Why the Dolphins shouldn't draft Jordan Love | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Why the Dolphins shouldn't draft Jordan Love

I will admit to not having seen hours of game footage of Love, however when I watch or study any QB the first thing that I try to identify is how quickly he can processes information(blitz,coverage) I call it the QB Processor.

Its been my experience if a player lacks the ability or has a slow processor typically he can not improve that enough to overcome it as a major flaw to his NFL success.

Certainly there have been guys and feel free to name some who have improved enough to be successful, Im not implying its an absolute killer only that FOR ME its something I find a QB has a tough time improving.

I continue to read and see where Love "locks" on to his primary read that is a major red flag for me.

In the brief hilights I have seen of him I get the excitement over his talent however I equate a processor issue like seeing a beautiful car with a bad motor ultimately you will encounter more trouble than its worth.
 
Tom Olivadotti said:
Personally I think this guy sucks and will be a bust in the NFL, but that's not what this thread is about.

A lot of people have been pumping this guy's tires lately saying he should be the pick of the Dolphins pass on Tua or Herbert. I disagree. Here's why:

Love is nowhere near being NFL ready. He struggled against crappy Mountain West defenses. He's got a good arm but has trouble reading defenses and has poor pocket presence (The same thing Tannehill got roasted here over) He has a lot about his game that he needs to work on. Miami would be a terrible landing spot for him because we need a guy who can start sooner rather than later. Love is the definition of the word "project" He would be better off going to a team like Pittsburgh, New Orleans, or Detroit... teams that have QB's but may be looking to move on in a few years. He could be developed by a team like Detroit, who has Stafford and wouldn't have to play right away. Passing on Tua or Herbert is how you end up with Chad Henne instead of Matt Ryan.

Not only that, but there is a lot of pressure from the owner and the fan base to bring a spark to this franchise. Drafting some no-name guy out of some nothing school in Utah does not do that. Chris Grier's job is at stake here, and I just can't picture him gambling that on a project QB.
Click to expand...

"Arm talent, man. Arm talent, " *Gizzes in pants*
 
He's basically Patrick Mahomes 2.0 and will be the 1st overall pick by the time April gets here. The man could throw multiple interceptions at the senior bowl, get arrested again and his stock would continue to increase because "look at that flick of the wrist. "
 
ckparrothead said:
He threw interceptions in 2019. He didn't really in 2018. Gotta ask yourself why that is.

Losing players isn't about losing NFL players. It's about losing the guys you would trust to tag a route the right way, to get the right depth, to beat his level of competition in this situation, etc. Losing the offensive coaches had an even more dramatic effect because their play calling, route choices, everything looked far and away less rational than it had in the two years before.

Call it an 'excuse' all you want. Dan Marino was crap his final year at Pitt, when they had some turmoil. He was brilliant the year before.

Oh and he threw 46 interceptions in 24 games those final two years. So much for that argument.
Click to expand...

Or was 2018 a mirage? That offense seemed more dink and dunk and a lot of YAC. Love really struggles reading the field and has difficult time getting off his first read. I just don't see the 1st round talent. I see the arm but that's not enough for me. Lots of back ups in the NFL with good arms and accuracy but struggle in other areas like Love.
 
He shares things in common with Pat Mahomes but he's not Pat Mahomes. I won't be giving Jordan Love that kind of grade. It's not because I feel like he can't get there. It's just playing the odds. He's not got the odds to be what Pat Mahomes has become, that Pat Mahomes had when he was coming out.

Love's development arc at Utah State was such that he's really only just scratching the surface on the abilities that Pat Mahomes had more or less perfected by the time he came out of Texas Tech. It's enough to have you intrigued and to say that the two rhyme a bit, but they're not the same. Patrick Mahomes was a #1 overall type of player. Jordan Love is not.

I want to get that straight because I sense that people are more or less pinning me as the "Jordan Love is the most awesome ever" guy and I'm not that. He's not Kyler Murray to me. He's not Tua Tagovailoa. He's not Patrick Mahomes. He's not Baker Mayfield for me.

I'd love to take a shot on him, particularly because my team has an ancient QB who's shown a career tendency to let you down just when you thought he started to be good at this. And the guy behind him is dead weight, never should've been traded for.

I think a lot of the criticisms of Love are overdone. He threw interceptions this year. OK. He didn't last year. And he didn't throw a bunch of earned interceptions even in his first games as a starter back when he was 19 years old (I know, because I've watched those 2017 games, which I'm sure 99% of the critics out there have not).

