Why the most important element for our offense and QB is trust and timing | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Why the most important element for our offense and QB is trust and timing

don’t disagree in that game his arm wasn’t as good as it was in some other games, but I think that came down to his hip and having no confidence in his receivers

the saints offense that a lot of folks myself included want to mirror witb tua has a lot of intermediate level concepts in it.

Ones he has to be able to execute in any climate essentially. Saints go home early largely cause the qb can’t execute in that environment. You can tell me that timing and anticipation are more important than arm strength and to an extent I will go along with it but you have to be able to execute the ask concept wise otherwise...

And the only other thing I’m gonna say here is while the routes run aren’t gods gift to route running if the qb can see the top of the route or late stem even he has to do a better job of putting in on guys especially when it’s a 10 air yards or less type tbrow. Those have to be pitch and catch. These guys practice these route concepts etc all week long in game prep. he has to know the way Lynn bowden for example runs his stem or comes out of it on a dig/pivot etc.
 
the one tua had at 22 at Buffalo wasnt nfl quality either intermediate

that’s what I’m saying
He will get it back this off season. A lot of people think when a doctor says someone is 100% healed that they are as good as new. Like when I fractured my heal in 5 places, my doctor told me after 6 months it was 100% healed up. But guess what I still couldn’t walk on it. I wouldn’t be surprised if Tua still has some doubts from time to time. Fills a twinge hear some pain there it’s a long process to getting back to 100% physical output.
 
don’t disagree in that game his arm wasn’t as good as it was in some other games but I didn’t really see too many clips showing it was a sign of concern, but I think that came down to his hip and trunk not being strong enough and having no confidence in his receivers
Not sure why people expect his stamina to be there after rehabbing an injury for the previous year.
 
is that why Gailey said in week 17 that Tua and the receivers have an issue with trust?

Notice, nowhere did I say TT trusted ALL his receivers. And he did seem to DVP and Williams, though not on jump balls.. The others, you're right, not so much.
 
I haven't seen the suddeness on Tua's hips we saw in 'Bama or in that roll out on the pass to Laird in his first completion against the Jets.

He seems to be throwing all arm and that eventually must have killed his shoulder.

He'll be better at the start of next year for sure, question is how long he can keep his motion as crisp, sudden and nearly violent as it must be in order to keep the zip up through 18 wks.
 
I haven't seen the suddeness on Tua's hips we saw in 'Bama or in that roll out on the pass to Laird in his first completion against the Jets.

He seems to be throwing all arm and that eventually must have killed his shoulder.

He'll be better at the start of next year for sure, question is how long he can keep his motion as crisp, sudden and nearly violent as it must be in order to keep the zip up through 18 wks.

He needs an offseason of strength training
 
He used to do this little hop when he threw, in the last few wks I just saw him step in with the right leg and twist his torso a lil' bit.
 
He will get it back this off season. A lot of people think when a doctor says someone is 100% healed that they are as good as new. Like when I fractured my heal in 5 places, my doctor told me after 6 months it was 100% healed up. But guess what I still couldn’t walk on it. I wouldn’t be surprised if Tua still has some doubts from time to time. Fills a twinge hear some pain there it’s a long process to getting back to 100% physical output.
Another reason why he should not of been starting this season
 
don’t disagree in that game his arm wasn’t as good as it was in some other games but I didn’t really see too many clips showing it was a sign of concern, but I think that came down to his hip and trunk not being strong enough and having no confidence in his receivers
I think a lot of the arm strength issues right now are mostly a product of indecisiveness. I really believe when you are indecisive you begin to get gun shy about letting it rip. I think when Tua becomes more comfortable with his skill players around him, and becomes more familiar with the scheme, and the game begins to slow down for him with experience, you will see the ball velocity increase.
 
This weak armed thing gets a little overblown by fans who saw him throw some ducks this year. He can make all the throws.

The difference between Tua and Rodgers, Mahomes, and Allen is that you're not going to see him launch something 50 yds down the field off of upper body torque alone. The kid has to set his feet.
9/10 NFL QBs can throw the ball 50 yards down the middle of the field.

His arm comes into question when he takes the snap on the left hash and has to complete a pass outside the numbers on the right side.

His lack of arm strength shows then.
 
It has often been said that when players tear an ACL - even though they may be 'fully healed' within the first year - it actually takes till Year 2 before all the strength returns to their damaged knee. As it is true for running backs regaining their speed and explosiveness so would I believe it to be true of a QB who obliterated his hip in an injury such as what Tagovailoa experienced.

Especially, as so many have pointed out, without a proper offseason of conditioning, he pretty much went directly from rehab to the playing field. Patience, please. I'm sure we'll be revisiting this in a year from now.
 
He needs an offseason of strength training
This is 100% spot on. I said it before we even draft Tua, anyone expecting him to be back 100% to his previous playing strength this year was just kidding themselves.

I related his injury to a pitcher that has tommy John surgery. You are healed 100% to come back within a year but then it takes another season to rebuild strength like you where before.

Just think about throwing a football, it is not just about your arm. You drive with your lower body and core body strength matters a lot as well.

