What we lost/what we've gained!!

[feelthepain]

Ok, seems to me some of the visitors and I hate to say this, some fin fans think we will finish at around 500. or less. And we very well may...however I'll go record now to say I think this team will be well prepared and hungry to prove last year was just a hicup!!

So here is something to look at and think about. I am getting sick of this piss poor view some trolls and and some fans have of this team all because of one bad season. We were and are far better then last years record. If we were a legit 4-12 team why would we have gone from a 9 win team to a 10 win team?? If we were really headed south wouldn't we have done it in a progression?? Ya know 11-5....10-6...8-8....6-10...4-12you get the idea.
Instead we go from an 11(01) win season to a 9(02) win season to a 10(03) win season to a 4-12(04) season. Those nubers just don't jive with a team on it's way down. And another reason I don't just base a teams ability on just one year. You can't get a feel for a teams ability's on just one season(Buffalo Bills).

This leads me to take a look at this up coming season. What has happend to this team since the end of last season. So read all the coaches and players that have come and gone since the last game of 04. I'll put a + sign anext to the improvement. I won't bother listing the asst. coaches too many even though I think if Saban chose them they will be above avg.


what we had thats not here now, here we go:

Coaches:

HC, DW
OC, C.Forrester
OLC, Who cares
DC, J.Bates

Players:

P.Surtain+
T.Bo
J.Fiedler
R.Konrad
S.Knight
J.Williams
V.King
B.Forsey
A.Freeman
G.Jerman
I probably missed a player or two but how important could they have been.

What we have now,

HC, N.Saban +
OC, S.Linehan +
OLC, H.Houck +
DC, Richard Smith

Players:

R.Brown +
C.Crowder +
M.Roth +
T.Daniels
A.Alabi +
K.Vickerson +
M.Wright
T.Tillman
K.Carter +
V.Holliday
D.Boston +
R.Williams +
D.Spragan
T.Jones
H.Evans +
S.McDougle +
D.Cook
M.Edwards
K.Traylor +
J.Glenn
L.Schulters +
G.Frerotte

and probably one or two camp bodys I did not add, now i'm not going to sit here and tell you every player on the list will make the team what I will tell you is Saban will use the same approach to adding players that BB uses. He adds players that will be the best fit for the position. And most likely the most versitile players on the list will make the final cut.

Still if you look at what is gone and what has been added it doesn't take a football god to figure the talent level here has risen a couple of notches some more then others and as for the coaching staff do we really have to compare the two staffs??

All I'm reading from the sorry *ss Bill fans every time we bring in a player is he's unproven, injury prone, drug addict, over the hill...yada yada yada!! But the reason they are saying it is because they have nothing to talk about. No upgrades, no improvements, no movement, nothing. Their best player added to the team is R.Parrish!! Thats it, PJ doesn't count because he was in the system but for some reason couldn't supplant the statue D.Bledsoe....hmmm the next superstar of the NFL could get in the lineup. Makes you wonder if he's as good as advertised. They lost several starters and a couple depth players. But here we are at the end of July and we are still loking, still adding, still subtracting. In other words tweaking!! Getting better with every transaction.

Look at the two lists above and look at the talent level in the two lists both coaches and players. Then being totally honest make an evaluation from last year to this. BTW the first list was full of players that helped the fins win double didgit wins 2 out of the last four seasons. In the last five seasons we were 44-36 under DW. With upgrades to the coaching staff and players there is no reason in my mind why we aren't only better then last year we are absolutley better then the Bills!!

Give some feedback and let me know what you think.

 

[Agua]

Thats it, PJ doesn't count because he was in the system but for some reason couldn't supplant the statue D.Bledsoe....hmmm the next superstar of the NFL could get in the lineup. Makes you wonder if he's as good as advertised.

Hehehe... well, to be fair, the guy didn't break the lineup because he broke his leg in TC last year.

BUT, since you say the things I like to hear, I'll give this post a :up:

 

[feelthepain]

Hehehe... well, to be fair, the guy didn't break the lineup because he broke his leg in TC last year.

BUT, since you say the things I like to hear, I'll give this post a :up:

Lets also be fair and say TO broke his ankle mid season and not only made it back, but was the best palyer in the Eagles lineup...even at at 90%!!!

