Why the NFL isn't as special anymore

Discussion in 'General NFL Forum' started by DisturbedShifty, Dec 10, 2017.

  1. DisturbedShifty

    DisturbedShifty Shifty Gold Administrator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 2006
    Messages:
    16,176
    Likes Received:
    2,004
    Trophy Points:
    113
  2. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2004
    Messages:
    23,622
    Likes Received:
    3,015
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thursday does need to go. They also need better refs, less commercials and a package you can buy just the games you want. If I could pay idk 80 bucks a year for Miami dolphins televised games i would do that. That's 5 dollars a game which i think is fair
     
  3. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2012
    Messages:
    19,989
    Likes Received:
    4,428
    Trophy Points:
    113
    5 dollars a game for any sport is absurdly cheap
     
  4. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Mar 2004
    Messages:
    30,529
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's about $5 more than a lot of people currently pay to watch games.
     
    redbeard75 and nick1 like this.
  5. GreenMts

    GreenMts Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 2005
    Messages:
    1,451
    Likes Received:
    82
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Minnesota v Panthers game today (12/10) is a perfect example of why the NFL is no longer special. A good game spoiled by replays and officiating - none of it really wrong necessarily . At least 3 fairly pivotal calls during that game were "technically" correct but to the casual fan these are kinda head scratchers. A touchdown where there receiver caught it inbounds, briefly had control but then lost control out of bounds. A "forward pass" that ended up being a fumble because the QB and ball was hit and lost control during the motion, etc. The game has become too bureaucratic, too legalistic, and too arcane in much of its on the field and off the field rules. I get that some hardcore fans don't mind this, or may actually enjoy that they have the special knowledge of the rules.... but if you ask me it has drained the fun out of the game ... and replays, oh the replays that seem to substantiate the arcane rules....
     
    #1 Fan likes this.
  6. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2012
    Messages:
    19,989
    Likes Received:
    4,428
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And its about 10 less than the NFL currently charges in international markets etc where these packages already exist

    5 dollars a game is no doubt a great idea for fans. And might be a great fit for a minor league college team.


    The biggest problem with the NFL is that they destroyed the offseason with the last cba. Games will continue to get worse until they sort out player development.
     
  7. Dolph N.Fan

    Dolph N.Fan A True Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 2010
    Messages:
    10,907
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Carson Wentz going down degrades already a tough year for the QB position. It basically clinches another mvp for Brady. Probably another Sb win as well.
     
  8. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Mar 2004
    Messages:
    30,529
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm familiar with the international market. Personally, I don't know anybody who pays that in either Australia or Canada. You also have to factor in the cost of international licensing agreements and whatnot, which increase the cost for international fans. It would certainly be lower in the US. Or not, in which case people keep not paying that and somehow still seeing the games.

    $5 or a little more might persuade people to go for the higher quality viewing. I'm sure the NFL has figured out the right balance to maximize those profits. Doubt it's a big reason for any shortfalls.

    Agreed regarding player development. That and injuries. It will be interesting to see what the injury numbers look like for this year compared to previous years (https://www.playsmartplaysafe.com/newsroom/reports/2016-injury-data/). They may not be higher, but no doubt there are more star players. That hurts the whole league.
     
  9. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer Tape Guys vs Analytics Guys Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2011
    Messages:
    26,157
    Likes Received:
    5,436
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The NFL could do a lot to win back fans with a few simple changes:

    1. Full time refs that are actually competent.
    2. Make certain penalties (DPI in particular) subject to replay challenge.
    3. FEWER COMMERCIALS.


    #3 will only happen when the NFL figures out that fan retention is more important in the long run than a few extra commercials in the short run. And even looking at it from outside of a fan's perspective, that absolutely is the case. It's a lesson many businesses have to learn the hard way: when you are successful, customer retention trumps all.
     
  10. Birdmond

    Birdmond A True Fan Donator

    Joined:
    Nov 2012
    Messages:
    1,737
    Likes Received:
    324
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I’d prefer all prime time games eliminated. I hate them.
     
