Why can't we cover the tight ends

[phintim]

Just looking for a little feedback on why our defense cannot shut down a tight end. We are half way through the season the problem still exsists and has definitly cost us some games and almost cost us the one against Tampa Bay. It has to be the players or the scheme. Vote and post away please.

 

[oasis]

It is the scheme. Everyone likes to say that the players suck, but at the NFL level, nobody sucks. It's just about using the personnel correctly to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses.

The FO's mistake at safety was having two clones in Bell and Wilson. They are basically the same player - both excellent at stopping the run, coverage skills and ball-hawking lacking.

At LB, our guys are just not that good in coverage. When you look for big guys that stuff the run, you're going to end up with guys that can't run with speedier or more athletic TEs. A safety who is good in pass coverage could mask this.

Now I am sure there are defensive schemes that could be used to better mask these deficiencies...perhaps more of a zone-based defense. We switch to a zone occasionally, but we don't do it well. Our defensive philosophy is a man-to-man win your battles kind of thing. We don't have LBs or safeties that can really consistently win those battles, but we aren't about to change our core philosophies on D either.

 

[PassRush]

Simple, we have played some great tight ends this season. Tight ends, by nature, are big, physical and hard to bring down. Meanwhile our safetys are not strong tacklers in the open field. At the same time, our linebackers are poor at best in coverage.

 

[Rich22]

It is the scheme. Everyone likes to say that the players suck, but at the NFL level, nobody sucks. It's just about using the personnel correctly to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses.

The FO's mistake at safety was having two clones in Bell and Wilson. They are basically the same player - both excellent at stopping the run, coverage skills and ball-hawking lacking.

At LB, our guys are just not that good in coverage. When you look for big guys that stuff the run, you're going to end up with guys that can't run with speedier or more athletic TEs. A safety who is good in pass coverage could mask this.

Now I am sure there are defensive schemes that could be used to better mask these deficiencies...perhaps more of a zone-based defense. We switch to a zone occasionally, but we don't do it well. Our defensive philosophy is a man-to-man win your battles kind of thing. We don't have LBs or safeties that can really consistently win those battles, but we aren't about to change our core philosophies on D either.

I agree with most of this. I don't think Wilson and Bell are the same in that I think Bell is a legit starter and makes plays and Wilson is at best a backup. He cannot cover to save his life! IMO our problem with the TE's is mostly around the LB's. Our OLB's do a terrible job chipping the TE off the line because all they do is pin their ears back and rush the QB. Roth makes a difference here. We have ZERO ILB's that have any shot of covering a RB or TE. No way! If we had a big time safety like Sanders or TP from Pitt maybe they make up for that but we don't.

I think PP is not doing a good job at all of adjusting to his personnel because TE's are killing us still and we just played game #9.

 

[oasis]

Our OLB's do a terrible job chipping the TE off the line because all they do is pin their ears back and rush the QB.

Which would be totally fine if they actually generated a pass rush regularly!

 

[Uruguayfinfan]

IMO i blame schemes. We blitz a lot and zones are harder to cover, or man to man matchups get hard if the TE is a good one.

 

[Rev Kev]

We need ILB with range - that's speed..., and a nose for the ball - intangibles not everyone can be coached up..., they have to be able to intimidate..., and make the offense worry about about getting hit..., not just make shoe string tackles - yes I'm calling you out Crowder... You are non of the above...

 

[skipp2myloo13]

I agree. The schemes can only take mediocre players so far. We get no pressure on the QB even when we blitz. Our rook CB's (and Allen when he was alive) actually had pretty decent coverage, forcing the check downs. The ILB's cant cover, they dont have the speed to get to their spots and when they do they cant keep up with the killer crossing routes. The safties bite very easily and are in poor position consistantly. They suck at breaking up passes and are more concerned with knocking someone out with a hit to make up for the previous blown coverage. TE kill because that menacing hit they (Wilson) tries to lay wont work on a MAN strong TE and he falls off.