So I ask the simple question, why? He lost head coach Matt Wells, who was on the sideline chatting him up in between every series in 2017 and 2018, acting as a de facto QB Coach, and he lost David Yost who has a reputation for an up-and-coming play caller and game scripter. Oh not to mention the security blankets Dax Raymond and Darwin Thompson, the top three wide receivers including his deep field man beater Ron'quavion Tarver, and all five offensive linemen. Yeah I'd say that's the elephant in the room as to why he did things in 2019 that he hadn't done in 2017 or 2018.

I have criticisms about how he came by some of those individual interceptions. But context is important. It's not as complicated as people make it out to be.

This is a player that you're going to ask to grow. He's not a finished product. He's not coming from a Lincoln Riley system where he could throw for a billion yards and touchdowns on high efficiency. He's not had Jerry Jeudy, Devonta Smith, Henry Ruggs, Jaylen Waddle, J'Marr Chase, Justin Jefferson, Thaddeus Moss, Tee Higgins, Justyn Ross, Travis Etienne, Clyde Edwards-Helaire, or Najee Harris around making things easier for him. He's not had an offensive line that pumps out NFL prospect after NFL prospect.

You're looking at the traits. Does he process the field and progress accordingly. Actually, yeah he does. It's pre-snap expectations where he runs into trouble and that's stuff you can teach him. Does he have the ability to play faster than the defense? Yeah, he does. Does he have full command of the football, every kind of throw? He does, with those big 10.5+ inch hands of his and that textbook delivery. Can he threaten a defense in ways that force them to adjust? Absolutely. Is he a good kid? Yes. Is he smart? Definitely. What's his injury history like? Practically spotless.

Dan Marino threw 46 interceptions in 24 games his last two years at Pitt. But who cares? As The Poster Formerly Known as Slimm says, you don't take the interceptions with you.
 
ckparrothead said:
He shares things in common with Pat Mahomes but he's not Pat Mahomes. I won't be giving Jordan Love that kind of grade. It's not because I feel like he can't get there. It's just playing the odds. He's not got the odds to be what Pat Mahomes has become, that Pat Mahomes had when he was coming out.

Love's development arc at Utah State was such that he's really only just scratching the surface on the abilities that Pat Mahomes had more or less perfected by the time he came out of Texas Tech. It's enough to have you intrigued and to say that the two rhyme a bit, but they're not the same. Patrick Mahomes was a #1 overall type of player. Jordan Love is not.

I want to get that straight because I sense that people are more or less pinning me as the "Jordan Love is the most awesome ever" guy and I'm not that. He's not Kyler Murray to me. He's not Tua Tagovailoa. He's not Patrick Mahomes. He's not Baker Mayfield for me.

I'd love to take a shot on him, particularly because my team has an ancient QB who's shown a career tendency to let you down just when you thought he started to be good at this. And the guy behind him is dead weight, never should've been traded for.

I think a lot of the criticisms of Love are overdone. He threw interceptions this year. OK. He didn't last year. And he didn't throw a bunch of earned interceptions even in his first games as a starter back when he was 19 years old (I know, because I've watched those 2017 games, which I'm sure 99% of the critics out there have not).

So I ask the simple question, why? He lost head coach Matt Wells, who was on the sideline chatting him up in between every series in 2017 and 2018, acting as a de facto QB Coach, and he lost David Yost who has a reputation for an up-and-coming play caller and game scripter. Oh not to mention the security blankets Dax Raymond and Darwin Thompson, the top three wide receivers including his deep field man beater Ron'quavion Tarver, and all five offensive linemen. Yeah I'd say that's the elephant in the room as to why he did things in 2019 that he hadn't done in 2017 or 2018.

I have criticisms about how he came by some of those individual interceptions. But context is important. It's not as complicated as people make it out to be.

This is a player that you're going to ask to grow. He's not a finished product. He's not coming from a Lincoln Riley system where he could throw for a billion yards and touchdowns on high efficiency. He's not had Jerry Jeudy, Devonta Smith, Henry Ruggs, Jaylen Waddle, J'Marr Chase, Justin Jefferson, Thaddeus Moss, Tee Higgins, Justyn Ross, Travis Etienne, Clyde Edwards-Helaire, or Najee Harris around making things easier for him. He's not had an offensive line that pumps out NFL prospect after NFL prospect.

