Why no O-lineman with the #1 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Why no O-lineman with the #1

dabeastdabone

dabeastdabone

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I think we can all agree that it is important to win the battle in the "trenches". But I'll argue that drafting a single player on a five man unit still leaves that unit no stronger than it's weakest link.

A few days ago a pro J Long poster, posted that the last two overall #1 drafted O-Lineman went to a combined bunch (11 I think) of pro bowls which is impressive. But to me that still doesn't say you draft a O-lineman #1.

Below I listed the amount of sacks given up by the Rams, who are Orlando Paces team (the #1 overall drafted lineman). These are some of the highest numbers in the NFL, maybe two years out of all listed are they outside the top 5 highest in the NFL, more often they are in the top 3. These numbers are combined (all QB's) because they have had injury issues with QB's, imagine that huhh? I also listed the combinded amount of sacks the Dolphins have given up the past few years just to show you one guy won't make that much of a change.

1997 44
1998 47 Sacks
1999 33 Sacks
2000 44 Sacks
2001 40
2002 46
2003 43 (31 for the fins)
2004 50 (53 for Miami)
2005 46 (26 for Fins)
2006 49 (36 for Miami)
2007 48 (42 for Miami)

Also note Miamis sacks dipped to 26 in 2005, I'll go as far as saying we can credit that to the only good QB play we have had in YEARS (that was ferrotte). Also I think 2006 could be about 7 lower for Miami, Culpepper caused more of those then the line should be blamed for.

I'm not arguing any single good lineman isn't a good pickup but I am arguing any single one wont make a huge impact.

I still believe that the biggest impact guys we can get are McFadden or Ryan. As I have stated I am OK with Beck but really don't wont to see us waste a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a QB that probably wont cut it as a starter anyway, to me that's just another wasted pick. either Beck is good enough or not good enough.
 
you know Pace has been injured a lot the last few year right?
 
Its simple this year we have a deep draft class when it comes to Guards and Tackles. I'd hope we get chris long then an OT and with our 2nd 2 get a wr and in the 3rd get a TE. Beck needs help and and ot wr and te would help him alot.
 
id like to trade down a couple and still get jake long
 
L2theT said:
id like to trade down a couple and still get jake long
Click to expand...

A couple meaning one right?

Atlanta will RUN the ball next year, and they LOVE Jake Long . . . they definitely wont get past him . . . and may not get past St. Louis either . . . though I hear they are infatuated with Chris Long.
 
dabeastdabone said:
I think we can all agree that it is important to win the battle in the "trenches". But I'll argue that drafting a single player on a five man unit still leaves that unit no stronger than it's weakest link.

A few days ago a pro J Long poster, posted that the last two overall #1 drafted O-Lineman went to a combined bunch (11 I think) of pro bowls which is impressive. But to me that still doesn't say you draft a O-lineman #1.

Below I listed the amount of sacks given up by the Rams, who are Orlando Paces team (the #1 overall drafted lineman). These are some of the highest numbers in the NFL, maybe two years out of all listed are they outside the top 5 highest in the NFL, more often they are in the top 3. These numbers are combined (all QB's) because they have had injury issues with QB's, imagine that huhh? I also listed the combinded amount of sacks the Dolphins have given up the past few years just to show you one guy won't make that much of a change.

1997 44
1998 47 Sacks
1999 33 Sacks
2000 44 Sacks
2001 40
2002 46
2003 43 (31 for the fins)
2004 50 (53 for Miami)
2005 46 (26 for Fins)
2006 49 (36 for Miami)
2007 48 (42 for Miami)

Also note Miamis sacks dipped to 26 in 2005, I'll go as far as saying we can credit that to the only good QB play we have had in YEARS (that was ferrotte). Also I think 2006 could be about 7 lower for Miami, Culpepper caused more of those then the line should be blamed for.

I'm not arguing any single good lineman isn't a good pickup but I am arguing any single one wont make a huge impact.

I still believe that the biggest impact guys we can get are McFadden or Ryan. As I have stated I am OK with Beck but really don't wont to see us waste a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a QB that probably wont cut it as a starter anyway, to me that's just another wasted pick. either Beck is good enough or not good enough.
Click to expand...

First off, u are kidding your self if u think sacks is the only factor in figuring out OLine performance . . . alot of times QB's hold on to the ball too much and make the OLine less effective . . . some teams have more mobile QB's . . . meaning less sacks. Sacks given up is one factor of Many in figuring out a successful OLine. Hasn't St. Louis had a FANTASTIC running game since Pace came in.

Also isn't your argument flawed when u say the OLine is only as strong as its weakest link . . . . doesn't drafting Jake Long ELIMINATE a potential weak link in Julius Wilson . . . making the overall line stronger? That line inturn improves the passing game and the running game. Ryan and Mcfadden do us no good if there are no holes and no protection.
 
The Rams are probably the team who went through the air the most in the last decade, when your quarterback throws 40 times 16 games a year during 10 seasons, you are bound to put up those kinda numbers in pass pro... not to mention that Pace was the only elite player on that front if you ask me... so basically your comparison is worthless, good effort though ... if you ask me, a good OT would be very usefull for our team, especially since our FB can't pass pro and Ronnie is always catching balls outta the backfield ... of course we also have to create room for ronnie between the tackles... i'm not a jake long Homer but taking him is definitely a possibility
 
Kdawg954 said:
First off, u are kidding your self if u think sacks is the only factor in figuring out OLine performance . . . alot of times QB's hold on to the ball too much and make the OLine less effective . . . some teams have more mobile QB's . . . meaning less sacks. Sacks given up is one factor of Many in figuring out a successful OLine. Hasn't St. Louis had a FANTASTIC running game since Pace came in.

Also isn't your argument flawed when u say the OLine is only as strong as its weakest link . . . . doesn't drafting Jake Long ELIMINATE a potential weak link in Julius Wilson . . . making the overall line stronger? That line inturn improves the passing game and the running game. Ryan and Mcfadden do us no good if there are no holes and no protection.
Click to expand...

No, they haven't had a "fantastic" running game. A good running game, yes. A couple years Faulk had 5th highest in the NFL. His highest was 1382 yards (compare that to Rickys 1853 in 2002). Of course Faulk was a great all around back and one I hope McFadden compares with, but I'll give that to Faulk. he had all that before Pace or Faulk were even Rams.

I'm not going to argue "intangibles" like holding the ball or mobile QB's because that's just a wildcard that can be played either pro your point OR pro mine, and their is no way of proving either right.

And the thinking isn't flawed. You will always have a weakest link no matter what. Of course we could draft all, and spend 75% of our salary on the offensive line then you might get a guarantee. We can still upgrade a "julius Wilson" with a 2nd round or later pic, or free agency. My point is don't use a first.

I know the argument will come up "the rams pass more" so here are those stats:

2007 574/558
2006 592/591
2005 599/556
2004 580/586
2003 600/450 (Our Ricky offense)

So, the Fins have, believe it or not, passed almost the same over four of the five years I compared the two in the previous post. You wouldn't know it though because the passing was ineffective.
 
I dug up a few more things to ponder. The best offensive line we have seen in the last 30 years or so is the 90's Cowboys:

Stepnoski 3rd roud 57 overall.
Eric Williams 3rd round #70 overall
Nate Newton Came from the American Football League Tampa Bay Bandits.
Mark Tuinei Was a Rookie Free Agent

As you can see none of these guys were even close to 1st round guys and more notable two were undrafted.

I stand by all these facts in saying picking an O-lineman in the 1st is insane and won't help a thing.
 
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