  11. Daytona Fin

    Daytona Fin There's one, set for stun Moderator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 2002
    Messages:
    29,807
    Likes Received:
    2,871
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Stop trying to take the sport overseas
    Put an end to Thursday night games, two on Thanksgiving is enough
    Over commercialization makes people want to vomit
    Quit making teams build new stadiums every two years
    Free agency is out of control, reward teams for keeping their best players for their entire careers
    Stop the stupid cross networks games, 2 AFC teams playing should not be aired on Fox
    Stop the rapid team location. Taking the Raiders from Oakland is just dumb.
    It's 2017, can we eliminate the moving of chains and spotting the ball. Go to the dollar store and buy some laser pointers for **** sake.
    Lower ticket prices, duh.

    The NFL needs to long, hard look at Nascar and their failures after the sport peaked out. They are headed down the same path, empty seats and a major decrease in fans. Get back to their roots and what made the sport a success.
     
  12. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth Taggart is my Homeboy Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 2013
    Messages:
    10,487
    Likes Received:
    2,420
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I like it...

    You've already mentioned eliminating Thursday night games I will add to have two bye weeks and only 3 preseason games.

    On Sunday, there should be two games on at both 1 and 4. Eliminate the blackout bullshit.

    Any player who is resigned should only have his cap value assessed at 75% against the cap. Would encourage teams to keep their own players.

    Yeah, the fact we have access to untold amounts of technology, the fact that spotting the ball is still up to human error and the question of whether a player makes 1st still baffles me.
     
    Daytona Fin likes this.
  13. Adam Strange

    Adam Strange Question Authority Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 2008
    Messages:
    1,233
    Likes Received:
    316
    Trophy Points:
    83
    No more instant replay than there already is. I'd rather it was scrapped all together than adding to it.

    And there's no way the free agency genie is ever being put back into the bottle. It's even worse in MLB, for instance, where no small market team is ever able to pay competitive salaries to the superstars that they develop.
     
  14. Namor

    Namor Pro Bowler Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jan 2005
    Messages:
    6,271
    Likes Received:
    388
    Trophy Points:
    83
    The NFL will be special for me again when we are in the playoffs yearly.... Yes..I'm that petty!!!
     
    dlockz likes this.
  15. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer Tape Guys vs Analytics Guys Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2011
    Messages:
    26,157
    Likes Received:
    5,436
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They keep the chains because that way they can manipulate them.
     
  16. finmann

    finmann Pro Bowler

    Joined:
    Jan 2005
    Messages:
    4,661
    Likes Received:
    1,301
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Take the games out of the Refs hands, that's a start. It's called a contact sport for a reason...these flags are coming out faster than I have ever seen before, way to many ticky tacky penalties.
    As far as having less commercials......good luck with that, think about those billion dollar contracts signed by the league.
     
  17. Ilovemyfins4eva

    Ilovemyfins4eva A True Fan Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2009
    Messages:
    7,892
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    48
    1.eliminate Thursday night games- what used to make football special is that there was football on Sunday and 1 Monday night game, then you went 5 full days without any NFL games, making the build up and appreciation that much greater. Now, before you can blink again, there is another football game on after the Monday night game ends. aside from that quality being nowhere near as good on Thursday nights compared to Sundays, it also takes a marquee game away from being shown on Sunday, lessening the amount of quality games for Sunday. i promise you nfl, no one will miss Thursday night football , the fans nor players like it. The only 2 Thursdays during the year i am ok with Thursday football are, opening night, as the Superbowl champion deserves there own night, and thanksgiving, 2 games only, as it is a tradition. if there must be a 3rd, but those are the only 2 Thursdays, im sure most fans can live.

    2. penalties. no one wants to see a flag thrown on every freaking play. call the blatant calls only, like delay of games, offside, false starts, extreme holdings, etc. stop with the ticky tack penalties that have no real impact on the play, but are just called so the refs can be center of attention. it feels like there are so many penalties called just so the refs can have there moment. its a major problem when all the fans brains are wired to expect a penalty on every big play, which takes away from enjoying the moment.

    3. replay system- absolute disaster. takes away momentum from the game, and in most times totally unnecessary reasons for them. like some posters stated above, if they'd scrap the entire replay system id be fine with that. Sure, some calls would be missed, but the games would move along way faster, and you would stop with these totally unnecessary replays that all they do is stop momentum, when at the end of the day, most calls are not overturned. The more realistic plan should be, give each team 2 or 3 challenges for the entire game, they can challenge whatever they want, be it a penalty , a td, etc. no more automatic reviews, even inside 2 minutes. if the team is right, they keep there challenge, if not they lose it, and once they run out, sucks for them. teams will have to be more cautious about what they want to review, as there will be no more automatic reviews on tds, turnovers, or under 2 minutes. preferably, 2 challenges as opposed to 3.