You're looking at the traits. Does he process the field and progress accordingly. Actually, yeah he does. It's pre-snap expectations where he runs into trouble and that's stuff you can teach him. Does he have the ability to play faster than the defense? Yeah, he does. Does he have full command of the football, every kind of throw? He does, with those big 10.5+ inch hands of his and that textbook delivery. Can he threaten a defense in ways that force them to adjust? Absolutely. Is he a good kid? Yes. Is he smart? Definitely. What's his injury history like? Practically spotless.

Dan Marino threw 46 interceptions in 24 games his last two years at Pitt. But who cares? As The Poster Formerly Known as Slimm says, you don't take the interceptions with you.
Click to expand...


My background in scouting is in baseball as I was in scouting and player development for nearly 8 years. So I will use a baseball analogy in regards to Love. In baseball you have 5 main tools (Hitting, Power, Arm Strength, Speed, Fielding Ability) they are graded on a 20-80 (or 2-8) scale. If you are plus to elite with all the tools you are considered a 5 tool player.

More importantly you give two grades per category. A present grade (at time of evaluation in comparison to MLB average) and future grade (your future projection). So say you scout a 17 year old kid and he has elite bat speed and the ball jumps off his bat, his present tool is likely below average due to his age so you may say its a 4 or 5 (which is avg) but you project it in the future as a 7 because you see his physical and game maturity boosting the skill.

Love IMO has the greatest variance between his present and future grade. Some of the QB "tools" he is already elite and others he is below average for a current average NFL QB. But with his talent (which is god given) you can project that if cultured the skill (developed through effort) will blossom.

I think the other QBs are easier to finger because you can see a skill grade only changing slightly due to it already being polished slightly or not at all (Herbert's arm will not get better as it already tops a scale) whereas Love could jump 3 or so points from below average to elite. It is what drives people nuts in baseball and the QB position is even more important so the evaluation is even more critical.
 
Last edited:
ckparrothead said:
He shares things in common with Pat Mahomes but he's not Pat Mahomes. I won't be giving Jordan Love that kind of grade. It's not because I feel like he can't get there. It's just playing the odds. He's not got the odds to be what Pat Mahomes has become, that Pat Mahomes had when he was coming out.

Love's development arc at Utah State was such that he's really only just scratching the surface on the abilities that Pat Mahomes had more or less perfected by the time he came out of Texas Tech. It's enough to have you intrigued and to say that the two rhyme a bit, but they're not the same. Patrick Mahomes was a #1 overall type of player. Jordan Love is not.

I want to get that straight because I sense that people are more or less pinning me as the "Jordan Love is the most awesome ever" guy and I'm not that. He's not Kyler Murray to me. He's not Tua Tagovailoa. He's not Patrick Mahomes. He's not Baker Mayfield for me.

I'd love to take a shot on him, particularly because my team has an ancient QB who's shown a career tendency to let you down just when you thought he started to be good at this. And the guy behind him is dead weight, never should've been traded for.

I think a lot of the criticisms of Love are overdone. He threw interceptions this year. OK. He didn't last year. And he didn't throw a bunch of earned interceptions even in his first games as a starter back when he was 19 years old (I know, because I've watched those 2017 games, which I'm sure 99% of the critics out there have not).

So I ask the simple question, why? He lost head coach Matt Wells, who was on the sideline chatting him up in between every series in 2017 and 2018, acting as a de facto QB Coach, and he lost David Yost who has a reputation for an up-and-coming play caller and game scripter. Oh not to mention the security blankets Dax Raymond and Darwin Thompson, the top three wide receivers including his deep field man beater Ron'quavion Tarver, and all five offensive linemen. Yeah I'd say that's the elephant in the room as to why he did things in 2019 that he hadn't done in 2017 or 2018.

I have criticisms about how he came by some of those individual interceptions. But context is important. It's not as complicated as people make it out to be.

This is a player that you're going to ask to grow. He's not a finished product. He's not coming from a Lincoln Riley system where he could throw for a billion yards and touchdowns on high efficiency. He's not had Jerry Jeudy, Devonta Smith, Henry Ruggs, Jaylen Waddle, J'Marr Chase, Justin Jefferson, Thaddeus Moss, Tee Higgins, Justyn Ross, Travis Etienne, Clyde Edwards-Helaire, or Najee Harris around making things easier for him. He's not had an offensive line that pumps out NFL prospect after NFL prospect.

