Why are the 2005 Dolphins underperforming the 2002-2003 Dolphins?

[SkapePhin]

The 2005 Squad appears to be on par with or above the 2002-2003 Squads in almost every area.

RB: Edge 2002.. Althought, 2005 is proving to have 2 monster RBs, to remain fresh.

OL: Push.
2002 is probably the best of the 3, but its slight... 2005 is better than the 2003 OL imo.

WR/TE: Edge 2005.. It may not show because of divergent factors, but the 2005 WR/TE corps is far superior to prior versions.

DL: Edge 2005.. While JT was a force in 2002-2003, this is the strongest overall group we have had in some time imo.

LB: Edge 2005.. Zach is playing out of his mind this year, and the youth infusion is helping..

CB: Edge 2002/2003.. Surtain made a big diff.. Even though Fletcher sucked worse than Howard imo..

S: Edge 2003..


So, that leaves us with two differences.. COACHING and QB.. I must say I cannot bring myself to believe it is coaching. Saban is far superior to Wanny in almost every regard.. There may be some questions as to wether you would consider Turner better than Linehan, but both have shown a propensity to call plays out of character for the talent.

That leaves me with the most glaring difference. QB. Face it, Fiedler, even with his limitations, is a far more solid offensive caretaker than Gus Frerotte. Fiedler's added mobility allowed him to supplement the running-based offense in ways that Frerotte cannot, and Fiedler, while just as innacurate on the long throws due to physical limitations, was far more accurate in terms of intermediate and short routes.

Conclusion. The Miami Dolphins have regressed at the QB position. I never would have thought it possible, but it has indeed come to pass.

 

[byroan]

The QB position is a given. But it also has to do with coaching, but not in a bad way. Everyone on the team is learning a new system. Some of our players had been in the same system for 5+ years and now they've switched.

 

[fishypete]

I agree. Gus is no step forward.

 

[Dolfan4life!]

I agree. Gus is no step forward.

His play is on par with the play of Ray Lucas, wasn't he on the 02 Fins team?

 

[AZfinfan]

two reasons, our defense is no where near as strong, and our qb play is weaker than before.

 

[fin13]

do you think our record will be better than last year?
we have R&R and the OL is better the D is missing Surtain so what's the problem, we even have Linehan last year we had a nobody.
This team has not improved from what I saw last year.

 

[fin13]

We use to blame Jay and Wanny now is only Gus.
You could never suggest that maybe Saban is being outcoached and Gus is his Jay.

 

[LarryFinFan]

The 2005 Squad appears to be on par with or above the 2002-2003 Squads in almost every area.

RB: Edge 2002.. Althought, 2005 is proving to have 2 monster RBs, to remain fresh.

OL: Push.
2002 is probably the best of the 3, but its slight... 2005 is better than the 2003 OL imo.

WR/TE: Edge 2005.. It may not show because of divergent factors, but the 2005 WR/TE corps is far superior to prior versions.

DL: Edge 2005.. While JT was a force in 2002-2003, this is the strongest overall group we have had in some time imo.

LB: Edge 2005.. Zach is playing out of his mind this year, and the youth infusion is helping..

CB: Edge 2002/2003.. Surtain made a big diff.. Even though Fletcher sucked worse than Howard imo..

S: Edge 2003..


So, that leaves us with two differences.. COACHING and QB.. I must say I cannot bring myself to believe it is coaching. Saban is far superior to Wanny in almost every regard.. There may be some questions as to wether you would consider Turner better than Linehan, but both have shown a propensity to call plays out of character for the talent.

That leaves me with the most glaring difference. QB. Face it, Fiedler, even with his limitations, is a far more solid offensive caretaker than Gus Frerotte. Fiedler's added mobility allowed him to supplement the running-based offense in ways that Frerotte cannot, and Fiedler, while just as innacurate on the long throws due to physical limitations, was far more accurate in terms of intermediate and short routes.

Conclusion. The Miami Dolphins have regressed at the QB position. I never would have thought it possible, but it has indeed come to pass.

While I question some of your thoughts about the differences between this year and a couple of years ago, and I don't know if the competition that we have faced compares, but basically you are right and your assessment of inferior QBing is right on. Fiedler was and will never be Marino, but he wasn't Ray Lucas either. The only question I have regarding this whole QB mess is whether Saban gave up on AJ too soon. It's a known fact that AJ was not a good practice player, but he showed some things in 2004, in a mess of an offense, with a much worse OL and no running game. As I have said before, there had to be more to his demotion to 3rd string after the preseason than just his poor play, afterall, I certainly don't think that Gus outperformed him during the preseason...All that said...the bottom line is we have Gus and he is far worse than Feidler, AJ, Griese, or even Lucas was (well, maybe not Lucas) IMO... Obviously Sage and Lemon are not ready for prime time players yet, so we have to live with Gus...

 

[fin13]

Larry I wonder on AJ too.
I'm sure AJ's attitude was bad after the fiasco last year and now Gus but what is scary is that Saban would have thought that Gus could do what he hasn't done in the last 7 years.
I can't beleive that Saban could be so wrong about a player.

 

[SkapePhin]

While I question some of your thoughts about the differences between this year and a couple of years ago, and I don't know if the competition that we have faced compares, but basically you are right and your assessment of inferior QBing is right on. Fiedler was and will never be Marino, but he wasn't Ray Lucas either. The only question I have regarding this whole QB mess is whether Saban gave up on AJ too soon. It's a known fact that AJ was not a good practice player, but he showed some things in 2004, in a mess of an offense, with a much worse OL and no running game. As I have said before, there had to be more to his demotion to 3rd string after the preseason than just his poor play, afterall, I certainly don't think that Gus outperformed him during the preseason...All that said...the bottom line is we have Gus and he is far worse than Feidler, AJ, Griese, or even Lucas was (well, maybe not Lucas) IMO... Obviously Sage and Lemon are not ready for prime time players yet, so we have to live with Gus...

