Without Tannehill, We'd be the Browns (In-depth research)

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Aqua4Ever04, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    Tannehill is an 8-8 QB, it couldn't be more obvious, both from watching him play and analyzing his stats.
     
  2. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    Wrong! We have 8-8 talent.
     
  3. Liphinphan

    Liphinphan FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Was this the same in depth analysis that had you thinking Joe Philbin was the goods? If so, I think you need to find another way that is much more obvious...because it is not
     
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  4. FinaticalFinfan

    FinaticalFinfan Finatical Finfan Finheaven VIP

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    :laugh
     
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  5. Travis34

    Travis34 chea Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Any time he has no retort, your post / question just gets lost into the interwebz
     
  6. Liphinphan

    Liphinphan FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    He knows I have seen his routine before, the same old exact routine. That is why he does not respond. I just can't believe he just picked up from where he left off in getting banned in a previous place. So either he does not care or he really enjoys this silly game he plays
     
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  7. Ilovemyfins4eva

    Ilovemyfins4eva A True Fan Donator

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    come on man, thats absurd. ppl love doing this. when they want to make an argument to prop someone up, they will try and diminish how much talent a team has, so that whatever results we achieve, they can always argue that we overachieved.

    landry, parker, stills, drake, ajaji, are all talented offensive players. the qb position, that is all on gase, he went out and decided to pay cutler 10 million, a guy who when surrounded by a ton of talent during his prime was nothing special, yet now when the guy is 34 years old with having just missed basically an entire season due to injury, and had retired with the mindset of becoming an announcer, so how good of shape could he have been in, and yet he thinks that was a wise choice. Matt moore was never carrying us to the superbowl, but matt moore over his time with the dolphins has shown, when they play avg to below avg teams, he is able to perform at a competent level, and he struggles vs elite teams. basically we prob would have finished around between 6-10 and 8-8 with matt moore.


    Gase was brutal this season, and aside from his talent evaluation, or lack of, the team was totally undisciplined, which falls 100 percent on the coach.
     
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  8. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    [​IMG]
     
  9. Ilovemyfins4eva

    Ilovemyfins4eva A True Fan Donator

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    say what u want about joe philbin, but at the end of the day, miami without him has basically been the same garbage team, lack of discipline, losing to garbage teams, etc.

    remember tony sparano, the guy who everyone on here used as a punching bag? well he went 11-5 in his first season, that coming off a 1-15 season, with zero talent on the offensive side of the ball, but he had a good qb, one who finished runner up mvp to peyton that year, so we looked good.

    i didnt like philbin myself, as he seemed too robotic, but at the end of the day, this team will continue to be absolutely avg to below avg until we get a stud qb.

    adam gase has not proven squat yet, and this year he looked dreadful, and while he will deff get this year, he better fix the issues the team has specially the lack of discipline
     
  10. Liphinphan

    Liphinphan FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    You seem to disregard everything from Gase's first season and accentuate all from his second? Why is that? And with Philbin, he was given time and a chance to prove himself, Gase deserves at least that. On your point with Moore, How long did it take for him to be injured again and miss games? Would you have been happy to have Doughty or Fales playing a ton of snaps this year? Because that is what would have happened. Gase did make his mistakes, expected from a young new HC, lets see if he learns from it.
     
  11. JamesBW43

    JamesBW43 You're standing on my neck Finheaven VIP

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    I'm all about looking deeper but at the end of the day, wins are the only thing that matters. I think analyzing all the other factors helps when you're dealing with small sample sizes, but when the sample size gets large enough, I think you have to start looking to the QB as potentially the main factor for a team's wins/losses. I don't know if 5 years is a large enough sample size given Tannehill's specific situation, but I imagine we have to be getting close.
     
  12. Ilovemyfins4eva

    Ilovemyfins4eva A True Fan Donator

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    i would have gone with moore for this reason. jay cutler was bringing us nowhere. again as i stated, when the guy was in his prime surrounded by a ton of talent, his teams were always underachieving, with the exception of the 2010 season where they went to the nfc championship season ( i believe that was the year). If there was truly a top notch qb who had just retired, and gase was hoping to catch lightning in a bottle one more time from that guy ( like lets say peyton manning had retired last offseason, and while he wasnt great his final year, he had performed at a respectable level, so gase thought '' hey maybe i can bring him to miami, and he plays at an elite level again, that would be a situation i can understand chasing. The way he was so desperate for jay freaking cutler rubbed me the wrong way.

    with matt moore playing for us in 2011, he went 6-6 as a starter with not much talent around him. in 2016 as starter, he went 2-2, so basically matt moore as a starter is nowhere near great, but he can be avg, i would have started moore, and if he completely ****s the bed, since this season was going to be lost anyway, we get a top pick and gase can easily say '' what do u expect me to do with a backup qb''. gase only could have benefited from starting moore, because if he goes 7-9, 8-8 with moore, he looks like a genius.

