Why are we so impatient? | Page 7 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Why are we so impatient?

Kamelion4291 said:
This is an example where the "I'm being objective guy" stance falls flat on its face. Tua had a typical rookie season within the worst offensive framework in the entire league coming off an injury and having no offseason. THAT'S reality. 3,200 yds 64% 25 total TDs 10 INTs with what to throw to? What to protect him? What in the run game to take any pressure off? In my opinion he had a perfectly fine rookie season. He was being pulled from games when down three ****ing points. It wasn't like he was out there Sanchez'ing it up throwing 4+ picks. Are you looking at those numbers and really thinking to yourself, "Ooomph, that's terrible we need better"?

Charles Harris played on a defensive line that had Suh and a double digit sack Wake. He had guys taking a TON of pressure off of him that would make it easy for anyone, and he still sucked to the tune of 2 sacks so to say their seasons are comparable is disingenuous at best.

Look, I'm sorry that most of this board has a problem with realistic expectations. I'm sorry that you actually expected Tua, who was coming off the injury and had no offseason, to look "special". I argued with everybody back in the middle of the season that starting Tua was going to hurt our playoff chances because although Fitzpatrick isn't some playoff veteran, his experience was going to put him above a rusty rookie. I got killed for it, but here we are.
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Both can be true.

I, myself, have defended Tua with some of those exact same arguements, when someone goes extreme on bashing the kid.

I don't think my post was bashing. Do you?
 
Kamelion4291 said:
What one side am I?
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The give him time, he will be fine, there's no reason for concern. Physical attributes are meaningless. Everything was Chan, and the skills fault.

I have never seen you make a statement that you had any concerns about him.

Maybe you have.

It isn't necessary to always be insulting. I make clear analysis. Just because you don't agree, or find it incomplete, is no reason to call "half a$$ed".

You could just politely state the opposing arguement. It would make for more pleasant discussion.

I mean I'm not above throwing mud, but it's not my preference.
 
Mach2 said:
The give him time, he will be fine, there's no reason for concern. Physical attributes are meaningless. Everything was Chan, and the skills fault.

I have never seen you make a statement that you had any concerns about him.

Maybe you have.

It isn't necessary to always be insulting. I make clear analysis. Just because you don't agree, or find it incomplete, is no reason to call "half a$$ed".

You could just politely state the opposing arguement. It would make for more pleasant discussion.

I mean I'm not above throwing mud, but it's not my preference.
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I guess everything is based upon the starting point of expectations. If you expected more and he did not achieve that level, there's disappointment. He was slightly below my expectations, but so much around him on offense was broken that I just shrug my shoulders and worry about fixing the parts that were BAD before I worry about fixing the parts that were just ok.

With better talent around him, I expect him to take a big leap next season after a full REAL offseason that wasn't spent just doing hip rehab. If he still does not look to be the part, THAT'S when I get really, really worried.
 
Kamelion4291 said:
I guess everything is based upon the starting point of expectations. If you expected more and he did not achieve that level, there's disappointment. He was slightly below my expectations, but so much around him on offense was broken that I just shrug my shoulders and worry about fixing the parts that were BAD before I worry about fixing the parts that were just ok.

With better talent around him, I expect him to take a big leap next season after a full REAL offseason that wasn't spent just doing hip rehab. If he still does not look to be the part, THAT'S when I get really, really worried.
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In my particular case, he did exactly as I expected. I was hoping for more, but like I said before, my preference is the more prototypical, strong armed QB. The concerns I had originally are still apparent, and will be until he proves he can overcome his physical limitations. Absolutely it is possible. Others have done it, but it is the exception, not the rule.

Until I see otherwise, I have to go with the rule. That's nothing personal against TT.
 
Mach2 said:
In my particular case, he did exactly as I expected. I was hoping for more, but like I said before, my preference is the more prototypical, strong armed QB. The concerns I had originally are still apparent, and will be until he proves he can overcome his physical limitations. Absolutely it is possible. Others have done it, but it is the exception, not the rule.

