What's with the Hype with Vance Joseph??? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

What's with the Hype with Vance Joseph???

BenchFiedler

BenchFiedler

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Why is Vance Joseph different than Kevin Coyle?

He was the secondary coach for the bengals and 49ers. He doesn't have any experience as a Defensive Coordinator in the NFL. So what makes you believe he will be the best DC ever hired by the Dolphins?

What is his playbook? Where did he learn the 4-3 defense?

He will turn bronze into gold or diamond just because of his intensity as DB coach? Can he play that chess game with Bellicheat where Bellicheat will exploit our weaknesses and he has to make (halftime) adjustments?

I'm not buying the hype yet because I heard the same thing about Dan Campbell even Coyle when he was hired.
 
Nothin wrong with tempering expectations. Vance has his work cut out for him.
Coyle wasn't really a bad DC a few years back, when the team was mostly healthy. If injuries pile up, it's going to be interesting to see how he responds week to week.
 
For me it's the fact Gase hand picked him and he wanted to come here, and despite what you think of coyle Cinci has been pumping out successful coordinators and coaches more than any other team in the NFL.

IMO coyle was a good DC until it came time to get young cornerbacks in the system, that's when the system failed and they tried to simplify things to get the young talent on the field, which obviously was a disaster. When he had vets in the secondary, the defense was not bad.

This staff, lead by Gase and Joseph just seem to have a well thought out plan, and an understanding of what they need to succeed short and long term.

Your right though it could still completely fail.

But this is really the first time I've felt in awhile that the general manager, HC, and DC, are all completely on the same page and have a strong understanding of what each other needs to be successful.
 
It seemed like Coyle was not flexible at all either... How often did he make adjustments to the game plan to slow down the offense? Obviously the last couple years have been rough due to talent and injuries but come on man
 
Coyle got a top prospect when we drafted Dion Jordan and he totally failed to develop him as a player. In fact Dion became so disenchanted that he mentally escaped by taking ecstasy. Make no mistake, Jordan has to take responsibility for his actions. However, the failure of the coaches, and specifically Kevin Coyle to help to build the player's self confidence, reflects very poorly on him. It will be really interesting to see if Dion now applies himself to successfully play in the NFL.
I also recall Jared Odrick blowing up on the sidelines with Joe Philbin 2 years ago. There was speculation that the issue was the over-complicated scheme that Coyle was operating. At the end of the year, Joe promised that the Defense was going to be less complicated next year. However, Joe and Kevin only lasted 4 games.
We have talent on the Defense and our big hope is that Vance Joseph can do a lot more with the talent assembled. I expect that he will. On a scale of 0 - 10, I would give Coyle a 4. Joe Philbin banked on him and he failed.
 
Travis34 said:
It seemed like Coyle was not flexible at all either... How often did he make adjustments to the game plan to slow down the offense? Obviously the last couple years have been rough due to talent and injuries but come on man
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I think differentiates Coach Coyle from Coach Joseph. In the NFL, you need to be flexible, and succeed with what you got. The coaches that can do that, succeed far more then those coaches that need the talent to be exactly what they need to succeed.
 
Guy was wanted by the super bowl champion Broncos. They had that level investment in their defense, and Vance was their top priority. They were willing to give him that opportunity. He comes from a strong coaching tree, these Bengals guys keep getting picked and doing well (obviously Coyle is an exception). But if he wasn't a former Bengals DB coach people wouldn't be this skeptical. It's a lazy comparison for us to make though. There are no certainties but he is very well respected around the league.
 
The fact that he will change his system to fit our personnel is a good start. I cannot stand coaches that have a system they are married too. The GREAT coaches adapt to their personnel year in and year out.

That is why no one can figure out Belicheck. The guy has almost a revolving door on offense and defense. He adjusts to the talent, which is why he can trade great players and still be successful.

Gase has the same mentality as well. Love it!
 
right now u can say dolphins will win anyway from 6 to 8 game. from 2004 to 2015. a good coach and staff can get us to 9-7
 
I bit of skepticism is more than fair.
To Compare Dan Campbell to Vance is ridiculous since they are on a different level experience and pedigree wise.

It is impossible to predict how someone will do based on their Wiki pages.
But allow me to try and spin it.

Philbin's staff was loaded with a bunch of middle management lifers. Guys who toiled on the sidelines as positional coaches or coordinators at lower levels for years.
The chance that one of these guys was ever going to break through suddenly and operate on a different level was tiny. (Arians being a rare exception).
During Lewis' tenure lots of defenseive coordinators came and went and Coyle never once got tabbed for a promotion until his old New England buddy Joe Philbin got a job.
Kevin Coyle like most of Joe staff(himself included) should be page one of the Peter principle textbook.
9 years as Db coach for Cincinnatti and now back to his old job after being over promoted.

Vance, on the other hand has risen more quickly to the Db coach spot. And was already offered a DC(denver) spot last year. This is still a word of mouth business and some clearly marked as talent.

Whereas Joe picked assistants that he could identify with, old NE based positional coaching lifers.
Adam Gase picked coaches he wanted. Young, hungry and ascending guys.
Gase wanted Vance to be his DC last year had he taken the SF job.
 
One difference is that Joe Philbin selected Kevin Coyle. Adam Gase selected Joseph, who used to give him fits when they used to match up. Joe hire dthe worst staff in football.

Joseph was John Elway's #1 choice over Wade Phillips in 2014 but Cincy refused to let him go. I didn't see anyone other than Joe Philbin trying to recruit Coyle like that.

VJ is a former player.

Coyle was hard headed, lacked common sense, ability to relate to players, was not a teacher or a great game planner and lacked ability to adjust in game. He forced players to fit his scheme. Tried to make 3-4 personnel fit his 4-3 scheme.

All we can hope is that VJ is what his reputation says he is....

I wonder if people in NY are excited about Ben McAdoo or Philly about Doug Pederson? Tampa about Dirk Koetter? LOL

Personally I have no buyers remorse when comparing Gase to Hue Jackson or anyone else.
 
spiketex said:
Coyle got a top prospect when we drafted Dion Jordan and he totally failed to develop him as a player. In fact Dion became so disenchanted that he mentally escaped by taking ecstasy. Make no mistake, Jordan has to take responsibility for his actions. However, the failure of the coaches, and specifically Kevin Coyle to help to build the player's self confidence, reflects very poorly on him. It will be really interesting to see if Dion now applies himself to successfully play in the NFL.
I also recall Jared Odrick blowing up on the sidelines with Joe Philbin 2 years ago. There was speculation that the issue was the over-complicated scheme that Coyle was operating. At the end of the year, Joe promised that the Defense was going to be less complicated next year. However, Joe and Kevin only lasted 4 games.
We have talent on the Defense and our big hope is that Vance Joseph can do a lot more with the talent assembled. I expect that he will. On a scale of 0 - 10, I would give Coyle a 4. Joe Philbin banked on him and he failed.
Click to expand...

He didn't look like a top prospect to me. Had epic bust written all over him.
 
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