Why Not Draft Lamar Jackson?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Tannchise, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. 72 silky

    72 silky Well-Known Member

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    I want mayfield, if he’s gone I’d be happy with Jackson
     
  2. iwastherein1972

    iwastherein1972 Well-Known Member

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    Because he is not a QB, he is an athlete posing as a QB who is riding the hype/culture machine hoping for a big NFL salary. This has happened on numerous occasion and every time without fail, the EXACT same shills get in here and sing the praises of the next wannabe slash sort-of "qb".
     
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  3. gregorygrant83

    gregorygrant83 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I doubt it happens, but if Browns drafted Barkley and Jackson they would cause a ton of problems for defenses. They would see a lot of 8 in the box looks and it would give them some open looks in the passing game, not to mention the defense would be stretched a lot too. Not saying he's a fit in Gases offense, but Jackson will have the same impact on defenses that Michael Vick had. We're not talking about a Hall of Fame level pocket passer, but a player that you have to work hard to defend.
     
  4. kingfin23

    kingfin23 This is the Year

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    Dolphins ain't drafting a QB til the 4th round. Period
     
  5. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat Finheaven VIP

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    Unless you actually work for the Dolphins, I don't think you're all that qualified to make a "PERIOD" sort of statement.
     
  6. Csonked Out

    Csonked Out FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I don't like drafting QB's that have accuracy issues in college, it rarely gets better in the NFL. Luke Falk out of Washington State intrigues the hell out of me.
     
  7. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I concur with the first part of your sentence.
     
  8. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat Finheaven VIP

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    So...I can't believe I actually feel the need to do this:

    But I'm going to defend Lamar Jackson.

    Do I want him at #11 if I'm running the team? No.

    BUT...a few points:

    1) Those of you who compare him to Pat White either a) have not watched Lamar Jackson play, b) did not watch Pat White play, or c) have been smoking something illegal in most states. They're not even remotely the same player.

    2) It sure as hell to me looked like Lamar Jackson worked on being a more NFL-ready QB in 2017, and it might well have cost him for the purposes of Heisman consideration. More on this in a second.

    3) Lamar Jackson's skillset is so far above a "spread/option QB" it's not even funny. Even more, I don't think he's a mismatch for Miami's offense. In fact, I think he might be a GREAT fit.

    So last year, I watched Lamar Jackson. He was a QB who would run the ball as soon as coverage broke down. He was a tremendous athlete playing QB. When his first and second option weren't available, he took the hell off running. And I thought, "That's gonna get him killed in the NFL. He's going to be dealing with superior, faster athletes every single week at the next level. That's not going to translate."

    This year, he was a different animal. Are there still *some* accuracy issues? Sure. But it's not Tebow-esque. (Show me the numbers all you want. Completely different style of offense. Tebow could not, on his best day, make throws that Jackson does.) And what he did this year really impressed me.

    You know what he did? He used his ability to do something different than every other "run at the drop of a hat" QB has ever done, in my opinion. He used that ability to make defenders miss and *find more time in the pocket.* That is exactly what everyone under the sun has been clamoring for Tannehill to do, and this kid made a concerted effort to do exactly that in 2017. And he did it. It was pretty to watch.

    From all accounts: He has arm talent. He has leadership. He has crazy work ethic. He's a good kid.

    Now. All of this being said, his footwork drives me goddamn crazy. And it's not that he throws off his back foot so much as that he throws with his feet close together. All the time. It's a weird flaw, and I honestly don't know how correctable it is. If he can correct THAT? I think that in itself will help with accuracy issues. Throwing off a wider base will help balance and improve accuracy.

    All of this being said? I think his ceiling is off the charts, because he has specifically focused on being an NFL style QB. He's not my first choice at #11...but it wouldn't really piss me off, either. If there's ever a situation where a QB could learn as a #2 for a year or two...this might be it.
     
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  9. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat Finheaven VIP

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    Actually...now that I think about it...the best QB comparison I can think of is a faster, more elusive Steve McNair.
     
  10. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth Taggart is my Homeboy Finheaven VIP

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    He's got Mariota's legs and Bortles arm talent.
     
  11. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat Finheaven VIP

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    I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but Lamar Jackson has a better throwing motion than Bortles does, like, right now. There's nothing wrong with his throwing motion.
     
  12. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth Taggart is my Homeboy Finheaven VIP

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    But he is inaccurate...like Bortles and has poor vision....like Bortles.
     
