In the meantime, your tanking coach and staff will be picking your QB of the future, It won’t be the new staff. You want a crappy staff to run the team into the ground all while that same inept staff picks your most i'portant position for the future. I don’t know why so many fans think tanking is the answer...
Will Flores Break The Bad Belichek Tree Trend?
- Thread starter BlueFin
- Start date
Dolphins81
Basement Dweller
Well, we already have a potential tanking coach and staff in place. Let’s just hope they don’t think that are outsmarting everyone and draft more players like DVP or Harris.
fish fan 4 life
Pro Bowler
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2004
- Messages
- 2,095
- Reaction score
- 2
I doubt it!
"Dolphins general manager Chris Grier, who used to work in New England, has been highly impressed with Flores and his knowledge of "The Patriot Way."-Schefter
The Bellicheat way.
TarHeelFinFan
Goodness Gracious Great Balls of Fire
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2004
- Messages
- 5,195
- Reaction score
- 2,778
- Age
- 40
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC/ Sunrise, FL
No, you fire them before the draft you pick that QB.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2008
- Messages
- 11,484
- Reaction score
- 14,704
There's always an element of chance in hiring a new head coach. But, typically there are indicators, predictors of success, that form the foundation of the decision to hire. So far, the only indicators of success I've seen are association with Belichick and personal knowledge of Grier. Since I don't know what Grier knows, I can't evaluate that one. But I can say that it does not appear the New England coaching staff has ever had a culture of teaching coaching.
It's one thing to carry out an order, be a good soldier. I think the Patriots organization does a fantastic job of that up and down the tree both coaches and players. That is the basis of that entire organization, and why their motto is "Do your job." Because a marine's job is not to question why, a marine's job is to do or die. Belichick has a lot of military exposure, and he runs his teams in a military manner. Information is on a need to know basis. Belichick listens to all of the strategy, then chooses the course of the ship, and then implements the strategies he wants, both on offense and defense. Of his coaches that have gone elsewhere, the only ones I can recall him really missing/fearing were Josh McDaniels and Romeo Crenel, both of whom seem to have been very good coaches in their own right.
Most coaching staffs have a group pow wow where the coaches share information freely across the entire coaching staff, or across the entire offense, or entire defense. I'm not sure Belichick does a lot of that. So his staff never knows the full story, only Belichick does. Sure, nothing ever leaks. Sure, it clearly works when you have someone as talented as Belichick leading the way, and it compartmentalizes information making it harder to be caught cheating … and Belichick doesn't seem to have any compunction about cheating either.
But there is another element missing from the Belichick coaching tree. On most staffs the more experienced guys TEACH the younger coaches why they do things, what consequences they're avoiding by making those decisions, how it all fits into the larger picture, why tactic X works for some players and not for others, examples of their previous coaching experiences and how these things worked and why they worked out that way. Just as teaching is a crucial element in coaching players, it is a valuable element for young coaches to be taught by more experienced coaches.
Belichick not only doesn't promote coaches teaching coaches, he discourages it. So his coaches end up being good marines, people who do exactly what they're told and implement his decisions. For most things, they can figure out the why, but maybe not much over half of them. There are a lot of decisions where they misinterpret the why or they simply don't know the why, and so they end up making lots of bad decisions and having difficulty putting those into context to effectively learn from those poor decisions.
I'm not knocking Bill Belichick's coaching methodology, it obviously works for him. But I have zero faith in that methodology for his coaching tree. I give Flores no credit for having worked with Belichick this long, because I don't see evidence of his success without Belichick, and I have no faith that Belichick helped any of his staff learn. So essentially, without some other independent indicator of success, I can't get behind the Flores choice if that is the one we make. Nothing against Flores, but Bill Belichick doesn't help coaches learn.
It's one thing to carry out an order, be a good soldier. I think the Patriots organization does a fantastic job of that up and down the tree both coaches and players. That is the basis of that entire organization, and why their motto is "Do your job." Because a marine's job is not to question why, a marine's job is to do or die. Belichick has a lot of military exposure, and he runs his teams in a military manner. Information is on a need to know basis. Belichick listens to all of the strategy, then chooses the course of the ship, and then implements the strategies he wants, both on offense and defense. Of his coaches that have gone elsewhere, the only ones I can recall him really missing/fearing were Josh McDaniels and Romeo Crenel, both of whom seem to have been very good coaches in their own right.
