What to do with X? | Page 8 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

What to do with X?

Kdawg954 said:
Would be worse for the Dolphins, versus guaranteeing 2 years and adding some money to the entire contract.

NFL contracts are a leverage game. Miami loses all of it in a move like that.
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Yeah it's not something I'm actually for, just pointing out that him asking for more money isn't as big a deal to me since he has really nothing left that's guaranteed.
 
Dynastybuilder said:
Yeah it's not something I'm actually for, just pointing out that him asking for more money isn't as big a deal to me since he has really nothing left that's guaranteed.
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Yea for sure. Adding guaranteed funds in this situation is pretty much a given. The leverage Miami has is, no matter what, he is under contract for 4 years. We don't have to be bullied and at some point it can look bad on the player if he did decide to get unruly.

But yea you don't wanna have a sour relationship with your best player either and you don't wanna give the perception to potential future free agents and draft picks that become free agents that Miami isn't gonna look out for you if you do have a great year and earn that added security.

Like you said "it isn't a big deal", but it will be made that way by many that just don't understand the intricacies of the NFL and how these type of situations are very commonplace every single year.

I just really don't like the X slander I've seen when he has not even came out and said anything and has been very solid from a contract and business standpoint his entire time in Miami.
 
GeauxFins2020 said:
I am completely ambivalent to the system. Teams back out of contracts all the time. Its part of the system...you should stop acting like it's only bad when players want to renegotiate.
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I haven't said any such thing about it being one sided. I just want to point out that contracts are rarely broken by either side.

Give me one example of a team not honoring a contract, under the terms of the CBA, that didn't end up in arbitration, or court.

I'll await your examples.
 
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Do it in a guarantee or some kind of bonus
He's our best player so get it done
 
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Jimi said:
Do you have the stats on targets? Couldn’t seem to find them.
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This is the site I use:


You can tinker around with it, sorting by high and low in various categories by clicking the arrow atop each category. Of course, you have to wade through players at other positions also, like linebacker.

Here was the bottom line from 2020:

* Jones...73 targets, 60.3% completions allowed, 17.6 yards per completion, 10.6 yards per target, 5 touchdowns, 2 interceptions, 108.0 passer rating

* Howard...101 targets, 51.5% completions allowed, 13.8 yards per completion, 7.1 yards per target, 4 touchdowns, 10 interceptions, 48.3 passer rating

Obviously from afar that looks screwed up. The league was targeting the player with worse numbers in every category.

Howards numbers are great in relation to Jones. But once you evaluate other premier cornerbacks it's glaring that Howard thrives based on interception rate. That drives his passer rating allowed down to terrific level. Otherwise nothing is remarkable. That's why the league continues to target him.

Given sufficient targets, the two top cornerbacks category to category are Jalen Ramsey, and Jaire Alexander of Green Bay. Their numbers were very similar. I mentioned a few weeks ago that Ramsey's yards per completion and yards per target were each 40% superior to Howard's:

* Ramsey...71 targets, 50.7% completions allowed, 9.6 yards per completion, 4.9 yards per target, 2 touchdowns, 1 interception, 68.1 passer rating

* Alexander...80 targets, 51.3% completions allowed, 9.1 yards per completion, 4.7 yards per target, 2 touchdowns, 1 interception, 67.4 passer rating

Jaire Alexander is going to command a huge contract once he is on the market
 
Awsi Dooger said:
This is the site I use:


You can tinker around with it, sorting by high and low in various categories by clicking the arrow atop each category. Of course, you have to wade through players at other positions also, like linebacker.

Here was the bottom line from 2020:

* Jones...73 targets, 60.3% completions allowed, 17.6 yards per completion, 10.6 yards per target, 5 touchdowns, 2 interceptions, 108.0 passer rating

* Howard...101 targets, 51.5% completions allowed, 13.8 yards per completion, 7.1 yards per target, 4 touchdowns, 10 interceptions, 48.3 passer rating

Obviously from afar that looks screwed up. The league was targeting the player with worse numbers in every category.

Howards numbers are great in relation to Jones. But once you evaluate other premier cornerbacks it's glaring that Howard thrives based on interception rate. That drives his passer rating allowed down to terrific level. Otherwise nothing is remarkable. That's why the league continues to target him.

Given sufficient targets, the two top cornerbacks category to category are Jalen Ramsey, and Jaire Alexander of Green Bay. Their numbers were very similar. I mentioned a few weeks ago that Ramsey's yards per completion and yards per target were each 40% superior to Howard's:

* Ramsey...71 targets, 50.7% completions allowed, 9.6 yards per completion, 4.9 yards per target, 2 touchdowns, 1 interception, 68.1 passer rating

* Alexander...80 targets, 51.3% completions allowed, 9.1 yards per completion, 4.7 yards per target, 2 touchdowns, 1 interception, 67.4 passer rating

Jaire Alexander is going to command a huge contract once he is on the market
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I wonder how interception rate correlates to wins versus the YPC/YPT
 
Awsi Dooger said:
This is the site I use:


You can tinker around with it, sorting by high and low in various categories by clicking the arrow atop each category. Of course, you have to wade through players at other positions also, like linebacker.

