Will Grier Vs. Drew Locke | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Will Grier Vs. Drew Locke

The Combine measurement involves a radar gun put in just the right spot to do a point measurement on an out route. I have issues with that, as it's extremely specific, and from a physics standpoint a football throw is significantly different from a baseball throw. It's a good data point to have, as all well-measured data points are good data points, but people get a bit religious about it sometimes and that's how you get folks believing that DeShaun Watson has a weak arm when he has nothing of the sort.

As for the college measurements I do, as well as the pro measurements, sophisticated video and graphics editing software and techniques that I've developed over the years make it quite a bit more than just an "eye-ball" test, though I will admit that there is SOME amount of room on the very margin for judgment, and like anything, that judgment is going to be better when informed by long hours and long years of experience. Which I have.

Thanks again for the insight
 
Isn't he 6'2" - 220 or so?

He's LISTED at 6'2" and 221 lbs.

I don't know what his height really is. I could probably find out. But his weight isn't even close to 221 lbs. I know someone who is friends with the NDSU head trainer. They say that Easton aims for 205 lbs and his actual playing weight right now is probably less.

Not unlike Aaron Rodgers, by the way, especially back at Cal.
 
Let me be clear about something, I don't believe DeShaun Watson has a weak arm. I never have. People bring that up to me when I discuss Will Grier primarily because Watson showed up at the Combine and had a dreadful radar gun reading, I believe 49 mph where other guys were getting 59 mph or 61 mph, etc...which only goes to show me why it can be foolish to put too much store in those radar readings.

I just clocked a throw of Watson's that tells me *everything* I need to know about the argument put forth by people about Watson's arm strength and velocity.

This is not the throw of a weak armed quarterback (minute 3:15 mark)



The Highest velocities recorded since they started testing are from Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield and Pat Mahomes, those are the only QB's to reach 60+ mph in the combine and that definitely matches up with what we see on the field so it's doing something right, but I would agree there's no way his arm is that weak but he was coming of an injury during that combine performance.
 
Easton Stick
HockeyStickMan_-_Easton_HTX_-_Pro_Stock_Hockey_Stick_-_Senior_766dc674-1ef0-4a10-8eb6-bd264e946e5f.jpg
 
There are a lot of reasons I don't like those Combine radar gun readings. I just don't see them translating as well to the stuff I get during the games. They do translate a good amount, but there's enough noise to lead you astray.
 
You are 100% right about the dead feet, but the arm talent is there. Can he be coached to move his feet better? What is crazy is that he is actually mobile and quick from watching the tape. His arm strength and his deep ball accuracy seem to be the best from the QB's I see in college right now, at least coming out in the draft. Who in your mind is better than him in those aspects?

His film pops because he has guys who can get him YAC TD's but he also has great touch passes deep that I am not seeing from other prospects.
Seems to be playing well as of late. I've taken a second look at him and there's no doubt his arm talent is NFL caliber, possibly the best in this draft class. His best tape is really impressive and that will get him drafted high. I think a coach like Gase could get his footwork moving in the right direction. He's interesting.
 
I think Will Grier had a fantastic college game tonight against Kyler Murray's Oklahoma Sooners.

But if any of those GMs sitting in the stands tonight (and supposedly, there were many, including Mike Tannenbaum) came away from there seeing the traits of a pro quarterback...I just can't agree with them. You saw him throw up about two dozen floaters tonight, because you're crazy if you DON'T throw deep against Oklahoma on a constant basis as you're either getting a flag or a catch, and I totally get that many of the throws required touch...but not ALL of them did. He doesn't do anything but float it...because he can't.

And he doesn't handle pressure well, when it does come in on him. The two fumbles returned for touchdowns put that on display.
 
I think Will Grier had a fantastic college game tonight against Kyler Murray's Oklahoma Sooners.

But if any of those GMs sitting in the stands tonight (and supposedly, there were many, including Mike Tannenbaum) came away from there seeing the traits of a pro quarterback...I just can't agree with them. You saw him throw up about two dozen floaters tonight, because you're crazy if you DON'T throw deep against Oklahoma on a constant basis as you're either getting a flag or a catch, and I totally get that many of the throws required touch...but not ALL of them did. He doesn't do anything but float it...because he can't.

And he doesn't handle pressure well, when it does come in on him. The two fumbles returned for touchdowns put that on display.