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  13. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat Finheaven VIP

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    That remains to be seen in the NFL.

    And I have yet to see Lamar Jackson ever throw like this:

    [​IMG]
     
  14. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer Tape Guys vs Analytics Guys Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I think I'm the one who compared him to Bortles previously, and I stand by it. Great physical talent, really flawed throwing foundation, and questions about his ability to transition to NFL offenses. In fairness to Jackson, the issue with his throwing is more with his footwork than his upper body, so there's probably more hope for improvement there.

    Bortles went #3 overall. I don't know where Lamar Jackson will go, because maybe teams learned their lesson there, but I do bet he'll be better than Bortles.
     
  15. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat Finheaven VIP

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    Can you elucidate on the flawed throwing foundation? Because I'll stand by my assessment. The flaws aren't the same. jackson's throwing motion is far, FAR more compact. I think Jackson's biggest flaws are so much more fixable than Bortles's.
     
  16. MiamiDolfan85

    MiamiDolfan85 DA M.I.A IS WHERE I STAY

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    Same thing ppl said about that guy we drafted 8th overall 7 yrs ago.

    He used to play WR in college I believe...

     
  17. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer Tape Guys vs Analytics Guys Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I'll have someone prove me wrong on this, but what I've seen from watching Jackson -- probably about four and a half Louisville games in the last two years -- he's very inconsistent with everything that happens in his hips and below. Like he doesn't always square up properly, or he doesn't establish his plant leg, etc. And that's why sometimes he looks fine and other times the ball sails or burns worms. Accuracy requires consistency, and I think he is way too inconsistent there.

    I'm not an expert on quarterback throwing mechanics, but I think you can see there's a problem.

    So that's why I say that Lamar Jackson is the kind of guy who is fine if he goes to a read option team, or if he's going to be asked to sit on a bench for a couple of years while that's addressed. But people who want to bring him in here to Miami to compete right away for the starting job? That's patently ridiculous. Unless the offense got a drastic overhaul, it wouldn't be a competition at all.
     
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  18. AllFinsAllDay

    AllFinsAllDay A True Fan

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    What the hell is "hype/culture machine" ?the fact that Deshaun Watson fell last year was not an accident.
     
  19. AllFinsAllDay

    AllFinsAllDay A True Fan

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    Thank You!
     
  20. gregorygrant83

    gregorygrant83 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    At worse Jackson is Tyrod Taylor and at best he's Michael Vick. Or should that be reversed?
     
  21. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Maybe a faster more elusive Aaron Brooks once he adds another 10 pounds of muscle. Brooks was 6'4", 203 at the combine in '99...eventually got up around 220.

    He'll have to add some mass in order to maintain any semblence of longevity at the QB position, and that'll take him a few years to accomplish.
     
  22. hoops

    hoops exited stage left Hammered

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    Someone will despite all the holes in his game.

    Qb driven league and way too many bad qbs carried by other things

    I no longer think it will be top 10. Too errant a passer in the middle of the field and plays to too much contact

    I will be surprised if he only weighs 205 considering I think he is 6 foot 3. Looks to me like he’s gained weight in his arms and good weight too the kind that doesn’t scrape the speed or athlete but I don’t like tbe torso that much plus the accuracy issues and plays to contact. They will kill you if you play to contact with that frame at the next level
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  23. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

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    Excellent post. I'm not a big fan of Jackson but it's obvious he is working to improve, with the NFL in mind. I think I posted a week or so ago that I don't know what Jackson will look like a year from now, other than it will be different than currently.

    In the recent bowl game instead of bouncing around eagerly in the pocket he was flatfooted and had a somewhat mechanical release. It resulted in high misses several times, as hoops posted.

    I don't like the Steve McNair comparison. He was more solidly built and a more polished passer in college, despite playing at a small school.

    Little known fact: Las Vegas did not start booking the lower division college football playoffs until that season, and it was solely due to the publicity McNair was receiving. The MGM Grand put up the first number. Then other joints in town copied it. The original line on Youngstown State vs. Alcorn State was preposterous. MGM Grand put it up at Youngstown State -7.5. Unbelievable. I couldn't get to the window fast enough to give the points. Fortunately I was stationed at MGM Grand as part of the 3-man group I was with. We pooled money. The other major betting groups were paralyzed when that -7.5 went up on the board. They called it in to the main guy manning the phones. But I was a partner not a runner so I had free reign. We all trusted each other. I pounded that number. It eventually doubled. Then Youngstown State won by 40 or 50. Something like that. Very solid fundamentally sound team coached by Jim Tressel, who famously upset the Canes with Ohio State in the 2002 national championship game.