You're looking at the traits. Does he process the field and progress accordingly. Actually, yeah he does. It's pre-snap expectations where he runs into trouble and that's stuff you can teach him. Does he have the ability to play faster than the defense? Yeah, he does. Does he have full command of the football, every kind of throw? He does, with those big 10.5+ inch hands of his and that textbook delivery. Can he threaten a defense in ways that force them to adjust? Absolutely. Is he a good kid? Yes. Is he smart? Definitely. What's his injury history like? Practically spotless.

Dan Marino threw 46 interceptions in 24 games his last two years at Pitt. But who cares? As The Poster Formerly Known as Slimm says, you don't take the interceptions with you.
Click to expand...

yes you can look at it that way but you could also look at saying what happend in 2018? Lots of 1st reads, quick short throws with YAC.

I'm not saying he should go undrafted or anything but I haven't seen enough to give him a first round grade.... And then you have the legal stupid stuff. He would be a great day two pick.
 
Last edited:
Blake the great said:
yes you can look at it that way but you could also look at saying what happend in 2018? Lots of 1st reads, quick short throws with YAC.

I'm not saying he should go undrafted or anything but I haven't seen enough to give him a first round grade.... And then you have the legal stupid stuff. He would be a great day two pick.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the NFL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: A1.
Well who’s willing to pick him in the top 10 cause if you pick him there you are betting your future on it. Hell I think if you pick a qb in the first round you are betting your future on it as a gm.

I don’t see the misreads really I just see a lot of eye discipline being the main issue on the 19 tape. I’m not sitting there saying that’s a bad read to myself. Maybe some lack of accountability for the lb level and maybe some outside the numbers quick decisions that I’m not a fan of relative to coverage but you got guys running to his eyes.

And I do think he misses that kid Raymond who looked like his security blanket to me on 18 tape.
 
I've said all through this that Love or Herbert to Miami is probably not the best fit for both players and coaching staff as both players need at least 2 solid years of great coaching to hopefully get to where they can become with the physical toolsets they both have. Having said that, if either of those kids are whom the coaching staff have determined to be the player they feel confident in rebuilding this franchise around and the owner is willing to move away from his target of being a contender within 2 years, then I for one would be right behind it, can't deny what either them have for natural ability.

One thing that concerned me a little with Love, was the interview he gave to NFLN last night, now he was following Herbert who is great behind the mic and a very likable guy, but I dunno Love didn't come across in a impressive way at all to me, it's the first time I've heard him speak and perhaps I caught him at a bad point but it's a question mark in my mind at least as with both these kids that leadership and intangibles is vital.
 
Why is it Loves pre snap issues are coachable but Rosen isn't? Why is it acceptable for a qb like Love or even some say herbert to sit for a year to learn but Rosen it's not okay. Why is it Loves lack of conviction for the game is okay yet Rosens family money is held against him.
 
RobertHorry said:
Dude has so much potential to be the next Mahomes or the next Josh Johnson with an arm.
Click to expand...

I've always loved quarterbacks who could dial up every degree on the rainbow depending on evolving needs of the play. The number of permutations toward a successful outcome explodes. But it was always within the crashing pocket and within 2-3 seconds.

In the new NFL with more mobile quarterbacks and severely restricted defenses the jackpot is a guy who can apply any loft while also dancing around until he finds that spot for the ideal loft. And if nothing shows up then take off on your own before dashing out of bounds for 12 yards. The football version of a basketball player who can create his own shot anywhere, instead of a predictable move or two and predictable spot or two he prefers.

These days if you aren't looking for that type of guy in the NFL then you aren't really trying, IMO. It buys a full decade of agony for the current batch of Tom Olivadottis.

Is Jordan Love going to stand there and stare, while shuffling around a little bit and having a basically nothing NFL career with his slightly too long delivery, or is he going to have the light bulb go on suddenly sense he can be a dipping and dodging ballet dancer out there? I could see it going both ways. He's not nearly as weavingly instinctive as Mahomes. But I have no idea how 2018 can be ignored. Jordan Love was swagger personified. That entire Utah State team was swagger. I'm always a believer in ignoring recency when greatness preceded. You'll have busts but plenty of low expense booms that more than make up for those busts. I have no idea how anyone can watch or remember Jordan Love from 2018 and rationalize that all the gorgeous contorting throws are gone forever, that the athletic arrogance while prancing into the end zone and flipping the ball to a nearby referee is gone forever, and was some type of mirage.

Within a month or two the conversation will change. That stuff will be remembered. Jordan Love will have awesome stretches during the combine process. Everything tends to drift back to the beginning.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom