Whats going on with the CB INT's? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Whats going on with the CB INT's?

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SweepeR

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What happened wiht miami have leaders in the INT department? why has it died down tremendously? madison has 0 ints in 26 straights games i believe and surtain is gone. Last year with both, we still had 3 ppl wiht 1 int and NO MORE then that. WTF is going on? Madison use to have more then 5 as surtain did for a couple years. one year, we had all of our starters with 5 or more INTs. the year iwht walker i believe his name was. WHAT IS THIS! btw, i really lovvvved marion, iono why we let him go. the man was consistant and good.
 
Our corners are not good... I dont know where you have been but I guess you need it explained...

First off...
MADISON - Sam Madison is average at best now and is definatly a #2 CB now. He is very old and slow. His body cant physically react like it used to. The only reason he is able to even still start in this league is because of his knowledge of the game. He knows how to read plays, WRs and QBs so well that it allows him to still compete. However, he is NOT a #1 CB anymore and is far from being a "shutdown" CB.

Now, for the rest of them...
DANIELS - We currently have a rookie starting at the #2. Travis Daniels... and he DID get an INT vs the Jets. But he is not gunna come in and tear up the league (ala Dunta Robinson) He was a 4th rounder. He will definatly get beat a decent amount of time and not alot of ints. Dont get me wrong though, really I love Daniels. I got to watch him first hand at all of the training camps and immedatly realized he is special and was very impressed... but he is gunna take time to develop.

REGGIE HOWARD - He blows... dont expect a single INT from him this season because he is always atleast 10 yards away from the receiver that the ball is being thrown to. After already being demoted once, he may soon lose a roster spot...

With Will Poole out... the others are maybe as good or worse than Reggie... This is definatly the LARGEST whole on our team and how you dont know or understand this is beyond me. Where have you been? This shouldnt be news to you...

All we can hope for this season is for quick progression from Daniels and that maybe Saban can "coach up" the rest of the scrubs since that is his expertiece. And hope that we can get lots of pressure on the QBs via pass rush and bitzes...

Nasty

 P.S. - Lance Shulters has 2 INTs already... that puts him on pace to have 10-12 INTs this season which is rediculous...
 
people seem to believe INTs should come in droves for CBs... but the truth is, they are very hard to come by in today's NFL... especially for teams that rely on man-to-man and/or press most of the time...
 
nice post count Press... but i agree qb's are conservative and take what they give them. Unless we play jay fielder i dont think well get many picks.
 
I tend to disagree with your view on Madison Nasty. He doesn't have bad physical capabilites just below average. He is still a good corner. Not great anymore but good and if given the chance could earn a starting spot on most rosters in the NFL. But everything else I agree with.

Schulters, what a pick up!
 
Also Saban got T. Jones not expecting gamebreaking plays from him but sacks and a force at the LOS in the run game at SS, to the first poster. He isn't much of a playmaker.
 
Well, I sure hope we get Kiwaukee Thomas in there soon. I think with Kiwaukee and maybe signing Terrell Buckley for his leadership, this secondary might step it up. I would, however, like to see Reggie Howard get traded and bring in some more depth or a draft pick.
 
I think the problem we have is that we are playing Daniels out of position...Once Poole went down, that kind of changed what Saban could do...If we had Madison and Poole to hold down the corners, Daniels could be worked in at FS and move back to the nickel CB spot on passing downs...I think his natural spot would be better at FS than CB due to being a little slow, comparatively speaking...Madison's skills are declining and he is changing from the defensive scheme he played his whole career. He is not a great tackler, which Saban relies on his DBs to be. Usually, there is no over the top coverage. Int's usually are the result of pressure on the QB and offenses playing from behind...We haven't been very good at that, particularly the last two years for a variety of reasons.. The pressure on Plummer was very good and we got a pick...Daniels pick was "desperation" pass by the QB and should have been just batted down since it was 4th down, but no harm-no foul....Schulters 2nd pick, against the Panthers was a result of a good read on Schulters part and Jake telegraphing his throw to Smith, but that is what happens sometimes...The issue we have is that Madison is so-so, his best years behind him...he can still play, but will have breakdowns in coverage and has to control his composure some...Howard has really dissapointed me..he was a decent CB in Fox's cover-2 D for the Panthers but has not shown much here, however, he is the fastest CB on the roster. I just don't think he gets Saban's scheme yet. That is the only logical explanation for his playing so poorly, since he is capable of being alot better. Daniels is an up and coming player and just needs experience..the game is still probably running in fast motion for him..that's normal...He is a bit slow for a CB, but clearly understands what Saban is trying to do in the secondary and can just react naturally, whereas the rest of the DBs are still thinking during the play. That is one reason he is playing well. Jackson and (the other young guy, name escapes me) are very young and inexperienced. Saban may hesitate to put them in there, even tho Howard is struggling because it could backfire and they may not only play poorly, but lose confidence in themselves. They may get opportunities if a) we don't play as well as we have and tank the season or b) Saban gets totally down on Howard and puts one of them in anyways.