I agree too.. I just dont understand why he didnt want to give AJ a legit shot DURING the season to see what he could do with a more stable offensive supporting cast, ie running game, etc. It honestly must have been something with AJ's temperament or personality that made Saban think he would not be able to get better.. I still think AJ had the tools and toughness, but he may have been lacking another intangible, like not being able to handle pressure effectively. People make a big deal out of pick 6s, but arent they just the same as any regular INT? The only difference is that noone is able to stop the opponent before they run the ball back for a TD.. I must say there is a bit of luck, or lack therof, involved in such plays.. Another thing that led to that was the play-calling, and the overall dissaray of the offense last year.. Most of the pick 6s came on short/intermediate crossing or out routes.. Alot of them were on the same exact play, yet they continued to get called.. I dont know, but I do know AJ was more accurate than Frerotte, thats for sure.

 

[phinfan2003]

We use to blame Jay and Wanny now is only Gus.
You could never suggest that maybe Saban is being outcoached and Gus is his Jay.

Shh!!! You can't say that around here. You can only point out the great things that Saban is doing. :couch:

 

[Sirspud]

Nobody was worse than Ray Lucas. And I think our defense and offense were both more capable of winning games than this year. There are a few reasons why we haven't this year, the main thing being QB play and lack of playmakers in the secondary. Madison has been average for years.

 

[VanDolPhan]

Why?

Our QB play was much stronger, secondary was much stronger, J.T. in his prime along with Ogunleye and a still playing strong Tim Bowens along with Chester performing solidly blows away this years D-Line.

OL was somewhat stronger and molded together tightly. Ruddy/Nails/Perry was a solid grunt work interior for this team.

 

[djfresh47]

The 2005 Squad appears to be on par with or above the 2002-2003 Squads in almost every area.

RB: Edge 2002.. Althought, 2005 is proving to have 2 monster RBs, to remain fresh.

OL: Push.
2002 is probably the best of the 3, but its slight... 2005 is better than the 2003 OL imo.

WR/TE: Edge 2005.. It may not show because of divergent factors, but the 2005 WR/TE corps is far superior to prior versions.

DL: Edge 2005.. While JT was a force in 2002-2003, this is the strongest overall group we have had in some time imo.

LB: Edge 2005.. Zach is playing out of his mind this year, and the youth infusion is helping..

CB: Edge 2002/2003.. Surtain made a big diff.. Even though Fletcher sucked worse than Howard imo..

S: Edge 2003..


So, that leaves us with two differences.. COACHING and QB.. I must say I cannot bring myself to believe it is coaching. Saban is far superior to Wanny in almost every regard.. There may be some questions as to wether you would consider Turner better than Linehan, but both have shown a propensity to call plays out of character for the talent.

That leaves me with the most glaring difference. QB. Face it, Fiedler, even with his limitations, is a far more solid offensive caretaker than Gus Frerotte. Fiedler's added mobility allowed him to supplement the running-based offense in ways that Frerotte cannot, and Fiedler, while just as innacurate on the long throws due to physical limitations, was far more accurate in terms of intermediate and short routes.

Conclusion. The Miami Dolphins have regressed at the QB position. I never would have thought it possible, but it has indeed come to pass.

You can compare players on the team, but it really does not matter because you left out an x factor which would be the improvement/decline of some other teams. You can look at the team and say they were better in 2002 but perhaps the rest of the league worse. This team is not that talented, good teams win road games vs mediocre/bad teams such as the Bills and Jets. How good do you want a team to be that is adjusting to new offensive/defensive schemes that lacks a #1 wideout and a decent Qb? The defense has regressed but has some young talent, the offense still needs a QB and a #1 wideout.

 

[chrome4]

The 2005 Squad appears to be on par with or above the 2002-2003 Squads in almost every area.

RB: Edge 2002.. Althought, 2005 is proving to have 2 monster RBs, to remain fresh.

OL: Push.
2002 is probably the best of the 3, but its slight... 2005 is better than the 2003 OL imo.

WR/TE: Edge 2005.. It may not show because of divergent factors, but the 2005 WR/TE corps is far superior to prior versions.

DL: Edge 2005.. While JT was a force in 2002-2003, this is the strongest overall group we have had in some time imo.
LB: Edge 2005.. Zach is playing out of his mind this year, and the youth infusion is helping..

CB: Edge 2002/2003.. Surtain made a big diff.. Even though Fletcher sucked worse than Howard imo..

S: Edge 2003..


So, that leaves us with two differences.. COACHING and QB.. I must say I cannot bring myself to believe it is coaching. Saban is far superior to Wanny in almost every regard.. There may be some questions as to wether you would consider Turner better than Linehan, but both have shown a propensity to call plays out of character for the talent.

That leaves me with the most glaring difference. QB. Face it, Fiedler, even with his limitations, is a far more solid offensive caretaker than Gus Frerotte. Fiedler's added mobility allowed him to supplement the running-based offense in ways that Frerotte cannot, and Fiedler, while just as innacurate on the long throws due to physical limitations, was far more accurate in terms of intermediate and short routes.

Conclusion. The Miami Dolphins have regressed at the QB position. I never would have thought it possible, but it has indeed come to pass.

You lie sir, 2002 was far superior with O-gun and Jt and TimBo and Larry Chester.