 

[The Furminister]

I blame lack of talent, Crowder and Wilson can't cover for their life

 

[Rev Kev]

I agree. The schemes can only take mediocre players so far. We get no pressure on the QB even when we blitz. Our rook CB's (and Allen when he was alive) actually had pretty decent coverage, forcing the check downs. The ILB's cant cover, they dont have the speed to get to their spots and when they do they cant keep up with the killer crossing routes. The safties bite very easily and are in poor position consistantly. They suck at breaking up passes and are more concerned with knocking someone out with a hit to make up for the previous blown coverage. TE kill because that menacing hit they (Wilson) tries to lay wont work on a MAN strong TE and he falls off.

good call

 

[tical]

to be honest I'm more surprised that's it not a problem league-wise, covering a TE is one of the most difficult match ups here's why

*typically a DB will get help from safeties in covering a WR , cover 2, under zone etc..so essentially the DB most-times has help!

what help does a LB or safety have covering a TE? I think its fair to say TE's are starting to have the speed of Slow WR's with size and power! Essentially your trying to cover that 1 one 1.

You have to play The TE honestly, in other words if you cheat on a crossing-route for example! and he goes the other way or cut it up-field(see Graham, patriots!) your screwed!! Typically they square up their big-bodies, the balls already in the air by the time you react its already there!

Obviously with the size, speed, momentum it's easy to miss tackles if your not careful, especially considering your doing it solo to begin with!

Final thoughts i laugh at people that want to draft spikes! he may be a run stuffer but the guy is slow, how is he gonna cover any of the TE's we've face thus far? and wasn't crowder heralded like spikes while at uf?

 

[miamiron]

I agree with most of this. I don't think Wilson and Bell are the same in that I think Bell is a legit starter and makes plays and Wilson is at best a backup. He cannot cover to save his life!

If you go by stats then your wrong about Gibral cannot cover to save his life...a matter of fact the numbers say Bell is playing worst of the two versus the pass

Wilson-535 snaps
thrown at 21 times with 13 receptions for 149 yards
Wilson has allowed 0 passing tds...QB rating against..83.2

Bell-521 snaps
thrown at 35 times with 22 receptions for 261 yards:err:
Bell has allowed 2 passing tds..QB rating against..104.6:boohoo:

Opposing teams target Bell almost twice as much as WilsonGotta be a reason for that...Bell has allowed more receptions,more yards per reception,more total yards and has a worse QB rating defending the pass

Wilson is playing a new position and has had a far better season than Bell versus the pass according to the stats.


If you want to bring in versus the run then Wilson with his 7 missed tackles vs 1 for Bell...or Bell with 1/2 sack more than Wilson...or Bell with 6 more tackles all season then the slight edge would go to Bell

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Both.

I watched the Indy game and could not understand how they could give Clark a free release from the line of scrimmage all game. Our LBs are too slow to cover TEs.

 

[truedolfan57]

It is the scheme. Everyone likes to say that the players suck, but at the NFL level, nobody sucks. It's just about using the personnel correctly to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses.

The FO's mistake at safety was having two clones in Bell and Wilson. They are basically the same player - both excellent at stopping the run, coverage skills and ball-hawking lacking.

At LB, our guys are just not that good in coverage. When you look for big guys that stuff the run, you're going to end up with guys that can't run with speedier or more athletic TEs. A safety who is good in pass coverage could mask this.

Now I am sure there are defensive schemes that could be used to better mask these deficiencies...perhaps more of a zone-based defense. We switch to a zone occasionally, but we don't do it well. Our defensive philosophy is a man-to-man win your battles kind of thing. We don't have LBs or safeties that can really consistently win those battles, but we aren't about to change our core philosophies on D either.

it sounds like to me, it's both. not just the scheme. even if miami switched more to a zone, you stated that our safties and LB's aren't very good in coverage anyway.

Personally, i think it's a player issue more times than not. they really do suck as pass defense. they bite on play fakes and can't keep up with good TE's.

 

[miami71]

Cause Crowder stinks!!! Does anybody know if this guy has a single int in what his 4 or 5 years?