We need help, Madison needs replacing (this offseason), but could be a good 3rd CB for us, if he takes a pay cut. Danels will only get better, and the jury is still out on Poole...He showed flashes last year, so we just have to wait and see how he progresses. But I'm sure that CB will be a target either in FA or the draft...

As far as safety goes, I see Schulters being resigned..he has played well and is on a 1 yr. contract...Jones, I am not too enamored with, but he is playing decently in this D...he is also familiar with it so the learning curve has been short for him...Bell and Tillman are playing well and are decent prospects...
 
LarryFinFan I agree with you especially about applying pressure on the qb. Madison and Surtain in their prime were two of the best in the league, but they got alot of their picks because our Dline was able to get pressure on the qb forceing him to get rid of the ball before he wanted too. By not putting pressure on opposing quaterbacks, they will pick our defense apart.
 
PressCoverage said:
people seem to believe INTs should come in droves for CBs... but the truth is, they are very hard to come by in today's NFL... especially for teams that rely on man-to-man and/or press most of the time...
Click to expand...


Unless you have daunte, or orton throwing....lol


The truth is that last year was a mulligan on the INTs. Because teams could run on us they threw 100 less passes on us than the league average. Think about that...thats about 7 less chances a game on making the int. This also inflates your pass def ranking. Why throw when you can run it? You will see this a lot with defenses that get run on. Just look at the jets and the bills so far this year.

Bills-32nd against the run
1st against the pass
4 INTs-3 FUM
Jets- 30th against the run
5th against the pass
3 INT-2 FUM
Fins- 5th against the rush
21st against the pass
3 INT-3 FUM

These numbers are skewed however becasue the sample is not large enough yet. (only 3 weeks of data) But the basic trend is that if you can't run- you pass(against the fins) and if you can run-you don't pass (bills, jets). The thing that sucks is that teams throw less on the jets and bills, but they make more turnovers in comparison to the amount opportunities given.
 
nasty you make madison sound like total garbage. maybe he's not what he used to be, but he is not that slow and still has a lot of talent in him. he is just the #1 corner on this team now and there is a lot of pressure on him so ppl notice imperfectness more than when he had surtain to back him up on the other side.
 
the #2 CB usually get the ball thrown his way more offten than the #1, because the D is often double teaming the #1 WR.

more balls thrown his way, usually means more INTs. now that madison is the #1 guy, hes just getting beat.
 
also int usually require you to "Gamble". If you miss the ball the receiver gets 6. Its safer to just play the man and try to defend, if he catches it tackle him.

In years past the safeties played deep and ensured that if the CB gambled on intercepting and missed, there would still be some one there to make the tackle. This i snot the case anymore with the LB blitzing and the safties being used to cover the TE.
 
Does anyone know who has the better chance at getting int in the D that we play? I know some D's are designed to let safties make more plays than in others. I just wondered when I saw the highlight of the Schulters pick.
 
Nasty said:
Our corners are not good... I dont know where you have been but I guess you need it explained...

First off...
MADISON - Sam Madison is average at best now and is definatly a #2 CB now. He is very old and slow. His body cant physically react like it used to. The only reason he is able to even still start in this league is because of his knowledge of the game. He knows how to read plays, WRs and QBs so well that it allows him to still compete. However, he is NOT a #1 CB anymore and is far from being a "shutdown" CB.

Now, for the rest of them...
DANIELS - We currently have a rookie starting at the #2. Travis Daniels... and he DID get an INT vs the Jets. But he is not gunna come in and tear up the league (ala Dunta Robinson) He was a 4th rounder. He will definatly get beat a decent amount of time and not alot of ints. Dont get me wrong though, really I love Daniels. I got to watch him first hand at all of the training camps and immedatly realized he is special and was very impressed... but he is gunna take time to develop.

REGGIE HOWARD - He blows... dont expect a single INT from him this season because he is always atleast 10 yards away from the receiver that the ball is being thrown to. After already being demoted once, he may soon lose a roster spot...

With Will Poole out... the others are maybe as good or worse than Reggie... This is definatly the LARGEST whole on our team and how you dont know or understand this is beyond me. Where have you been? This shouldnt be news to you...

All we can hope for this season is for quick progression from Daniels and that maybe Saban can "coach up" the rest of the scrubs since that is his expertiece. And hope that we can get lots of pressure on the QBs via pass rush and bitzes...

Nasty

 P.S. - Lance Shulters has 2 INTs already... that puts him on pace to have 10-12 INTs this season which is rediculous...
Click to expand...


Your take on Sam Madison is just so far off base that I don't know where to begin...so I won't...:shakeno:
 
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