He went what maybe 4 months or more with little to no strength training. Look at his lower body this year compared to at Bama. He is definitely thinner. If I had to wager his overall ball velosity was maybe 90% of what it was at Bama. Give him a year to rebuild his strength and confidence before you start claiming he is no good.
 
Timing, Anticipation, and release is what matters more than arm strength.

Arm strength doesn't really matter in the NFL, it's all about anticipation. But more than anything of that, it's about trusting your receivers. Here is an example for you.

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Preston Williams is running a deep out route. Lets say on his 8th step he decides to plant his inside foot, sink his hips and explode at angle for the out route.

Tua decides to throw is before he even plants his inside foot, causing the ball to be there when he breaks out of his cut. Ball arrives perfectly on time. Its bang bang and the DB has zero chance of picking it off.

Now lets take another player in Lynn Bowden. Bowden decides to shimmy and take a giant hop step at his 8th step. He stutters for another few steps then rounds out his cut and goes to the out. Tua holds and is unable to throw because he doesn't hit his marks when Tua is ready to let go before Lynn sinks and his hips and cuts. This messes up timing and anticipation. But what it does more than anything is mess up the trust.

Tua will start trusting Preston because he runs his routes and is where he needs to be when he needs to be. When Lynn Bowden runs routes, he isn't and that messes with a QB in a bad way like Tua.

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Lets take some real life examples.

So when you run a slant route in the NFL, you usually are taught to line up with your outside foot forward. on the LOS. Lets say we want to run a slant route from the left side. You line up your LEFT foot up on the LOS. You usually are taught to take 4 steps, then sink your outside foot and explode inside into the slant. So again, left foot up. You take 1(right)-2(left)-3(right) -> 4th step(left) explode into the slant. What that does is you "sync" up with your QB where they are supposed to throw it based off your 4th step and their drop or hitch. You usually want to push to the outside shoulder of the DB/LB if they have inside leverage shade. So if you were running a slant from right side, you line up with your right foot forward and so on. Here is a perfect example of some slants.

Check out the one Odell runs at 31 seconds below.



This doesn't mean how its only taught and theres only one way. There's so many different ways to run a slant, but this is usually the most efficient. What you start doing though is switching up what foot is lined up in front so the DB can't predict your routes.

Devontae Smith runs a PERFECT slant route. Thats why him and Tua and Mac are always hitting those quick scores.

Now lets take look at a REALLY bad slant route.

Check out 7:39 all the way to 8:05. Its the same play. Its Lynn Bowden running a slant route.



7:39 clip - He takes 2 steps then does a jump/hop step then stutters and takes an hour to come out of his break.

Now watch the next clip at 7:55

Tua holds and clutches the ball twice before he throws it. Again. TRUST and timing. If Bowden runs a damn normal slant route, Tua can release it and throw it to him.

This is not just about Tua, its more about the state of our wide receivers and their skill level and route running. Even if we get Deshaun Watson, these receivers need a complete overhaul.

At the end of the day the most important thing in the NFL for a receiver and QB is trust. Not how fast your 40 is. Not how far or hard you can throw the ball. It's being on the same page so you can consistently be at the same place at the same time mentally. Tua is all about anticipation and timing. Get receivers he trusts and he could have the weakest arm in the NFL and still dominate. Because a QB that can release it faster than anyone else with excellent anticipation and trust in his receivers is impossible to defend.

So please just stop worrying so much about someone's 40 time (because getting open literally has nothing to do with a 40), how tall or big they are, how far or hard they can throw the ball. Why do you think Jabar Gaffney of all people dominated with Tom Brady? It's because he ran crisp routes and Brady trusted him.

Great post here. Ive always seen Tua's game Rely on execution/timing. Because timing is everything... another example is a simple swing pass to a RB. The ball needs to be placed right in front where the RB is catching it in stride with his arms not stretching too far (the qb usually anticipates and throws it before the RB cuts upfield). The RB though, needs to run the exact route everytime (maybe curling a bit) not over running the play so he doesnt break stride. If you witness a swing pass not executed well, it may not look all that bad, but it may have cost a few more yards or a needed first down.
Tua was all about execution if you watched him in college. Slants, swing passes, and yes even long ball throws. Give him more weapons and reps, some protection, and he will deliver
 
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9/10 NFL QBs can throw the ball 50 yards down the middle of the field.

His arm comes into question when he takes the snap on the left hash and has to complete a pass outside the numbers on the right side.

His lack of arm strength shows then.
Tua has a good enough arm to be a Pro Bowl QB in the NFL (not saying he will be just that he has enough arm strength). Also he was not 100% back to full arm strength/full ball velosity this year as at Bama.

His arm is right in the same range of Brees/Manning.

Also the throw to the outside hash mark is used a lot less in the NFL now. CB's use to be told physically force WRs to the outside, make it hard to go inside by bumping and clutching. You just can't do that anymore, it is a sure way to get a holding call in today's NFL. Also there is less of a deterrent of a WR crossing over the middle then ever before. You just don't have to worry about a Atwater/Lott taking your head off going over the middle.
 
If you are just here to go after our QB with nothing constructive to add this is not the thread for you and if it continues you will be unable to post here

This is the topic

why-the-most-important-element-for-our-offense-and-qb-is-trust-and-timing

Please get back to it
 
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