 

[WILLIS21]

Ok, seems to me some of the visitors and I hate to say this, some fin fans think we will finish at around 500. or less. And we very well may...however I'll go record now to say I think this team will be well prepared and hungry to prove last year was just a hicup!!

So here is something to look at and think about. I am getting sick of this piss poor view some trolls and and some fans have of this team all because of one bad season. We were and are far better then last years record. If we were a legit 4-12 team why would we have gone from a 9 win team to a 10 win team?? If we were really headed south wouldn't we have done it in a progression?? Ya know 11-5....10-6...8-8....6-10...4-12you get the idea.
Instead we go from an 11(01) win season to a 9(02) win season to a 10(03) win season to a 4-12(04) season. Those nubers just don't jive with a team on it's way down. And another reason I don't just base a teams ability on just one year. You can't get a feel for a teams ability's on just one season(Buffalo Bills).

This leads me to take a look at this up coming season. What has happend to this team since the end of last season. So read all the coaches and players that have come and gone since the last game of 04. I'll put a + sign anext to the approvement. I won't bother listing the asst. coaches too many even though I think if Saban chose them they will be above avg.


what we had thats not here now, here we go:

Coaches:

HC, DW
OC, C.Forrester
OLC, Who cares
DC, J.Bates

Players:

P.Surtain+
T.Bo
J.Fiedler
R.Konrad
S.Knight
J.Williams
V.King
B.Forsey
A.Freeman
G.Jerman
I probably missed a player or two but how important could they have been.

What we have now,

HC, N.Saban +
OC, S.Linehan +
OLC, H.Houck +
DC, Richard Smith

Players:

R.Brown +
C.Crowder +
M.Roth +
T.Daniels
A.Alabi +
K.Vickerson +
M.Wright
T.Tillman
K.Carter +
V.Holliday
D.Boston +
R.Williams +
D.Spragan
T.Jones
H.Evans +
S.McDougle +
D.Cook
M.Edwards
K.Traylor +
J.Glenn
L.Schulters +

and probably one or two camp bodys I did not add, now i'm not going to sit here and tell you every player on the list will make the team what I will tell you is Saban will use the same approach to adding players that BB uses. He adds players that will be the best fit for the position. And most likely the most versitile players on the list will make the final cut.

Still if you look at what is gone and what has been added it doesn't take a football god to figure the talent level here has risen a couple of notches some more then others and as for the coaching staff do we really have to compare the two staffs??

All I'm reading from the sorry *ss Bill fans every time we bring in a player is he's unproven, injury prone, drug addict, over the hill...yada yada yada!! But the reason they are saying it is because they have nothing to talk about. No upgrades, no improvements, no movement, nothing. Their best player added to the team is R.Parrish!! Thats it, PJ doesn't count because he was in the system but for some reason couldn't supplant the statue D.Bledsoe....hmmm the next superstar of the NFL could get in the lineup. Makes you wonder if he's as good as advertised. They lost several starters and a couple depth players. But here we are at the end of July and we are still loking, still adding, still subtracting. In other words tweaking!! Getting better with every transaction.

Look at the two lists above and look at the talent level in the two lists both coaches and players. Then being totally honest make an evaluation from last year to this. BTW the first list was full of players that helped the fins win double didgit wins 2 out of the last four seasons. In the last five seasons we were 44-36 under DW. With upgrades to the coaching staff and players there is no reason in my mind why we aren't only better then last year we are absolutley better then the Bills!!

Give some feedback and let me know what you think.

1)Jp couldn't supplant Drew bc he suffered an injury in TC and wasn't healthy enough to play until half way thru the season.

2) Lost "several starters"? The bills lost 2 starters Jonas Jenings and Pat Williams.

 

[feelthepain]

1)Jp couldn't supplant Drew bc he suffered an injury in TC and wasn't healthy enough to play until half way thru the season.

2) Lost "several starters"? The bills lost 2 starters Jonas Jenings and Pat Williams.

That it after all the stuff you homers try to pass off as football knowledge, and thats it tisk tisk tisk what a shame!! :shakeno:

Aagin, on the PJ comment. A broken ankle didn't stop TO!!

 

[Agua]

Really and truly, I could see Losman becoming a pretty decent QB for them down the line. He'll struggle this year, like any rookie, but he's pretty smart, mobile, and had a good arm in college.