    4. what is or isn't a catch. stop making to understand what a catch is, into a scientific experiment. its simple, if it looks like a catch, its a catch, if it dosent, its not. when 99 percent o the fans, coaches, or players for that matter dont know what a catch is, you know you got a major problem.

    The nfl has tons to work on this off season, and that is why imo, aside from being a terrible commissioner, goodell should not have been given an extension until he at least showed he was willing to fix these issues.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2017
  18. finmann

    finmann Pro Bowler

    Joined:
    Jan 2005
    Messages:
    4,661
    Likes Received:
    1,301
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree with you especially when it comes to penalties, they are just way to many especially when we are expecting it on nearly every play. Many of them are so ticky tacky that it leaves the fans scratching their heads or just pissed off.
     
  19. ShorePhin

    ShorePhin A True Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 2011
    Messages:
    1,311
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    48
    A lot of good posts here. Thursday football has become an abomination it really needs to go it really does damage to players and quality of play is horrendous and it is over saturation of your own market. Ref quality is really bad but they suffer from the fact that football is contact sport of the worst kind, they have to tread a line of safety and health and often the rules have changed so much that it slows the game and vague rules often hurt the play and flow of games. The hard cap is also another problem that has to be fixed it is suppose to give parity but all it does is make shrewd front offices abuse it. Teams should be able retain anyone they draft and sign with a cap pass, a reduced cap hit or no hit at all, it promotes fandom and continuity for franchises. Everyone loves Jarvis Landry but how can you invest your fandom in him if he is always going to be a threat to be abandoned due to cap restrictions
     
  20. Daytona Fin

    Daytona Fin There's one, set for stun Moderator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 2002
    Messages:
    29,807
    Likes Received:
    2,871
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This year there were fewer penalties, league wide, since 2013.
     
  21. Birdmond

    Birdmond A True Fan Donator

    Joined:
    Nov 2012
    Messages:
    1,737
    Likes Received:
    324
    Trophy Points:
    83
    That’s a big part of it. Some fan bases have suffered through bad football for so long they just casually follow the team waiting for it to improve.
     
  22. finmann

    finmann Pro Bowler

    Joined:
    Jan 2005
    Messages:
    4,661
    Likes Received:
    1,301
    Trophy Points:
    113
    ......and you're probably right, but it sure doesn't feel that way. I guess it's the kind of penalty that annoys me the most, if a player looks at an opposing player the wrong way......a penalty, you touch a WR beyond 5 yards......a penalty. It just seems to me that the refs control the game.
     
  23. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 2009
    Messages:
    7,633
    Likes Received:
    596
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Looked pretty special in that last game of the weekend. Wow!
     
    cltchperf likes this.
  24. CedarPhin

    CedarPhin King of the Winter Carnival Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 2008
    Messages:
    23,744
    Likes Received:
    1,630
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Thursday Night games are awful...it's just like an overkill of football.
    QB play across the board is down, and with a lot of the "Great QBs" getting up there in years, it may decline...some of this has to do with colleges moving towards a spread-happy system I guess, and pro-style QBs being less and less in number, making it harder/longer for good QBs to develop, as spread offenses just don't work in the NFL.

    The matchups are just bad for the most part too, especially this year, with a lot of pretty bad teams. No one is going to watch Browns v. Lions unless they're fans of both teams, putting games like that on primetime is going to drive away viewers too.

    Those would be my reasons.
     
  25. WestPhish

    WestPhish Seasoned Veteran Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2003
    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Cuz the rest of the world is busy watching the real "football"....or soccer as you call it
     
  26. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 2009
    Messages:
    7,633
    Likes Received:
    596
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Soccer is pretty boring to me. Can't watch it.
     
  27. WestPhish

    WestPhish Seasoned Veteran Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2003
    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I feel the same way about baseball.....I can go to the kitchen, make a sandwich come back and still nothing happened.
     
    phins_4_ever likes this.
  28. phins_4_ever

    phins_4_ever E12 FH Tailgate Gang Moderator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jan 2002
    Messages:
    22,512
    Likes Received:
    2,868
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't mind Thursday Night or Sunday Night Football. I always have the choice if I want to watch or not. My biggest issue is the endless commercials. They used to have commercials when the possession changed. Then they added commercials before FGs and extra points, then they added commercials with every injury time out and now they throw in commercials with almost every team time out as well.
    The problem is that the TV broadcast is determining the length of the time outs. Which can be in excess of 3 minutes. The only option a ref has to call for a 30 sec time out. But otherwise they are undetermined in length.