Most coaching staffs have a group pow wow where the coaches share information freely across the entire coaching staff, or across the entire offense, or entire defense. I'm not sure Belichick does a lot of that. So his staff never knows the full story, only Belichick does. Sure, nothing ever leaks. Sure, it clearly works when you have someone as talented as Belichick leading the way, and it compartmentalizes information making it harder to be caught cheating … and Belichick doesn't seem to have any compunction about cheating either.
But there is another element missing from the Belichick coaching tree. On most staffs the more experienced guys TEACH the younger coaches why they do things, what consequences they're avoiding by making those decisions, how it all fits into the larger picture, why tactic X works for some players and not for others, examples of their previous coaching experiences and how these things worked and why they worked out that way. Just as teaching is a crucial element in coaching players, it is a valuable element for young coaches to be taught by more experienced coaches.
Belichick not only doesn't promote coaches teaching coaches, he discourages it. So his coaches end up being good marines, people who do exactly what they're told and implement his decisions. For most things, they can figure out the why, but maybe not much over half of them. There are a lot of decisions where they misinterpret the why or they simply don't know the why, and so they end up making lots of bad decisions and having difficulty putting those into context to effectively learn from those poor decisions.
I'm not knocking Bill Belichick's coaching methodology, it obviously works for him. But I have zero faith in that methodology for his coaching tree. I give Flores no credit for having worked with Belichick this long, because I don't see evidence of his success without Belichick, and I have no faith that Belichick helped any of his staff learn. So essentially, without some other independent indicator of success, I can't get behind the Flores choice if that is the one we make. Nothing against Flores, but Bill Belichick doesn't help coaches learn.
The not earning the DC position is being taken out of context. BB dors this so his coaches are less likely to be poached. He started this after Pees was hired away in 2009 or 2010. He did the same with Patricia.
Yeah this whole thing his money. I'm willing to give the guy a chance as I'm sure you are. The one thing I just can't get over is the fact that he has only seen the Patriots at their best.
His worst season was an 11-5 year they didn't win the division and missed the playoffs due to Brady being injured. His worst experience in a loss was not finishing the season undefeated. He has seen an unprecedented amount of success while with them.
I just worry that when the season gets hard and injuries and losses like up, he can't handle it. He won't have Belichick and Brady to power through those moments. That accounts for a huge amount of their success. We saw what happened when Gase felt that pressure
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2008
- Messages
- 11,484
- Reaction score
- 14,704
Of course I'm willing to give him a chance. I'm hoping he's great!
But just because he was with the Patriots and the Patriots won is no real indicator of success unless one is trying to use the transitive property incorrectly. I'm very strongly hoping that Chris Grier, who has done a good job accumulating talent for the Dolphins, knows something that we don't know about Brian Flores and that Flores in indeed the next Don Shula … but he hasn't shared that with me, so I have nothing on which to go to make that leap of faith. I hope Chris Grier is right, because if he hires Flores that is 100% on Grier, because if Grier is wrong about Flores, the next culling will almost undoubtedly include both Flores and Grier.
Padrefinfan
Active Roster
With the current direction the team is finally embracing and the reasons they are hiring him, yes. From what I have heard and I think they believe..... Grier is comfortable with him and they are close. He used to be a scout, perfect. He will be able to evaluate talent and assess talent accordingly. Plus the fact that he has coached multiple positions helps with that. He is a mans, man that the players can relate to. This isn't high school ball. Let the Coordinators coordinate and let the coach make sure everybody is doing their job. So as long as he can lead the players/coaches, they believe in him and he them, I like the hire.
Agua
Fighting the media, one lie at a time
Yeah, especially if he's your position coach and you hear it every day. It's a bit more impressive when it comes from your HC that doesn't grind your ass every day.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2012
- Messages
- 13,248
- Reaction score
- 31,894
It would certainly seem, looking at this hire rationally based on what's been "proven," the odds of it being
a successful move are rather slim. But the odds of any new HC are low to begin with -- the vast majority
seem to fail. This is definitely a "reach" move based on pure projection as opposed to proven results...
I want to see what the staff looks like and really hope we go aggressive with some young gun
as OC -- or at least have someone like that in a role where we can implement a heavy RPO
quick paced attack from every angle O. I definitely don't want to see another "me2"
pro O that needs a super star QB to perform...
But hey -- I just want to see some entertaining football from our team.
It's funny cause I really wanted Richard(of the ones they spoke to)and I'm not high on Flores, however, even a broken clock is right twice a day. Could it be that at last something will work our way? I'll be rooting for him to do well even if he's not my choice.
Semedi
Pro Bowler
No.