing record for all but 2020, or a 1-5 record for winning seasons.
2) The Browns went through 3 Head coaches (to-date).
3) The Browns went through 10 QB's to get to Baker Mayfield.
4) The Browns had 4 big drafts of 12, 14, 10 and 9 from 2015-2018
5) The Browns drafted 4 QB's over 2014 to 2018 (Manzell Rd#1-pick#22, Kessler Rd#3-pick#93, Kaiser Rd#2-pick#52 and Mayfield Rd#1-Pick#1)
So the Browns turnaround took (at the very least) 6 years, during which they burned thru 3 HC's, 4 drafted QB's and a total of 10 QB's overall.
As of today they have a 1-5 seasonal record where they won more then 1/2 of their games.
We are 3 years into a rebuild with a 1-1 seasonal record where we won more then 1/2 our games.
We have drafted 1 QB who is still considered our best QB.
We are still "working" on our 1st HC.
It is clear BEYOUND QUESTION that we are miles ahead of what Cleveland did to establish their turn around and that is just looking at their last 6 complete seasons. Go back another 10 years and their results are even worse!
If anyone on this board still thinks we need to "start all over again" please identify yourselves" so I can see you get all the "Lemming" points you so justly deserve!
30 years of "experience my **s.
More like 30 years of an experience from where you learned "diddly squat".
Thing is, if things are done inteligently, you shouldnt need to have Cle as your baseline. The Fins have the right idea in mind but are all over the place when it comes to execution... Which is kind of ironic considering Flores keeps on harping about execution in is PCs after losses.
"They tried to upgrade the OL" comes up often enough. They saw the problem, which is good, but decided they could put a bunch of kids in there and hope they all gel together in time for this year. Now call me crazy but if thats a route you're going to take, wouldnt hiring an experienced OL coach kind of be a no brainer? IIRC, they were switching these guys positions daily in training camp. Considering these are all very young players, wouldnt making them practice at a fixed spot all traning camp have been beneficial to them, at least on the short term?
Every move sort of makes sense individually but when you put them together, its a collection of moves that dont make sense as a whole. I really dont care about the time frame, or the method you go about it if you can sell me a logic about a positive end game. And Im just not buying what they are selling at this point. This is what? 3-4 OCs in 3 years, this doesnt look like someone who knows where he's going, it looks like someone who's reacting instead of following a successful vision.
The OL is only one of the warts that are showing up. Anyone who cares to read what I have to write knows I was completely against building a defense before you're offense is running on all cylinders... This was why, we wasted a top 5 scoring D last year, which was absolutely unlikely to repeat this year, with a **** offense. The following year we're stuck with a **** offense because of their lack of aptitude to build even an average OL AND a **** defense because well, they aint getting all that lucky anymoe.
Furthermore, as much as I've been banging the table for building a passing offense before a run heavy one, it wouldnt have mattered anyway because they simply cannot build an OL, and when I mean they, it's just become blatantly clear that they=Grier. Often times, lack of a sample size will keep you from saying **** like that, but after 20 years of the OL sucking and the only guy who's been there 20 years is Grier. Sample size isnt a problem.
@Pachyderm_Wave had been saying he hoped Tua ended up on another team before the draft up until he was told he couldnt post in the main anymore and got crusified for it. Looking back, I dare anyone on here whether they like Tua or not, to tell me he didnt end up in a major **** show.
I prefer "unusually enlightened" - LOLYou’re weird - LOL
Try telling that to the "Tua" haters - LOLA teams record is on the team, not 1 player.
It’s not that hard? Browns stacked offense with skill guys that are difference makers. Try two of the best RBs in the league on the same roster. We can’t even draft one. WR and TE rooms also loaded. This is about talent acquisition and game changing skill level. We are pedestrian at all of the positions no matter how “good” we think we look on paper.browns have lost a lot longer then 6 years. Amazing how people on this board say we stunk for 33 years but now the browns turned it around in 6 years. They were terrible when they were brought back into the league. So it took around 20 years or more for them to turn it around.
Now how did they do it?
Great pass rusher
Great offense line with additions of veteran free agents like conklin
average qb that can do well on the move and play action
it is really not that hard.
Honestly we can sign veteran free agents on the line this offseason.
then tua or almost any qb like tannehill can do well.
not sure we can get a great pass rusher like mlyes garret.
Browns have had many terrible seasons since coming back in the 2000 year. they were terrible in the 90s too except for one or two years under bellicheck
They failed many more than 6 years
But they took those three things I listed above to turn it around.
I wanted conklin last year but we sign flowers and other guys we cut