Winning & Losing : The Truth

If you aren’t trying to win you are in effect setting yourself up to lose?


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Bumpus

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The welfare system within the league and league structure wasn't the same during Lombardi's day. The league is different now.

You could build a team and keep it together back then. You can't do that now.

Furthermore, it wasn't all about the quarterback and only the quarterback back then. It was about the team. It's all about the QB now - and if you don't have an elite QB - you do whatever it takes to get one.

Miami has formed plenty of bad habits by not being honest with themselves. Thinking you can win when you can't is a bad habit.

If you're not using the way the league is set up to benefit bad teams to your advantage, then you're not trying to win. It's just different now.
Then again, what say next offseason you get hit by a bus? Or, your health deteriorates to the point where you couldn’t give two ****s about what a football even is?

Woohoo! So glad we tanked!



You’ll never see me accepting or excited at the prospect of losing. Ever.
 

Pachyderm_Wave

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Then again, what say next offseason you get hit by a bus? Or, your health deteriorates to the point where you couldn’t give two ****s about what a football even is?

Woohoo! So glad we tanked!



You’ll never see me accepting or excited at the prospect of losing. Ever.

If the Dolphins never win another football game it don't bother me one bit. That's the difference. I don't care what they do. I don't watch many NFL games. But I do see a little bit of film. I know what's going on.

If I get hit by a bus next off season - I watched Bama win 6 national championships in the past 27 years. I feel fortunate. Blessed. I'm good. In a way I wish a lot of Dolphins fans could experience the same thing. But then again - a lot of 'em just don't deserve to. They deserve exactly what they have to sit through every year.
 

Trade Viper

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Wow, lot of emotion here.

So you find a 1967 Corvette L88 Coupe in a barn, you buy it for $25,000., but you want to win now, read that to mean you want to take it to Barrett Jackson and "hope" for the best return on your 25k, so you put new tires on it, replace the hoses, get the engine running, and even though the engine has two dead holes, you merrily take the vehicle to the auction, where you are dismayed to find that your reserve isn't even close to being hit. So you take the car home, remove the factory engine and put in a GM crate engine, and clean up the interior a bit, and put an 8ball shift knob on it and hang fuzzy dice in the rear view mirror. You then have it shipped to Mecum in Vegas, annnnnnnd your reserve is not hit again.

OR, you take your barn find to a specialty Corvette restorer who then takes the whole vehicle apart, and restores it to a Documented, National Corvette Restorers Society’s specifications. Of course the restoration takes time and money, about 100k because the car was in worse condition than you thought. But after it is finished you take it, and the documentation to Amelia Island to show off, and to create some buzz in the "community". Now again all of this takes time and more money. So finally you consign with Barrett Jackson for the car to be presented on Sunday, annnnnd it goes for 4.2 Million. (I get this number from the last one in 2013 that sold for 3.4M).

The moral of the story, the Phins have been the first example for too many years, this roster is horrible, and the concept just trying to patch it up, and "if we just make it to the playoffs anything can happen" is stupid and short sighted.

I hope this is a Strategic rebuild, from the ground up, and if it is, then the team can reap the benefits of a long run of historical proportions.Winning needs to be strategic and not just tactical, in other words, trying to "win" by bringing in high priced free agents just does not work, and neither does hanging on to older under-productive players, it has to be for the "long game" and not just for this Sunday.

The Ever Long Game VIPER
 

BlueFin

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If the Dolphins never win another football game it don't bother me one bit. That's the difference. I don't care what they do. I don't watch many NFL games. But I do see a little bit of film. I know what's going on.

If I get hit by a bus next off season - I watched Bama win 6 national championships in the past 27 years. I feel fortunate. Blessed. I'm good. In a way I wish a lot of Dolphins fans could experience the same thing. But then again - a lot of 'em just don't deserve to. They deserve exactly what they have to sit through every year.
Huh? I watched the Dolphins go 17-0... no team in NFL history did that... I’ll take that over another college championship... that is a real rare accomplishment... only one stands on that stage!
 

39wildman

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That’s not the point.... the giants got tired of Beckham’s ego....They are not boys anymore.

The best football teams are made up of unselfish team first type players....you get too many selfish players on a team and it will fail.
the NFL is about money. Owners and players are greedy..it no team first anymore. The only team first in NFL is fans.
 

z926538

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You two could be right, but I
still think attitude and heart will out do better talent...even the Patriots did not get Brady in the 1st.
Five years after Brady was drafted every owner in the league should have been asking their scouting department and their GMs (if these people were still around) why they missed 5 separate times on this pick. Because whatever metrics the entire NFL was using to judge QBs at that time proved to be wrong.

That's one of the problems in the NFL -- there's no accountability to the scouts when they horribly miss on talent.
 

Pachyderm_Wave

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Five years after Brady was drafted every owner in the league should have been asking their scouting department and their GMs (if these people were still around) why they missed 5 separate times on this pick. Because whatever metrics the entire NFL was using to judge QBs at that time proved to be wrong.

That's one of the problems in the NFL -- there's no accountability to the scouts when they horribly miss on talent.

Absolutely right. What it comes down to are the general accepted practices and guidelines scouts use to evaluate players, specifically quarterbacks. Meeting minimum threshold 'criteria' in terms of starts, wins, athleticism, etc.