 

[HysterikiLL]

We didn't 'lose' Wannstedt...we 'gained' his resignation from the organization!! :-D

 

[feelthepain]

We didn't 'lose' Wannstedt...we 'gained' his resignation from the organization!! :-D

Good point, I should have chosen my words more carefully. Still you get the point.

 

[MDFINFAN]

OK FTP, let's look at your post, I have no problem with saying we added talent and good vets. This is why I hesitate to say we're going to do this or do that.

1. As you stated this is a new staff, learning what each player does
2. They are installing new systems. you heard the players talk about how thick the playbooks are, both O and D.
3. You can only install so much of the playbook before you blow your team away.
4. All the new players have to learn to play together and know exactly what to do base on the number of plays given them in the new systems.
5. Right now, the team doesn't know what it does best, and won't until real games, because PS they will be going against vanilla everything from another team.
6. Schedule plays a part in everything..we have very good opponents based on last year's record.
7. Every team in our Divison won't be starting from stratch like us, they are going over what they already know and adding to it. We're more behind the curve than they are.
8. We still have question marks at cb, OL, DT (even with our young guys doing well this week, it's a long season). There is ligitimate concerns about QB consistency, even though I think it's way overblown.
9. Expect the team to start slow and learn and get better as the season goes.
10. We don't know what injuries might occur and how that will affect this team.

Now having said all that, it's week one. It's the beginning of football season, everyone has a chance to be special and miami is no different. But until we established an idenity, we will have to be optimistically patient. We may have the prefect chemistry put together now, or missing a few pieces, but we won't know that until the season. For all dolfans....Here's to hoping for a special year.

 

[feelthepain]

Really and truly, I could see Losman becoming a pretty decent QB for them down the line. He'll struggle this year, like any rookie, but he's pretty smart, mobile, and had a good arm in college.

Oh I agree, I think Sam Wyche being their is gonna be a big help to PJ.
Still I can't help but think PJ will have a long road to haul before he sees any thing close to stable or dependable. He's no Marino or Tom Brady and never will be but he does have ability.

 

[CalDolFan10x14]

1)Jp couldn't supplant Drew bc he suffered an injury in TC and wasn't healthy enough to play until half way thru the season.

2) Lost "several starters"? The bills lost 2 starters Jonas Jenings and Pat Williams.

What'chu talkin 'bout Willis?! :D

 

[Dolphins2005+]

Pat Williams.

That's a huge loss. Don't act like it's not.

 

[jmpmstr]

I totally agree w/ the post!
BLUF(bottom line up front) Is that the fins win surprise alot of people THIS year! we're not gonna go 6-10. 7-9. we will compete for the division and wild cards barring key injuries injury.
Our talent level is better but I would like to compare current talent level to when we were a playoff team. I still like what's supposed to line up in a month over what lined up when we went 10-6 11-5.
Just to refute a few naysayers nobody in the league uses the entire playbook weekly! Game planning constitues how to attack your opponet exploiting their weaknesses (if they can't cover - we institute more passes, double route moves, call plays to set up big plays ect... and personnel determine that). This is why ALL of training camp is finding out about your own personnel. The preseason games that we game plan for will give you a look as to what we will look like in the beginning! When you have the personnel to exploit other teams and actually call plays to exploit the other team, you are successful or at least you stand more of a chance! We didn't even give ourself chances!
Everyone was excited last year because we had Boston to compliment Chambers and Rickey was coming off a downyear (1,300) yards. the defense was virtually the same!So hopes were high! Then well we know!

The Thansgiving day game was the dolphins at their best under the old regime but they could never develop that type of consistency.(Coaching is the reason for that! Coaches put players in positions to be successful players have to execute-run, tackle and block). We will execute and we will put them in a position to be successful! WATCH and ENJOY!

 

[feelthepain]

MDFINFAN wrote:

OK FTP, let's look at your post, I have no problem with saying we added talent and good vets. This is why I hesitate to say we're going to do this or do that.

1. As you stated this is a new staff, learning what each player does
True, but this is football and Saban picks players that are generally of higher intellect.

