why exactly does mckinney suck? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

why exactly does mckinney suck?

thecoordinator

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everyone dogs seth, myself included, because he's pretty much sucked to this point. but what exactly are his weaknesses? from what i've seen and heard, he's smart enough to call the assignments, and is very athletic for a big man. i think he's just not strong enough to even hold his ground inside. forget about getting a push, im talking about just holding his ground. the bigger, more physical DTs toss him around like a rag doll. so, with that said, if he has skills and ability, but is only lacking strength, can't we get him on a serious workout program to add the strength necessary to battle inside? i'm not sure how much more weight his frame can take, or how much stronger he can get, but we did resign him this offseason, right? so the coaches saw something. perhaps he can bulk up and become more physical and develop into a solid center. just trying to be optimisitic here, because right now we have nothing else. what do you guys think?
 

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Misses alot of blocks...isnt really that sound of a player

I think his natural position is guard but we moved him to center once ruddy left...has never really shown he can be a starter but was pinpointed in cause hes the best we got
 

phinscounter

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Buddwalk said:
Misses alot of blocks...isnt really that sound of a player

I think his natural position is guard but we moved him to center once ruddy left...has never really shown he can be a starter but was pinpointed in cause hes the best we got

:yeahthat:
 

painnotpleasure

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Buddwalk said:
Misses alot of blocks...isnt really that sound of a player

I think his natural position is guard but we moved him to center once ruddy left...has never really shown he can be a starter but was pinpointed in cause hes the best we got
I agree man. He misses a lot of blocks, he's not a good play caller which is really important on the O-line. Tim Ruddy on the

I agree man. Seth does miss a lot of blocks and is a pretty below average play caller at that. Center is an important (especially for us because we're in need of one) because we need a smart player who could make play calls much like we had in Tim Ruddy. He wasn't the best blocker, and he lost a step or two towards to the end of his career but he was a great play caller. Never realized how much he meant to our offensive line until he was gone. I've been in favor of cutting Seth McKinney for a long time, but if we do end up keeping him I think we would be much better suited at G (possibly RG, maybe backup or possibly just back up Center). I think we would be better off with Rex Hadnot or possibly Wade Smith starting at Center. Whomever Houck feels is best.

Also Seth hasn't even come close to living up to his potential from when we got him in the 3rd round. I'm hoping if he stays around Houck, could improve his performance substancially. I never felt that Seth was good enough to be starting material, and I firmly believe that until proven otherwise. Also... he SWEATS.... A LOT. I'm paraphrasing this, but I believe the best animal that Seth could be compared to would be a HOG... and if that's case expect Matt Roth to manhandle him in practice. :D
 

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thecoordinator said:
everyone dogs seth, myself included, because he's pretty much sucked to this point. but what exactly are his weaknesses? from what i've seen and heard, he's smart enough to call the assignments, and is very athletic for a big man. i think he's just not strong enough to even hold his ground inside. forget about getting a push, im talking about just holding his ground. the bigger, more physical DTs toss him around like a rag doll. so, with that said, if he has skills and ability, but is only lacking strength, can't we get him on a serious workout program to add the strength necessary to battle inside? i'm not sure how much more weight his frame can take, or how much stronger he can get, but we did resign him this offseason, right? so the coaches saw something. perhaps he can bulk up and become more physical and develop into a solid center. just trying to be optimisitic here, because right now we have nothing else. what do you guys think?

He most certainly is NOT smart enough to call the assignments. That was one of the main reasons he couldnt beat out Ruddy. It was even commented on by the coaching staff.
Then again, Daves offensive scheme and Tony Wise's offensive line coaching made about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine so who knows...maybe with good coaching and a system that makes sense, McKinney may be OK.
 

bakedmatt

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Buddwalk said:
Misses alot of blocks...isnt really that sound of a player

I think his natural position is guard but we moved him to center once ruddy left...has never really shown he can be a starter but was pinpointed in cause hes the best we got


actually, he WAS a center in college, and a very good one. he hasn't been good because we were playing a lot of man to man blocking and he just hasn't been able to anchor himself and keep his position. the entire interior line was a cluster**** last season, because they didn't know what to do. miscommunication between players, and unfamiliarity led to leaving interior DLmen and blitzes unaccounted for. he needs more strength and help from guards in order to double-team (and when they did double-team, they'd one or the other would abandon the block to early or too late. it wasn't simply mckinney missing blocks. that's silly.
 

bakedmatt

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yankeehillbilly said:
He most certainly is NOT smart enough to call the assignments. That was one of the main reasons he couldnt beat out Ruddy. It was even commented on by the coaching staff.
Then again, Daves offensive scheme and Tony Wise's offensive line coaching made about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine so who knows...maybe with good coaching and a system that makes sense, McKinney may be OK.


i don't think that's fair to seth. he's a bright guy. though it may not matter, he scored very well on his wonderlic test and was regarded as a smart player coming out of college. the team also called vernon carey too dumb to start last season. don't underestimate the stupidity of tony wise. he might lack lower body strength, technique with his feet, and familiarity with his guards, but seth is bright enough to handle line calls.
 