I hear you hard to judge him on tonight, even if the numbers are crazy over 500 yds and 5 tds. He did though go up a little in my estimation for one aspect, he was consistently finding his tight end up the middle with excellent play action. Just little dump offs but that was something I hadn't seen before. There is a NFL player there, even with that questionable arm strength I feel and someone will gamble. I'm not sure it should be us, but tonight he and Lock moved up in my list, Minshew dropped like a stone he was absolute garbage tonight it testing conditions, with a conference final place on the line.

Think right now my list is in order, assuming all declare (which I know they won't):

Murray
Herbert
Haskins
Lock
Grier
Minshew
 
For those who think Lock will be around in the 2nd round, your kidding yourselves.
He’s a better prospect than Josh Allen IMHO.
In a QB starved draft, he will go top 10.
Teams that need a QB will need to be in the top 10, as it usually is every year.
 
For those who think Lock will be around in the 2nd round, your kidding yourselves.
He’s a better prospect than Josh Allen IMHO.
In a QB starved draft, he will go top 10.
Teams that need a QB will need to be in the top 10, as it usually is every year.

I agree, John Elway was at their game yesterday, Lock fits the MO there, think he's probably gone before we pick. I've liked what I've seen from him this season, he's really matured playing very very well right now. I would definitely move up for Herbert or Haskins, but not 100% sure on moving up for Lock despite what I've said, Slimm's complete hate for the guy and CK's indifference has me somewhat concerned. If any of these three fall to us though, I would not think twice about pulling the trigger.
 
I agree, John Elway was at their game yesterday, Lock fits the MO there, think he's probably gone before we pick. I've liked what I've seen from him this season, he's really matured playing very very well right now. I would definitely move up for Herbert or Haskins, but not 100% sure on moving up for Lock despite what I've said, Slimm's complete hate for the guy and CK's indifference has me somewhat concerned. If any of these three fall to us though, I would not think twice about pulling the trigger.

I’m as big a Haskins fan as anyone but I’m not sure I trade up for any QB this year. I guess I’ll need to hear how each QB interviews before I commit.
 
I agree, John Elway was at their game yesterday, Lock fits the MO there, think he's probably gone before we pick. I've liked what I've seen from him this season, he's really matured playing very very well right now. I would definitely move up for Herbert or Haskins, but not 100% sure on moving up for Lock despite what I've said, Slimm's complete hate for the guy and CK's indifference has me somewhat concerned. If any of these three fall to us though, I would not think twice about pulling the trigger.

I probably don't hate Lock as much as you think. But I do think he has a few weaknesses that you typically see with quarterbacks who struggle with consistency at the next level and tend to have too many really bad games in the NFL.

What I hate is drafting mediocre quarterbacks too high because of one trait.

I've talked briefly about my concern in regards to how he's yet to develop throwing nuanced passes - passes that require touch. Taking a little off so you can drop it behind the LB level and in front of the DB level. He throws everything sidearm and with too low of a trajectory. It's why he struggles throwing into the middle of the field. You're going to have to get his arm slot up to 3/4 and get him away from all that sidearm motion. Otherwise, you can't throw into the middle of the field or up the seam with any consistency.

Rick Neuheisel harped on a lot of this during the game.

Lock has definitely improved his decision making and accounting for box defenders much better late in the season. He's playing better, but the competition also got a little easier.
 
I probably don't hate Lock as much as you think. But I do think he has a few weaknesses that you typically see with quarterbacks who struggle with consistency at the next level and tend to have too many really bad games in the NFL.

What I hate is drafting mediocre quarterbacks too high because of one trait.

I've talked briefly about my concern in regards to how he's yet to develop throwing nuanced passes - passes that require touch. Taking a little off so you can drop it behind the LB level and in front of the DB level. He throws everything sidearm and with too low of a trajectory. It's why he struggles throwing into the middle of the field. You're going to have to get his arm slot up to 3/4 and get him away from all that sidearm motion. Otherwise, you can't throw into the middle of the field or up the seam with any consistency.

Rick Neuheisel harped on a lot of this during the game.

Lock has definitely improved his decision making and accounting for box defenders much better late in the season. He's playing better, but the competition also got a little easier.

Where would you draft him, if you were picking, or would you still stay clear ? Are his problems fixable ?
 
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