    I've mentioned many times that sportsbooks are only as good as their power ratings. Until the internet exploded the sportsbooks didn't have as many reliable power ratings to steal, so they would often throw up homemade numbers on the board. Those were easy pickings. I kind of feel sorry for the younger guys who are getting started now or recently. With all the corporate mergers limiting the number of independent outs, and so many available power ratings, there aren't nearly as many brutal mistakes as the old days. That's one of the reasons I didn't return full time.
     
  24. Teenwolf

    Teenwolf You are an animal

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    I see Lamar Jackson as a Vince Young type - great in college but that style just doesn't translate well to the pro's. He was very awful against Miss State. I expect him to drop way down the first round.
     
  25. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat Finheaven VIP

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    I agree with this; his footwork is...inconsistent. And again, it’s just odd...he throws with his feet close together. I also agree that he wouldn’t be ready to start immediately.

    However, I think that the flaws with his feet are far more fixable than a throwing motion. Of course, I’m no expert either. I’ve just watched a lot of football, like you.
     
  26. hoops

    hoops exited stage left Hammered

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    how come nobody talks about baker mayfields foot work when asked to reset his feet from the pocket?
     
  27. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat Finheaven VIP

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    Because I don't see a "Why not draft Baker Mayfield?" thread? I don't think any of the QB coming out right now are "can't miss prospects."
     
  28. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer Tape Guys vs Analytics Guys Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Great question. In my case, it's because I don't see him sailing footballs into the stratosphere from time to time.
     
  29. Birdmond

    Birdmond A True Fan Donator

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    Possibly but McNair was thick. I’m more concerned with Jackson’s build than anything else. I still say if Gase interviews Jackson and likes what hears pull the trigger.
     
  30. hoops

    hoops exited stage left Hammered

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    I don't see how anyone could say lamar Jackson is a fit for miamis offense when it's pre snap and progression read
     
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  31. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I'm fairly confident that Gase would never consider Lamar Jackson. Accuracy is close to the top of his list
     
  32. Danny

    Danny Finheaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    As it should be. If you're not accurate in college then you're not going to be in the NFL either. I don't want us to draft him or Mayfield for different reasons. Actually, Allen I would draft over the two of them but still, I don't believe we'll be drafting a QB at 11 anyway

    Ozzy rules!!
     
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  33. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Imo Allen is a very big project too. I like Mayfield as i feel like he's the most NFL ready of them all. Darnold might have the highest ceiling though
     
  34. Danny

    Danny Finheaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    He's a project but he's got the size and the super arm. He can make all the throws but he's not really ready. I don't believe we'll draft hiom but we should draft someone like him at some point

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  35. J. David Wannyheimer

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    Well with any of these kids you're talking about taking time to adjust to the NFL and get coached up. Jackson's not the only one. I just think that with Jackson the issues are a little magnified because of the offense he comes from and the fact that he's still a big work in progress as a thrower.
     
  36. hoops

    hoops exited stage left Hammered

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    why aren't the issues more magnified with Mayfield in the offense he comes from? only difference is spread in addition to pistol and read option
     
  37. kingfin23

    kingfin23 This is the Year

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    It's common sense. Ryan Tannehill is our QB next year. We are NOT drafting a QB til 4th to 6th round.. Period
     
  38. J. David Wannyheimer

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    Like I said, I think Jackson's just more inconsistent with his throwing.

    FWIW I am not one of the people advocating Mayfield at 11.
     
  39. FINOMINAL

    FINOMINAL Scout Team

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    I think the knock on his accuracy are extremely over simplified and exaggerated. Maybe bandwagon jumpers repeating what they have heard others say? His highlights sure show some very nice accurate throws. And I can’t get over how many times he rushes for td’s and goes in staying on his feet .To me a guy like him, you worry less about his throwing motion and make sure he’s got the mind to handle the next level. He’s plenty talented and athletic enough for sure. I would pay to watch him play, and the NFL is a business.
     
  40. vcip

    vcip Starter Finheaven VIP Donator

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    If Allen is there at 11 which he probably won't I would take him. The ability is there. No pressure to start immediately.
     

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