    It seems that any and all interruptions in the game is used for some kind of a commercial time out.

    Just think about that:
    - there are 11 minutes of action in every football game (defense, offense, special units combined). Yes, 11 minutes where the ball actually moves. That averages to players playing a total of 3-4 min each.
    - on average you have 20 commercial breaks (approx 100 commercials) during every game

    https://www.quora.com/How-many-minutes-does-an-nfl-player-play-per-game
    https://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704281204575002852055561406

    Even going to the game is often unbearable just sitting there.
     
    GothicPhin and royalshank like this.
  29. Daytona Fin

    Daytona Fin There's one, set for stun Moderator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 2002
    Messages:
    29,807
    Likes Received:
    2,871
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's all about revenue. Longer games means more ads , more ads means moor money for the NFL.
     
  30. phins_4_ever

    phins_4_ever E12 FH Tailgate Gang Moderator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jan 2002
    Messages:
    22,512
    Likes Received:
    2,868
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I know that. But it is part why people are turned of by the NFL.
     
    royalshank likes this.
  31. DolfanISS

    DolfanISS Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 2002
    Messages:
    12,351
    Likes Received:
    944
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I watch less football now than ever. I haven’t watched an entire playoff game this year.
     
  32. Ben Had

    Ben Had You're awesome! Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 2004
    Messages:
    3,427
    Likes Received:
    1,336
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree the penalties the last several years havemade a lot of games unwatchable or just leave me pissed off.

    Another big turn off for me is the players bringing politics in...
     
  33. John813

    John813 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2015
    Messages:
    581
    Likes Received:
    190
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Biggest issue with TNF is that a majority of them end up being bad matchups.
    Trying to hype up the Lions versus the Bengals doesn't do anything for anyone outside of those fanbases.

    If anything it should be rivarly matchups either between divisions or made through playoff battles.

    Cowboys v Redskins
    NE vs Pitt
    Miami v Jets
    etc
     
    GothicPhin likes this.
  34. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 2009
    Messages:
    7,633
    Likes Received:
    596
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't like the divisional games on Thursdays. You only get 6 so they are pretty important. And to make one of those on the road with short notice isn't fair to the road team.

    Since they started Thursday night Football the Patriots have had 5 straight home games before having to have their first road game in Tampa this year. 3 times those were wins over division rivals that helped them win the division. 3-0 at home

    In that same time frame the Dolphins played division rivals 3 times but 2 of the 3 were on the road and ended up as losses.

    In fact since the start of Thursday night Football the home team has won 6 of 9 and one of the games wasn't even a home field game. So really 6-2 at home.

    Games involving the AFC East and the AFC East beginning with the 2009 season (games on Thu):

    2009 season: Week 13 Thu Dec 3 2009 at Buf NY Jets 19, Buffalo 13 at Toronto, Ont
    2012 season: Week 11 Thu Nov 15 2012 at Buf Buffalo 19, Miami 14
    2013 season: Week 2 Thu Sep 12 2013 at NE New England 13, NY Jets 10
    2014 season: Week 7 Thu Oct 16 2014 at NE New England 27, NY Jets 25
    2014 season: Week 11 Thu Nov 13 2014 at Mia Miami 22, Buffalo 9
    2015 season: Week 8 Thu Oct 29 2015 at NE New England 36, Miami 7
    2015 season: Week 10 Thu Nov 12 2015 at NYJ Buffalo 22, NY Jets 17
    2016 season: Week 2 Thu Sep 15 2016 at Buf NY Jets 37, Buffalo 31
    2017 season: Week 9 Thu Nov 29 2017 at NYJ NY Jets 34, Buffalo 21

    They seem to like the Buffalo - Jets matchups 4 of them so far.
     
  35. John813

    John813 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2015
    Messages:
    581
    Likes Received:
    190
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I'm not a big fan of the idea I proposed either, lol, but at least it would be a tad more interesting watching two teams that may not like each other than what we see most weeks.
    Should just can the games, minus on Thanksgiving.
    I would prefer more Saturday night games, but I assume it conflicts with people who watch NCAAF?
     