Until I see otherwise, I have to go with the rule. That's nothing personal against TT.
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Probably where this headbutting comes from because I'm not a prototypical strong armed QB guy. I prefer the cerebral, accurate type with an arm that's just good enough to make NFL throws as I think it's more consistent. Brady, Brees, and Peyton.

This is what I was signing up for with Tua so it was never about "overcoming" any physical limitations because I don't actually think those are limitations. I think you'll see more arm strength in 2021 as he gets further away from the injury.
 
Mach2 said:
Meh, I don't know that Herbert's numbers has anything to do with it, in most ppls view.

You hit the nail on the head for some, when you said he was "typical". He was purported to be special, not typical, and the specific areas in which he supposedly excelled should have shown out.

There are also others that wanted a more prototypical QB. Bigger, stronger and, in todays game, faster. Ppl of this belief, such as myself, are going to be from Missouri, until he actually does it.

I'm sorry, ppl are not going to like this, butTua is no different than Charles Harris after his rookie season at this point. High draft choice that has yet to justify his lofty status. You can play "whatabout" all you want. That statement is a basic reality.

Harris never did, Tua still can, though I think average NFL QB is more likely.
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Peyton Mannin was regarded quite high, his rookie season was far from special A lot of your tops qbs did not have special rookie seasons be developed to be better the next season and on. Seems more take a little time than come in like Dan Marino and Ben Roethlisberger, yet Herbert made the splash and Tua now stinks because of that. Bigger and faster can be overrated. Some of your biggest busts were in that type and some of your best of all time did not have such stature. Tom Brady doesn't have a rocket arm, while he's tall, he's certainly not broad built. Joe cool definitely didn't have that strong of an arm because until Tom Brady was regarded as the Goat qb. Just because a qb has special traits doesn't mean it comes out right away. He had a serious injury too, and just a year removed and was away from footbally for a long time. He had one of his best games vs arizone when Parker and Preston were playing and then Preston goes out. Starting Wrs he's often without. Fitz did fine, but don't forget a veteran will not need as much help right away to a rookie learning the ropes. Pieces around a rookie qb is important. Another season and training camp and WRs can help Tua alot.
 
Kamelion4291 said:
Probably where this headbutting comes from because I'm not a prototypical strong armed QB guy. I prefer the cerebral, accurate type with an arm that's just good enough to make NFL throws as I think it's more consistent. Brady, Brees, and Peyton.

This is what I was signing up for with Tua so it was never about "overcoming" any physical limitations because I don't actually think those are limitations. I think you'll see more arm strength in 2021 as he gets further away from the injury.
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it was still not bad either. There was a gif someone showed that miami WR dropped a beautiful deep ball pass "of course" right in his hands. And was 50 yards? but it wasn't just one that lofts in the air and falls into the hands like some qb throw deep passes. It got into the dudes hands in pretty quick time which showed good velocity to me, It was vs the Bengals. So I think about that and then another season to strength train and condition his hip as well as more time of healing his hip. There will be better zip too. People talk about arm strength or good arm passing but more often zip comes from the hip and throwing form for qbs. So a hip and full health is important to maximize deep passing and velocity
 
Many times, I think we get caught up in the debate of big and strong vs. cool and cerebral...

I don't want much... I just want a guy who is both of those things.

...and that's why I lean to guys with a better structural set than Tua... because he'll never be both. His target is Drew Brees and that would be GREAT... but a bigger, stronger QB who was both would be better.
 
BlueFin said:
I can only speak for myself...Tua doesn’t pass the eye test for me.

I hope I’m wrong, I pushed for Herbert on here last year for the very reasons I still lack faith in him.
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I agree. He doesn't for ne either. Whats that thing Parcells used to say, "if they don't bite as pups..."

I hope he will improve. I think he might. I know he better.
 
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