Lloyd Carr never really allowed Brady the right to the starting job despite his brilliance every time he was on it for Michigan. He kept swapping him out for Drew Henson and Brady would literally have to lead huge comebacks in the second half and dig Michigan out of holes that Henson had put them in. Therefore, he was never really allowed to reach minimum thresholds for 'starts' through technicalities.

However, if you actually watched the guy play every Saturday - what he was doing was special. He made every throw to every area of the field. The clutchness of his play was literally off the charts. I'll never forget Brady's last game against Alabama in the Orange Bowl. Shaun Alexander was running all over Michigan and they couldn't stop him. Chris Samuels was kicking *** all over the place up front for the Tide. Yet Brady kept leading them back. He overcame 2 touchdown deficits twice in that game to lead Michigan to the win.

Nobody could've predicted what Tom Brady has done. But you're right - he wasn't a 6th rounder either.
 

ChrisEAS

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The world isnt what it used to be. And it will get worse. James gets 51 million for being average? If any average joe works like James did, he'll get fired lol.

And guess what? It will get worse. In 10 years the spoiled brat kids of now will demand 20 million for being average, or else.

Winning isnt about spending, its about chemistry. The Pats dont spend top dollar, yet they do great every year.

I love my NFL and soccer, but soon enough it will get lame to watch. At least international soccer, World Cup, they play for love of country. League soccer? Same as NFL.
 

Digital

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The welfare system within the league and league structure wasn't the same during Lombardi's day. The league is different now.

You could build a team and keep it together back then. You can't do that now.

Furthermore, it wasn't all about the quarterback and only the quarterback back then. It was about the team. It's all about the QB now - and if you don't have an elite QB - you do whatever it takes to get one.

Miami has formed plenty of bad habits by not being honest with themselves. Thinking you can win when you can't is a bad habit.

If you're not using the way the league is set up to benefit bad teams to your advantage, then you're not trying to win. It's just different now.
This. Well said @TedSlimmJr
 

Digital

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We had a former Patriots guy as GM hire a Patriots Head Coach who is bringing in lots of coaches with Patriots connections. So it is reasonable to assume we'll be using a mindset similar to that of the Patriots. And if there's one thing that Belichick has consistently done it is exploit the rules, loopholes, and lack of rigor in their enforcement to take advantage of the way the game is set up. He's the guy famous for stacking compensatory draft picks, borderline farcical last minute substitutions, ball pressure, cutting out the other team's mic connection with the sideline on crucial plays, etc., etc., etc. Yeah, if Belichick were rebuilding from scratch today he definitely would consider tanking to stack draft picks.

We guaranteed Coach Flores' salary for so long because we're stacking draft picks … and the technique is called tanking. The focus is to get a great QB, who, as Slimm has so eloquently pointed out, wasn't nearly as big of a deal back in Vince Lombardi's days when they predominantly ran the ball. The game changed. We're taking advantage of the rules. Let's hope it works.
 

Phinatic8u

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We had a former Patriots guy as GM hire a Patriots Head Coach who is bringing in lots of coaches with Patriots connections. So it is reasonable to assume we'll be using a mindset similar to that of the Patriots. And if there's one thing that Belichick has consistently done it is exploit the rules, loopholes, and lack of rigor in their enforcement to take advantage of the way the game is set up. He's the guy famous for stacking compensatory draft picks, borderline farcical last minute substitutions, ball pressure, cutting out the other team's mic connection with the sideline on crucial plays, etc., etc., etc. Yeah, if Belichick were rebuilding from scratch today he definitely would consider tanking to stack draft picks.

We guaranteed Coach Flores' salary for so long because we're stacking draft picks … and the technique is called tanking. The focus is to get a great QB, who, as Slimm has so eloquently pointed out, wasn't nearly as big of a deal back in Vince Lombardi's days when they predominantly ran the ball. The game changed. We're taking advantage of the rules. Let's hope it works.
Then Miami needs to start unloading vets for picks, even if the are late rounders.
 

Digital

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LoL
I’m going to go do MMA, and I’m going to tank until I become the best.
Is there a mechanic that increases your ability every time you lose? Because that's the crux of tanking. It's different than just giving up.
 

Digital

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Then Miami needs to start unloading vets for picks, even if the are late rounders.
Yes and no. If the player is young enough to actually make it through and lead the rebuild phase that comes after the tanking, then it may make more sense to keep him--like Xavien Howard. But if he's too old to be useful on the other side, like Sitton, Quinn, and Wake, then we need to part ways. Yes, when we part ways we get whatever we can for them, and if we can't unload them for picks, then we just unload them.

The veterans you want in any rebuild are guys who are role models and locker room leaders to help mold the young players into the type of grinders and team-focused leaders that the coaches need to rebuild the team. Guys that can get the young players to buy-in to what the coaches are saying, that can get the players to work hard on their craft and realize their potential, that can get the young players to create a team dynamic and locker room that perpetuates this mentality … to build a culture of hard work, team-focus, and togetherness that the coaching staff can use to fuel decades of winning.

It's a culture change, and those veterans need to lead the way. It's not about eeking out a few wins today. It's about laying the foundation for a mentality that will survive long after they have gone. One that gets the most out of the players and can become the foundation of a winning team. That's why it's seldom high-priced stars … because they rarely have that focus, and they tend not to feel the appreciation for the incoming coach that makes them those type of leaders. That's why we get guys like Dwayne Allen, who do their job and impress on the youngsters that they need to do theirs as well. It doesn't happen overnight, but with the right mentality, it can happen.
 
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