Why we won't draft a QB in the first 5 rounds

[Lenny]

There seem to be two big camps here, pro-Beck and hate-Beck.

Almost all of the people who say we won't pick a QB this year follow that statement up with overflowing praise for Beck and his potential.

The people who think we will take a QB give us a list of reasons that Beck sucks and will never make it as an NFL QB.

I haven't passed judgement on Beck, or McCown....I have no opinion on either of them because I haven't seen enough of either one to form a judgement.

Even if I had, my personal judgement on whether a guy is good enough isn't going to influence what the dolphins are going to do this year. (and your personal judgement isn't going to influence them either)

The reason I don't think we're taking a QB in the 1st 5 rounds this year is because we have two young QB's on the roster (28 and 26) who have not had a chance to prove themselves in the league.

It makes no sense whatsoever to spend another high pick on a QB, so we can then have 3 unproven guys on the roster to confuse the situation even further.

McCown was told that there would be an open QB competition in training camp, and I don't think they lied to him about that. (If they did it would hurt their ability to sign other guys in the future)

Whoever wins the job will be the guy for awhile. Parcells history with QB's shows that he's very patient with guys who are learning to play the most difficult position in all of sports.

He stuck with Quincy Carter for two and a half years.

During Drew Bledsoe's first three years his QB ratings were 65.0, 73.6, and 63.7.

IF the front office decides that neither of these guys are the QB of the future for us, then they will address the position in another draft/offseason. There simply isn't enough information available on either of them to pass judgement yet, and this team has too many immediate needs to be using a high draft pick on a player who will start off as #3 on the depth chart.

 

[Dfootball11]

you made about every point i have been tryin to make on every beck post... drafting a qb now only adds to our qb troubles.. just throws in another variable to have to sort out.. lets go with beck for now and see how it goes.. we have to secure a line, and defense before we can even start to make judgements on a qb

 

[PHINSfan]

Very good points! I believe that it really has to do with how the trifecta feels about a certain player. If they believe that a certain Qb is there, who happens to be their highest rated player, let's say after the 1st rd. They would probably get him. But I don't believe they will reach for a Qb. I trully think that with the trifecta....it's all about value pics.

 

[NorFlaFin]

Aside from Drew Bledsoe exactly which QB did Parcells draft high?

I've read were Parcell believes for his style of offense he can get a late round guy or UDFA and teach him the offense.

I disagree with Parcell on this point.

 

[BlueFin]

There seem to be two big camps here, pro-Beck and hate-Beck.

Almost all of the people who say we won't pick a QB this year follow that statement up with overflowing praise for Beck and his potential.

The people who think we will take a QB give us a list of reasons that Beck sucks and will never make it as an NFL QB.

I haven't passed judgement on Beck, or McCown....I have no opinion on either of them because I haven't seen enough of either one to form a judgement.

Even if I had, my personal judgement on whether a guy is good enough isn't going to influence what the dolphins are going to do this year. (and your personal judgement isn't going to influence them either)

The reason I don't think we're taking a QB in the 1st 5 rounds this year is because we have two young QB's on the roster (28 and 26) who have not had a chance to prove themselves in the league.

It makes no sense whatsoever to spend another high pick on a QB, so we can then have 3 unproven guys on the roster to confuse the situation even further.

McCown was told that there would be an open QB competition in training camp, and I don't think they lied to him about that. (If they did it would hurt their ability to sign other guys in the future)

Whoever wins the job will be the guy for awhile. Parcells history with QB's shows that he's very patient with guys who are learning to play the most difficult position in all of sports.

He stuck with Quincy Carter for two and a half years.

During Drew Bledsoe's first three years his QB ratings were 65.0, 73.6, and 63.7.

IF the front office decides that neither of these guys are the QB of the future for us, then they will address the position in another draft/offseason. There simply isn't enough information available on either of them to pass judgement yet, and this team has too many immediate needs to be using a high draft pick on a player who will start off as #3 on the depth chart.

For starters you're wrong, there are at least 3 camps, the 2 you mentioned and a 3rd camp, this camp agrees Beck is still in contention to start for this team, this camp likes Beck and wants him to succeed, but we don't want to stop looking for a great QB just because CAMRAN passed on Brady Quinn and chose John Beck in the second round.