  36. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2008
    Messages:
    10,710
    Likes Received:
    376
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I've stopped watching Thursday and Monday games and even some Sunday night games religiously in an effort to pace myself. If it looks like a good game or the Dolphins are playing I watch. Its a dangerous game the NFL is playing because I might go from half the Thursday games to no Thursday games, even my own team. If I start skipping out on a few of my own teams games then I'm probably taking the next step in cancelling Sunday Ticket or season tickets.

    The NFL is overexposed for me, and its not just the extra games. Its the forums. Free agency. The draft. Training camp. Preseason. Instead of a 20 week season, or 30-40 game days, its 365, 24-7 almost. Why the hell do I feel the need to learn about who the assistant line coach is or isn't? In the old days I found out who the head coach and QB was week one. Sometimes I watched the draft, sometimes I didn't. And I had much more passion on game day because I naively thought every team was 0-0 and we all had an even shot. Man what I would give to go back to being that type of fan.

    PVR is a lifeline for me, don't know if I could stand the commercials without it. Plus I can do other things and watch on my own schedule. It works for me, but I live in a hockey town in eastern Canada so no real risk of scores being spoiled.
     
  37. Teenwolf

    Teenwolf You are an animal

    Joined:
    Jul 2005
    Messages:
    265
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Hey guys, British fan here!

    I can't help but feel the NFL is following the 'globalisation' of the English Premier League (soccer). Our games are broadcast in over 200 countries, the TV revenue is just too great. Games are shown at... wait for it:
    Saturday 12.30pm
    Saturday 5.30pm
    Sunday 12.30pm
    Sunday 2.30pm
    Sunday 4pm
    Monday 8pm
    Tuesday 7.45pm (European cup games)
    Wednesday 7.45pm + European cup games
    Thursday 7.45pm - Europacup games
    Friday 8pm

    BOOM there it is - 7 days a week! When you consider the soccer season runs from early August to mid May - that's an incredible amount of games! But the TV revenue keeps growing, which leads to the top teams who qualify for european games getting richer every year, widening the gap between the rich & poor - where have we heard that before!?

    As said before;

    1. Scrap replays apart from 3 challenges per team
    2. Define what a catch is once and for all
    3. 1 International game per season
    4. ABSOLUTELY NO INTERNATIONAL FRANCHISE (such a bad idea)
    5. Sunday 1pm , 4pm & Monday night games only regular season
    6. AFC Champ on Sat, NFC Champ on Sun - Championship weekend!!
    7. Pro Bowl needs to go back to the old format

    There you go, that's my 2 pence :)
     
  38. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2008
    Messages:
    10,710
    Likes Received:
    376
    Trophy Points:
    83
    The worst thing they could do is go to an 18 game season and 16 playoff teams.
     
  39. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 2009
    Messages:
    7,633
    Likes Received:
    596
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I like the 16 playoff team idea. It would a make the playoffs more balanced. Top seeds have advanced to the Super Bowl 9 out of the last 10 times. It is way too big of an advantage. Its almost a foregone conclusion before the playoffs begin.

    Positives

    16 teams makes it more like the NCAA tournament with everyone having the same chance and having to win the same number of games.
    Top 4 teams in each conference get a bye while lower teams play on week 1 of playoffs. Winners of week 1 get a bye while top team play the 2nd week.
    3rd week is Conference Championship, Followed by Super Bowl.
    13 playoff games instead of 11.
    No huge advantage for any team other than home field.
    All team must win 4 playoff game to be Champs
    More cities involved in weeks leading to playoffs

    Negative.

    Might have an 8-8 playing a 7-9 in playoffs. But this year this formula would have 9-7 at worst in playoffs in both conferences.
     
    Ben Had likes this.
  40. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer Tape Guys vs Analytics Guys Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2011
    Messages:
    26,157
    Likes Received:
    5,436
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Playoff expansion is an interesting idea. I get the argument that it would water down the playoffs and we'd probably see some 6-10 or other hot garbage team get in, but if anything that just makes it more exciting to me.

    Teams with losing records have made the playoffs before, and some of them have actually won playoff games. I think it was the 2010 season that Seattle went 7-9 and beat the Saints? That was a great football game.
     

Share This Page