DKphin
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I think Murray is the second coming of Pat White. JMHO.
Why Kyler Murray Can Be The Savior For The Miami Dolphins
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39wildman
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@39wildman
The biggest knock on Rodgers was coached by Jeff Tedford.
Probably goes top 5 if not for the stigma of Tedford QBs.
The biggest knock on Rodgers was coached by Jeff Tedford.
Probably goes top 5 if not for the stigma of Tedford QBs.
TrinidadDolfan
1st Team All-Pro
Disagree. Teford’s stigma is like saying Wake is a bum cause he played the the CFL
The stigma was that Jeff Tedford college QB's don't do well in the pro's. David Carr, Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller. It was widely believed by fans and tv talking heads that drafting a Jeff Tedford product at QB was foolish.
TrinidadDolfan
1st Team All-Pro
.
I hear you, but still disagree.
Bill Walsh, the ultimate QB spotter and developer, chose Giovanni Carmazzi over Brady.
Missouri QBs never amount to anything. Bad product. But Drew Lock will go high.
Sooo, I don’t put much stock into a QB being the “product” of their coach. While coaching helps, the true studs shine regardless.
Many schools with DISMAL records of producing NFL QBs, have had real QB stars:
1991 Dan McGwire, San Diego State
1994 Trent Dilfer, Fresno State
1995 Steve McNair, Alcorn State
1999 Daunte Culpepper, Central Florida
2000 Chad Pennington, Marshall
2002 David Carr, Fresno State
2004 Ben Roethlisberger, Miami (Ohio)
2005 Alex Smith, Utah
2008 Joe Flacco, Delaware
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I don't know what you're disagreeing with. What superphin is saying is a matter of historical record.
Do I agree with evaluating a player by virtue of his school, or coach? Absolutely not. But it IS what happened with Aaron Rodgers. That should not really be in dispute.
Dolphinitis
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saying that no MO QBs amount to anything is a generalization analogous to saying all OK QBs are running QBs
I'm not saying small schools can't produce good NFL QB's or even great NFL QB's, I'm just saying how people viewed Jeff Tedford QB's at the time and how that impacted Rodgers who was a Jeff Tedford QB.
Clearly the general consensus has been wrong since Rodgers is one of the best QB's in the NFL but at the time people were very much skeptical that he would succeed because he was a Tedford protege'.
Also I'm not saying it was my personal belief that Tedford QB's sucked....I don't think I had an opinion on the matter as I was a teenager during the early 2000s and was more worried about seeing some boobies.
Still a LONG way until draft day. Funny how the talent doesn't really change, but the evaluation of each person's talent on the board goes up/down like the temps before the day of actual draft. At this point, our FO should be going through the game films with a fine tune comb and not talking to anyone in the press about what we might do, smokescreen or not. I hate them, but teams like the Pats never share their thoughts on the draft, strategy or who they might be interested and they do just fine every year. Maybe our FO should learn a thing or two about that. KM is a hot item right now, but in month or two, I'm sure there will be a new popular flavor in the draft talk.
eger
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I like the kid, but not enough to risk a 1st only to have him renege and play baseball. We can't afford to miss this pick.
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39wildman
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if it was me as new coach I would draft qb this yr and maybe bring VET qb along with me as well. you cannot be scare to look for qb. and take chance on one. but try find one that is almost nfl ready or ready. if it don't work try again in 2 to 3 yr. we are not winning no SB until we find QB. So we better start looking now. hope we get luck and find one..
ckparrothead
Premium Member
It absolutely IS a long process.
For many, this process has been ongoing for a LONG time already, and thus the evaluations are just waiting for a few cherry-on-the-top type stuff, like a Combine workout, or the Pro Day workout.
For example, teams knew that QB Josh Allen was going to rate high for a whole year. Why? Because he was at the previous year's Combine, taking interviews with scouts and teams, showing off his great recall/memory, showing off his football IQ, impressing them with his character. The scouts could already see on 2016 tape what a crazy talent he was. And then they started to learn what sort of football IQ he had, and what sort of character he was, and that was a huge shoe to drop...and it dropped a year before he was drafted.
Some guys are like that. It's all opportunity driven. Some guys have been on radar a long time, are at schools that have active and healthy relationships with NFL teams, and so the due diligence process is able to be advanced far before we get into this time of year with the Senior Bowl and Combine, Pro Days, etc.