As far as Josh McCown goes, hes been around too long to say he's never had a shot, I'm still hoping he transforms in a great one ,but I wouldn't place all my eggs in that basket, and I don't think we can afford too place all our eggs in John Beck's either.

This camp is not suggesting we wildly reach for QB prospects, this camp is suggesting that if a prospect falls to a Dolphin pick, and this staff is very high on him, and he is a very good value where we are picking, that we strongly consider drafting our 3rd QB. We need 3 quarterbacks anyway, it would best if this team had one more prospect at the most important position in football.

 

[Lenny]

For starters your wrong, there are at least 3 camps, the 2 you mentioned and a 3rd camp, this camp agrees Beck is still in contention to start for this team, this camp likes Beck and wants him to succeed, but we don't want stop looking for a great QB just because CAMRAN passed on Brady Quinn and chose John Beck in the second round.

As far as Josh McCown goes, hes been around too long to say he's never had a shot, I'm still hoping he transforms in a great one ,but I wouldn't place all my eggs in that basket, and I don't think we can afford too place all our eggs in John Beck's either.

This camp is not suggesting we wildly reach for QB prospects, this camp is suggesting that if a prospect falls to a Dolphin pick, and this staff is very high on him, and he is a very good value where we are picking, that we strongly consider drafting our 3rd QB. We need 3 quarterbacks anyway, it would best if this team had one more prospect at the most important position in football.

I never said they were the ONLY two camps, I said they were two big camps.....probably the two biggest.

Drafting another QB is fine, in like the 6th or 7th round....or pick up a guy after the June 1 cuts to fill out the depth chart.

Unlike other positions there are only so many QB reps to go around, so picking another guy high, to come in and be #3, doesn't make sense.
He'll be taking his reps with the scout team, like Beck did last year, and will be no closer to being ready to start at the end of the year than he was at the beginning.

With that being the case, we can use our 2nd and 3rd round picks on players that can help us right now, and if they decide they need to go in a different direction at QB when the year is over, they'll have a whole offseason in 2009 to address the situation.

Also, like I said before, this isn't a case for or against Beck or McCown or any guy coming out in this year's draft, it's just me trying to read the tea leaves and look at what I think the team will probably do (not what you or I want them to do or hope they will do)

 

[burger13]

For starters your wrong, there are at least 3 camps, the 2 you mentioned and a 3rd camp, this camp agrees Beck is still in contention to start for this team, this camp likes Beck and wants him to succeed, but we don't want stop looking for a great QB just because CAMRAN passed on Brady Quinn and chose John Beck in the second round.

As far as Josh McCown goes, hes been around too long to say he's never had a shot, I'm still hoping he transforms in a great one ,but I wouldn't place all my eggs in that basket, and I don't think we can afford too place all our eggs in John Beck's either.

This camp is not suggesting we wildly reach for QB prospects, this camp is suggesting that if a prospect falls to a Dolphin pick, and this staff is very high on him, and he is a very good value where we are picking, that we strongly consider drafting our 3rd QB. We need 3 quarterbacks anyway, it would best if this team had one more prospect at the most important position in football.

well, now you have at least 4 camps....because I agree with the 3rd camp, right up until the point you bring Brady Quinn into it.....what does a QB who has proven absolutley nothing in this league have to do with our QB situation. the 4th camp doesn't think that the name Brady Quinn has any place in Dolphins QB discussions.

anyone from a 5th group? :beer1:

 

[moonman]

The only reason why he MIGHT take a QB in one of the later rounds is because we simply need one more body in the depth chart.

 

[burger13]

There seem to be two big camps here, pro-Beck and hate-Beck.

Almost all of the people who say we won't pick a QB this year follow that statement up with overflowing praise for Beck and his potential.

The people who think we will take a QB give us a list of reasons that Beck sucks and will never make it as an NFL QB.

I haven't passed judgement on Beck, or McCown....I have no opinion on either of them because I haven't seen enough of either one to form a judgement.

Even if I had, my personal judgement on whether a guy is good enough isn't going to influence what the dolphins are going to do this year. (and your personal judgement isn't going to influence them either)

The reason I don't think we're taking a QB in the 1st 5 rounds this year is because we have two young QB's on the roster (28 and 26) who have not had a chance to prove themselves in the league.