Here was the bottom line from 2020:

* Jones...73 targets, 60.3% completions allowed, 17.6 yards per completion, 10.6 yards per target, 5 touchdowns, 2 interceptions, 108.0 passer rating

* Howard...101 targets, 51.5% completions allowed, 13.8 yards per completion, 7.1 yards per target, 4 touchdowns, 10 interceptions, 48.3 passer rating

Obviously from afar that looks screwed up. The league was targeting the player with worse numbers in every category.

Howards numbers are great in relation to Jones. But once you evaluate other premier cornerbacks it's glaring that Howard thrives based on interception rate. That drives his passer rating allowed down to terrific level. Otherwise nothing is remarkable. That's why the league continues to target him.

Given sufficient targets, the two top cornerbacks category to category are Jalen Ramsey, and Jaire Alexander of Green Bay. Their numbers were very similar. I mentioned a few weeks ago that Ramsey's yards per completion and yards per target were each 40% superior to Howard's:

* Ramsey...71 targets, 50.7% completions allowed, 9.6 yards per completion, 4.9 yards per target, 2 touchdowns, 1 interception, 68.1 passer rating

* Alexander...80 targets, 51.3% completions allowed, 9.1 yards per completion, 4.7 yards per target, 2 touchdowns, 1 interception, 67.4 passer rating

Jaire Alexander is going to command a huge contract once he is on the market
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This was very informative thanks! Aligns with what I felt I observed, Jones was targeted far less than X. Doesn’t mean there weren’t issues with his game, but they definitely went after X more. X just burned them for it.
 
artdnj said:
But the difference is terminology in the contract allowing teams to cut, get out, etc is transparent and known to parties when they sign. Teams can't just cut a guy without following the terms of the contract and many times still are on the hook for payment when they do so that's why many choose the large signing bonus upfront. Agents spell this out to clients so it should never be a surprise. Teams cant take back money on a injury laden year or if performance wasn't as it was in a prior year. X is doing what teams can't, period.

I am not against a restructure that includes incentives but to give him say top 3 money...that would be another 6-7 million a year and at his age and knee history it's a problem in my opinion. Let him make it but anything near a redo of 6+ a year needs to have some incentives built in. IMO I don't think he wants another 3-4, he wants to be paid top 3 which is between 18-21.We could help the team with that 6-7 per year and the odds of him duplicating last year is probably not that great. In sum, pay the man but not in the way he want's it after all all he did sign on the dotted line in a down year.
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It's transparent that you can't force a person to give you their labor if they don't want to work for you at a certain price too.
 
GeauxFins2020 said:
I disagree about players wanting to renegotiate or honoring their deal...you don't respect players because they signed a contract? The team signs it too.

It's a double standard by fans--and it's ignorant. Take Bobby McCain, for one. There is serious talk about cutting him--to save his salary. He's never complained, been in trouble, embarrassed the franchise. But I've never read fans say, "this is BS move by the team because they offered him a contract and should honor it."

Same for Albert Wilson.

Players careers are short. They have ten years or so (usually much less) to maximize their earning potential. And they are putting their lives and health on the line!

The Dolphins are going to be here long after we are all gone.

If Xavier and his financial advisors think he can get more money, they are within their right to try. The team can respond or not. Then Xavien can play or not.

It's just business.
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So when's the last time you didn't report for work because you wanted a pay raise after agreeing to work for a specified salary/hourly rate??

Thats some crybaby stuff.
 
When I try to figure out what Flo/Grier will do regarding players I ask myself what would the Patriots do. It’s very clear they are closely following the Pats model. That being said I think if X demands too much they will trade him to get the most return. An all pro CB is a very valuable commodity to a playoff team missing 1-2 pieces, but he’s been injury prone and his market value is at it’s peak. We could easily get a 1st and maybe more and attempt to get Surtain.
 
Mach2 said:
I haven't said any such thing about it being one sided. I just want to point out that contracts are rarely broken by either side.

Give me one example of a team not honoring a contract, under the terms of the CBA, that didn't end up in arbitration, or court.

I'll await your examples.
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:::sigh::: educating you is exhausting.

A player is only paid if he plays. Players can retire? Hold out?

Teams can cut players...the issue is guaranteed money, of course... but that's not the only aspect of the contract.

Whether or not we should re do Xaviens contract is debatable. His right to ask (demand) is not.

This isn't difficult.
 
GeauxFins2020 said:
:::sigh::: educating you is exhausting.

A player is only paid if he plays. Players can retire? Hold out?

Teams can cut players...the issue is guaranteed money, of course... but that's not the only aspect of the contract.

Whether or not we should re do Xaviens contract is debatable. His right to ask (demand) is not.

This isn't difficult.
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None of that had anything to do with breaking the terms of a contract.

Educating me? No need to be a prick.

Still awaiting those examples.....
 
Mach 2, GeauxFins2020 has been on Finheaven for only a matter of weeks. If he becomes a frequent poster here he'll see that we treat each other with respect at all times. You showed restraint!! ****y people that are never wrong are what's exhausting.
 
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