2. They are installing new systems. you heard the players talk about how thick the playbooks are, both O and D.

Sure and if anything this will be the biggest, hurddle, but once again Saban will keep the best suited players that are the most versatile. By adding players of higher intellect will make the transition less complicated.

3. You can only install so much of the playbook before you blow your team away.

Again true, but Minn. didn't use the whole playbook, and I' m sure the playbook will be molded around the talent and ability unlike the way DW would game plan and run the O. Ya know, make the players conform to the play instead of the play conforming with the player.

4. All the new players have to learn to play together and know exactly what to do base on the number of plays given them in the new systems.

Once again, this is football, a QB is a QB a S is a S a LB is a LB...the difference is, and always will be coaching, and isn't great how experts like P.King think "Saban is one of the top five football coaches in the country"??
Pretty high praise isn't it?? I have read Shula and Marino utter similar type of statements. Not to mention Sabans colleagues at the college level. They agree Saban is an outstanding teacher,talent evaluator. All in all Saban is very well rounded.

5. Right now, the team doesn't know what it does best, and won't until real games, because PS they will be going against vanilla everything from another team.

They don't have to. It's only week one of TC. I wrote this to bring the focus back to the positives everyone seems to forget because all the positives have been stretched out over six months.However, write everything down and compare them and it's an eye opener. But every time something minor happens i.e. M.Wright crying....the trolls jump on it like a fat kid loves cake. So that prompted me to start this thread.

6. Schedule plays a part in everything..we have very good opponents based on last year's record.

Every year teams improve and teams decline, just because the schedule looks tough now, it won't stay that way. We will have to line up and play just like everybody else. The biggest difference in this year from last other then coaching and player additions is we will be a team tough to figure out. No more Vanilla O or predictable D, we still have a bunch of talent here thats been here, add to that the FA and DP and you can see why the potimisim.

7. Every team in our Divison won't be starting from stratch like us, they are going over what they already know and adding to it. We're more behind the curve than they are.


True and a valid point, however the Bills have a weak Oline with no improvements over last year. Thay have a rookie QB and no depth at RB. I'd say they are a team where luck will play the biggest roll in the outcome of their season. Far more then anyone in the division. If all the dominos fall just right there is a chance the team improves over last year there are just too many things balanced on hope.

The Pats have lost the most IMO, both starting LB's a hold out at DE the loss of both coordinators and the stress of mantaing the unbelieveable pace thay have been running. 3 SB's in 4 years. I won't discount them, because they are the world champs but they will take a step backwards this year.

The Jets will IMO be the best in the division this year and no matter what will be a tough contest for the fins. But with Pennington a lock to miss regular season games we might just face fe fe one of those games and the way he likes to throww Int's under the best of conditions I think we will spank the Jets if fe fe plays.

All in all, The AFC east is no longer looking like the best division in football.


8. We still have question marks at cb, OL, DT (even with our young guys doing well this week, it's a long season). There is ligitimate concerns about QB consistency, even though I think it's way overblown.

Every team has question marks again coaching is the key here, knowing your talent and their limitations. Then coming up with a plan that exploits their strengths and exploits the oppositions weaknesses. Like I said coachig!! Are you starting to see the pattern??

9. Expect the team to start slow and learn and get better as the season goes.

It doesn't take a genius to figure that out, thats a pretty bold statement!! Seems to me you're affraid to go out on that limb. It's Ok to be middle of the road on some things, but every once in a while try being bold it's ok to be wrong from time to time. Just ask any Bill fan they'll tell ya.

10. We don't know what injuries might occur and how that will affect this team.

This is a wash injurys will always play a roll, but the difference ONCE AGAIN
is coaching. The reason the Pats won 3 SB's in the last four years is BB bringing in players that can step in and fill wholes. These players were just asked to play their roll nothing more, it's not that hard to do when you have a coaching staff that understans the game of football.

Now having said all that, it's week one. It's the beginning of football season, everyone has a chance to be special and miami is no different. But until we established an idenity, we will have to be optimistically patient. We may have the prefect chemistry put together now, or missing a few pieces, but we won't know that until the season. For all dolfans....Here's to hoping for a special year.

 

[Agua]

P.King think "Saban is one of the top five football coaches in the country"??

Actually, the original quote right around the time of his hiring was "top five coaches, all sports, on the planet".