That's not Kyler Murray, unfortunately. He was drafted by the Oakland A's at #9 overall and he went ahead and signed that baseball contract for $4.66 million guaranteed. Teams MOSTLY wrote him off after that. But then later in the 2018 season they started to hear noise that Kyler Murray might choose football after all, and so when scouts stopped by Oklahoma to watch film, do interviews, etc, some of them did workups on Murray. But many more still didn't, because they still felt he was going to baseball.
Baseball has stunted the normal process, and so many of the things you hear "from scouts" anonymously in the media are still being said very early on in the process. The scouts themselves tend to all read from the same instruction manual (influenced heavily by Bill Parcells and George Young) when it comes to their write-ups and grades, e.g. if you're this big, you get this grade.
Making the tougher philosophical calls on how the game has changed and whether a game-changing player can survive at a certain height is much more of a General Manager's job. It's only natural then that you're going to hear about scout grades at one level, and then see Murray drafted above that. Was very similar with Cam Newton. When the executives and the coaches weighed in, Cam Newton soared to #1 overall on the boards of about half the NFL.
The shoe that I still think is going to drop that will drive Kyler Murray into the upper reaches of the 1st round is the same one that dropped a year early for Josh Allen. When you REALLY scrutinize the Oklahoma games, you see signs that Kyler Murray's INTELLIGENCE for the game, his COMMUNICATION with teammates, his MANAGEMENT of the offense, and his EYES before the snap, are just off the charts good. And thus I think when they sit him down and talk shop, they're going to be floored. Bob Stoops is retired but he says Lincoln Riley allows him to sit in on QB meetings, and he says that's the thing that strikes him about Kyler Murray every time. He's so god damned smart and he sees everything.
And once that shoe drops, that's when I think Dolphins fans realize they've not got a shot at Kyler Murray unless the team trades up.
For many, this process has been ongoing for a LONG time already, and thus the evaluations are just waiting for a few cherry-on-the-top type stuff, like a Combine workout, or the Pro Day workout.
For example, teams knew that QB Josh Allen was going to rate high for a whole year. Why? Because he was at the previous year's Combine, taking interviews with scouts and teams, showing off his great recall/memory, showing off his football IQ, impressing them with his character. The scouts could already see on 2016 tape what a crazy talent he was. And then they started to learn what sort of football IQ he had, and what sort of character he was, and that was a huge shoe to drop...and it dropped a year before he was drafted.
Some guys are like that. It's all opportunity driven. Some guys have been on radar a long time, are at schools that have active and healthy relationships with NFL teams, and so the due diligence process is able to be advanced far before we get into this time of year with the Senior Bowl and Combine, Pro Days, etc.
That's not Kyler Murray, unfortunately. He was drafted by the Oakland A's at #9 overall and he went ahead and signed that baseball contract for $4.66 million guaranteed. Teams MOSTLY wrote him off after that. But then later in the 2018 season they started to hear noise that Kyler Murray might choose football after all, and so when scouts stopped by Oklahoma to watch film, do interviews, etc, some of them did workups on Murray. But many more still didn't, because they still felt he was going to baseball.
Baseball has stunted the normal process, and so many of the things you hear "from scouts" anonymously in the media are still being said very early on in the process. The scouts themselves tend to all read from the same instruction manual (influenced heavily by Bill Parcells and George Young) when it comes to their write-ups and grades, e.g. if you're this big, you get this grade.
Making the tougher philosophical calls on how the game has changed and whether a game-changing player can survive at a certain height is much more of a General Manager's job. It's only natural then that you're going to hear about scout grades at one level, and then see Murray drafted above that. Was very similar with Cam Newton. When the executives and the coaches weighed in, Cam Newton soared to #1 overall on the boards of about half the NFL.
The shoe that I still think is going to drop that will drive Kyler Murray into the upper reaches of the 1st round is the same one that dropped a year early for Josh Allen. When you REALLY scrutinize the Oklahoma games, you see signs that Kyler Murray's INTELLIGENCE for the game, his COMMUNICATION with teammates, his MANAGEMENT of the offense, and his EYES before the snap, are just off the charts good. And thus I think when they sit him down and talk shop, they're going to be floored. Bob Stoops is retired but he says Lincoln Riley allows him to sit in on QB meetings, and he says that's the thing that strikes him about Kyler Murray every time. He's so god damned smart and he sees everything.
And once that shoe drops, that's when I think Dolphins fans realize they've not got a shot at Kyler Murray unless the team trades up.
Dolphinitis
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Ds are NOT drafting Murray