It makes no sense whatsoever to spend another high pick on a QB, so we can then have 3 unproven guys on the roster to confuse the situation even further.

McCown was told that there would be an open QB competition in training camp, and I don't think they lied to him about that. (If they did it would hurt their ability to sign other guys in the future)

Whoever wins the job will be the guy for awhile. Parcells history with QB's shows that he's very patient with guys who are learning to play the most difficult position in all of sports.

He stuck with Quincy Carter for two and a half years.

During Drew Bledsoe's first three years his QB ratings were 65.0, 73.6, and 63.7.

IF the front office decides that neither of these guys are the QB of the future for us, then they will address the position in another draft/offseason. There simply isn't enough information available on either of them to pass judgement yet, and this team has too many immediate needs to be using a high draft pick on a player who will start off as #3 on the depth chart.

I disagree with the '2 young QB's' theory.

we have 1 young QB IMO. McCown has been around the league for a while now, and has been given oppritunities....but he's never held on to a job, he's never excelled. Every team has let him walk. So I don't see him being the answer here. I'm fine with him being on the roster. fine with him being a starter for a time while we rebuild.....but I won't kid myself into thinking he needs a shot to be our future.

So that leaves Beck as our only current option as 'the future'....a little risky considering how little we know of what he can do.

At this point, QB should be treated the same as every other position in this draft. If there is value at a position where we could use competition, we should take that player.

 

[JsBaugh]

I think Kiper said it best, actually I have been saying it for months. If you like Beck you dont take a QB this year. Why you ask? Because Beck was taken in the 2nd last year and would be considered the teams future QB. I keep hearing people say that you can never have enough young QB's on the roster, so you draft one every year until you find one. That is probably the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time. It takes at least 3 years until you know if that QB is going to pan out. I guess if the plan was to draft one every year, throw him in the fire and see if he turns into Marino, then you might have an argument. The odds are so slim they are not worth the investment.
Beck is this teams young QB and some of you need to accept it. BP is going to give him the chance to learn the system and either succeed or fail, but dont expect Beck to be on a one year plan.
Last season BP stated how he handles young QB's. He said that their rookie year is a bye (time to make mistakes), the 2nd year they need to show they are learning the system and by the third year they need to show the ability to lead the team into the playoffs.

 

[Lenny]

I disagree with the '2 young QB's' theory.

we have 1 young QB IMO. McCown has been around the league for a while now, and has been given oppritunities....but he's never held on to a job, he's never excelled. Every team has let him walk. So I don't see him being the answer here. I'm fine with him being on the roster. fine with him being a starter for a time while we rebuild.....but I won't kid myself into thinking he needs a shot to be our future.

So that leaves Beck as our only current option as 'the future'....a little risky considering how little we know of what he can do.

At this point, QB should be treated the same as every other position in this draft. If there is value at a position where we could use competition, we should take that player.

28 is young for an NFL QB, whether you agree with that or not.

He was never given a Parcells type of opportunity to play QB anywhere he has been. He had brief stints in Arizona, Detroit, and Oakland.
Not exactly quarterback factories....or places where there was stability at the head coach/general manager level.

Also something to note...the teams McCown played for had a higher winning percentage when he was starting than they had with whoever replaced him or preceded him at the QB spot. His QB ratings his first 3 years were higher than Drew Bledsoe's ratings his first 3 years....and Bledsoe had ALOT more talent around him than McCown ever had.

He has lots of potential, he just hasn't been given a chance to stay long enough in one system, with one coach, to develop into a starting QB.
That very well may change starting this year in Miami.

 

[Lenny]

I think Kiper said it best, actually I have been saying it for months. If you like Beck you dont take a QB this year. Why you ask? Because Beck was taken in the 2nd last year and would be considered the teams future QB. I keep hearing people say that you can never have enough young QB's on the roster, so you draft one every year until you find one. That is probably the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time. It takes at least 3 years until you know if that QB is going to pan out. I guess if the plan was to draft one every year, throw him in the fire and see if he turns into Marino, then you might have an argument. The odds are so slim they are not worth the investment.
Beck is this teams young QB and some of you need to accept it. BP is going to give him the chance to learn the system and either succeed or fail, but dont expect Beck to be on a one year plan.
Last season BP stated how he handles young QB's. He said that their rookie year is a bye (time to make mistakes), the 2nd year they need to show they are learning the system and by the third year they need to show the ability to lead the team into the playoffs.