Fin Fan in Cali

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painnotpleasure said:
I agree man. He misses a lot of blocks, he's not a good play caller which is really important on the O-line. Tim Ruddy on the

I agree man. Seth does miss a lot of blocks and is a pretty below average play caller at that. Center is an important (especially for us because we're in need of one) because we need a smart player who could make play calls much like we had in Tim Ruddy. He wasn't the best blocker, and he lost a step or two towards to the end of his career but he was a great play caller. Never realized how much he meant to our offensive line until he was gone. I've been in favor of cutting Seth McKinney for a long time, but if we do end up keeping him I think we would be much better suited at G (possibly RG, maybe backup or possibly just back up Center). I think we would be better off with Rex Hadnot or possibly Wade Smith starting at Center. Whomever Houck feels is best.

Also Seth hasn't even come close to living up to his potential from when we got him in the 3rd round. I'm hoping if he stays around Houck, could improve his performance substancially. I never felt that Seth was good enough to be starting material, and I firmly believe that until proven otherwise. Also... he SWEATS.... A LOT. I'm paraphrasing this, but I believe the best animal that Seth could be compared to would be a HOG... and if that's case expect Matt Roth to manhandle him in practice. :D
Hadnot is the man. Also I think McKinney may have tried to over analyze, rather then just call what he saw at the line, and to adjust our oline accordingly. Hit the weight room, study more film, and work on his technique with Hudson Houck, and he maybe a better player. Maybe he needs to sit in there with Zach, and see what Zach is looking for to pick up some pointers!
 

djfresh47

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Seth was a very good center in college, I really don't know why he has not played well but with the other offensive linemen who have been drafted recently not living up to expectations I'm thinking alot had to do with Tony Wise. Seth was not a reach when drafted, he was a highly touted center, and it just has not turned out for him. I think this year will be his last chance to prove himself in a Phins uniform.
 

bakedmatt

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djfresh47 said:
Seth was a very good center in college, I really don't know why he has not played well but with the other offensive linemen who have been drafted recently not living up to expectations I'm thinking alot had to do with Tony Wise. Seth was not a reach when drafted, he was a highly touted center, and it just has not turned out for him. I think this year will be his last chance to prove himself in a Phins uniform.


well the reasons that people have been presenting for seth's lack of production have been odd.
 

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Athletically, he's never impressed me at all. I've watched line play, and usually the center, for 30+ years and McKinney doesn't display any of the traits of the best centers. You want someone with great explosiveness and leverage who almost appears to cheat on his own snap and then burst to the LB or turn a DT, instant advantage positioning. McKinney just snaps and struggles, like Ruddy before him. Maybe I'm just spoiled by Stephenson and Langer but our C play has been worthy of vomit for a decade+. Even Maewae past his prime dominates on occasion.

We need athletic beasts on the front line, not bargain basement clods or the dreaded fundamentally sound, i.e. overmatched, pickups. I love Roth but passing up Khalif Barnes at LT still astounds me. A combo of feet and a mean streak like that is almost never available in mid-2nd round.
 

bakedmatt

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Awsi Dooger said:
Athletically, he's never impressed me at all. I've watched line play, and usually the center, for 30+ years and McKinney doesn't display any of the traits of the best centers. You want someone with great explosiveness and leverage who almost appears to cheat on his own snap and then burst to the LB or turn a DT, instant advantage positioning. McKinney just snaps and struggles, like Ruddy before him. Maybe I'm just spoiled by Stephenson and Langer but our C play has been worthy of vomit for a decade+. Even Maewae past his prime dominates on occasion.

We need athletic beasts on the front line, not bargain basement clods or the dreaded fundamentally sound, i.e. overmatched, pickups. I love Roth but passing up Khalif Barnes at LT still astounds me. A combo of feet and a mean streak like that is almost never available in mid-2nd round.


hey that's a better assessment. one that i can agree with.
 

PressCoverage

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Awsi Dooger said:
Athletically, he's never impressed me at all. I've watched line play, and usually the center, for 30+ years and McKinney doesn't display any of the traits of the best centers. You want someone with great explosiveness and leverage who almost appears to cheat on his own snap and then burst to the LB or turn a DT, instant advantage positioning. McKinney just snaps and struggles, like Ruddy before him. Maybe I'm just spoiled by Stephenson and Langer but our C play has been worthy of vomit for a decade+. Even Maewae past his prime dominates on occasion.

We need athletic beasts on the front line, not bargain basement clods or the dreaded fundamentally sound, i.e. overmatched, pickups. I love Roth but passing up Khalif Barnes at LT still astounds me. A combo of feet and a mean streak like that is almost never available in mid-2nd round.

very well said... center is, in my opinion, the fourth most important position on offense... after QB, RB and LT...
 
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