I agree with Kiper on this also.

If you're the Dolphins and you're taking a QB this year then you take Matt Ryan, or else you don't take a QB at all.

 

[burger13]

28 is young for an NFL QB, whether you agree with that or not.

He was never given a Parcells type of opportunity to play QB anywhere he has been. He had brief stints in Arizona, Detroit, and Oakland.
Not exactly quarterback factories....or places where there was stability at the head coach/general manager level.

Also something to note...the teams McCown played for had a higher winning percentage when he was starting than they had with whoever replaced him or preceded him at the QB spot. His QB ratings his first 3 years were higher than Drew Bledsoe's ratings his first 3 years....and Bledsoe had ALOT more talent around him than McCown ever had.

He has lots of potential, he just hasn't been given a chance to stay long enough in one system, with one coach, to develop into a starting QB.
That very well may change starting this year in Miami.

age ain't nothin but a number (wasn't that a song or something?)

Josh McCown isn't a young QB because he's been in the league for 6 years already. He's received chances to start.....and has never become 'the man' anywhere. He was in Arizona, started games, but they went out and got Kurt Warner to replace him. Warner couldn't stay healthy, McCown starts again....do they stick with him? Nope, they draft Leinart and let him walk.

Detroit? Couldn't beat out journeyman Jon Kitna.

Oakland? He did beat out Dolphin castoff Daunte Culpepper, and they had already drafted JaMarcus....so i'll give him a pass on this one.

But in 6 seasons, his claim to fame seems to be beating out Shaun King for the starting job in Arizona in '04. and even when he's earned playing time, he hasn't made a big enough impression for teams to keep him around.

McCown's career isn't over at 28.....he could have a Rich Gannon-like turnaround.....but I'm not holding my breath, and I doubt the Dolphins are either.

 

[Lenny]

age ain't nothin but a number (wasn't that a song or something?)

Josh McCown isn't a young QB because he's been in the league for 6 years already. He's received chances to start.....and has never become 'the man' anywhere. He was in Arizona, started games, but they went out and got Kurt Warner to replace him. Warner couldn't stay healthy, McCown starts again....do they stick with him? Nope, they draft Leinart and let him walk.

Detroit? Couldn't beat out journeyman Jon Kitna.

Oakland? He did beat out Dolphin castoff Daunte Culpepper, and they had already drafted JaMarcus....so i'll give him a pass on this one.

But in 6 seasons, his claim to fame seems to be beating out Shaun King for the starting job in Arizona in '04. and even when he's earned playing time, he hasn't made a big enough impression for teams to keep him around.

McCown's career isn't over at 28.....he could have a Rich Gannon-like turnaround.....but I'm not holding my breath, and I doubt the Dolphins are either.

I never said I was in love with the guy....but what I'm saying is that we have two unproven guys on the roster on the right side of 30.
One or both of them needs a chance to prove themselves.

Throwing a guy like Flacco or Henne or Brohm into the mix just doesn't make sense because they're not going to get any meaningful reps in our offense.

We go into this season with these two guys, and probably either a 6th or 7th round pick or someone else's June 1 cut (Chris Simms hopefully).....and by the end of this season we'll have a much better idea of what our QB situation really is.
We'll either have someone we can build around, or we'll know that we need someone new....but using a high draft pick this year in case we need another QB next year makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[burger13]

I never said I was in love with the guy....but what I'm saying is that we have two unproven guys on the roster on the right side of 30.
One or both of them needs a chance to prove themselves.

Throwing a guy like Flacco or Henne or Brohm into the mix just doesn't make sense because they're not going to get any meaningful reps in our offense.

We go into this season with these two guys, and probably either a 6th or 7th round pick or someone else's June 1 cut (Chris Simms hopefully).....and by the end of this season we'll have a much better idea of what our QB situation really is.
We'll either have someone we can build around, or we'll know that we need someone new....but using a high draft pick this year in case we need another QB next year makes no sense whatsoever.

well, I think that we agree for the most part.....we both think that it would be good to have at least 2 options to be the future QB on the roster this year. the only place we disagree is that you think McCown is a viable option for that, while I don't.