    But your right, just like philbin, adam gase deserves and will get the upcoming season to prove himself, but if tannehill is healthy, there is zero excuse for him. while i am not high on tannehill like many on here, adam gase seems to be, so if he has his qb, no more excuses, and start having more control of ur team, because i dont care who the qb is, tannehill, moore, tom brady, whomever, there is zero excuse for the lack of discipline this team had this year, which falls 100 percent on gase
     
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  13. Liphinphan

    Liphinphan FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Reasonable. I just don't think many would have been OK with tanking the whole season. While it certainly did not work out with Cutler(dislike him), I won't kill Gase for taking a shot with him. Options were very limited at the time. He took a chance and it failed. Agreed on giving him at least this season to correct things. Too many obstacles last season to make definite assertions about his coaching and this team
     
  14. EvilDylan

    EvilDylan Banned Hammered Donator

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    Yep, same trash team.

    Nevermind they went to the playoffs last year despite several key injuries to the defense and offense.

    Do posters around here make it a point to purposefully forget the past so they can wallow in the most current trending failure? It's pretty fickle, to say the least.
     
  15. Ilovemyfins4eva

    Ilovemyfins4eva A True Fan Donator

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    yup thats fair. The only thing is , i dont know if it would have been tanking, because the injury to tannehill happened so late into training camp, so there was not much realistically we could have done. The only guy i would have gone out and made a pitch for ( and we know why it didnt happen obviously) but kapaernick would have been intriguing, and could have made the season exciting one way or another.

    i dont think he sucks, and we have seen him play at an elite level over a few seasons. maybe gase could have tried to work magic with him, but cutler just irks me.

    As we have discussed, penalties must be cut down drastically. ticky tack calls that the refs call, wtrvr nothing he can do about it, but pre snap penalties, unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, way too many. I will say this though, i do like his aggressiveness in certain situations, so i will give him props on that. But as we know, football is a results business, so for the coach, he needs to win.
     
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  16. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    I know Davone Bess, t3_3g9w92.jpg and I know what his problem was
     
  17. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer Tape Guys vs Analytics Guys Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I really don't know anything about his personal issues, and it wasn't a comment on them. He was a solid slot receiver. I'm just saying, we had someone on here saying he was a better playmaker than Calvin Johnson and I think we can all just have a laugh at that now, as we did then.
     
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  18. hoops

    hoops exited stage left Hammered

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    Op does tannehill tape study? Where can I go to see this analysis
     
  19. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth Taggart is my Homeboy Finheaven VIP

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    In the link in his post...

    Here is his twitter...
    https://twitter.com/wingfieldnfl?lang=en



    He's starting with his rookie year and working his way to the present...
     
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  20. vcip

    vcip Starter Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Nicely done and I 100% agree
     
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  21. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    What's friggin hilarious is we are 7 years in with this franchise QB, and the same arguments are being made. While you people continue to advocate overspending on a slot wr and dumpster diving for oline men.
     
  22. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    This whole thread is predictable. From the OP to the responses. We are 7 years in with tannehill, and today's debate is no different than it was 6 years ago. And here we are.....still spinning our wheels in the mud.
     
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  23. Aqua4Ever04

    Aqua4Ever04 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    And that will turn into an in-depth column. It'll be a five parter, one for each year. Expect it to roll out before free agency.
     
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  24. EvilDylan

    EvilDylan Banned Hammered Donator

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    what the hell are you talking about. Find anywhere I've said we should overspend for Landry or pick more linemen. Get a grip.
     
  25. Aqua4Ever04

    Aqua4Ever04 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    This is why it helps to read the article. You've created a straw man, and you're arguing with yourself. I'll leave you to it. Hope you win (but that means you lose too).
     
  26. hoops

    hoops exited stage left Hammered

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    Interesting. I’ve analyzed every throw and snap that qb has ever taken and know what it says so I hope you are on it.

    Make sure you post the segments out here for us common folk.
     
  27. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter Finheaven VIP

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    Hoops you really need to be VIP man. Some good info in there.
     
  28. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    I know you don't advocate picking oline high in the draft. Which is my main point. Get a grip? How about you comprehend what I actually wrote.
     
  29. phinschamp45

    phinschamp45 Well-Known Member

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    A reply to....without tannehill wed be the browns.....

    Well, we were without tannehill the entire year and we won 6 games.....The browns won 0 games...I say we still better than the browns without tannehill.....He will help us abit more but he isnt our savior.

    Our saviour Qb will be drafted in the first round this year in april. If not then they will regret it forever.

    We dont even know if tannehill can play in 2018. Gaze wants his own groomed qb.
     
  30. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Considering that in 2016 Tannehill had the 4th highest QBR from a clean pocket and overall, was the 3rd most accurate deep ball passer (obviously when having time to set up in the pocket of a 30th ranked OL), I for sure am advocating investing resources into the OL under the theory that based on anecdotal, undeniable evidence, that investment will reap dividends!
     
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  31. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat Finheaven VIP

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    [​IMG]
     
  32. Liphinphan

    Liphinphan FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    All I ask is people try to back up what they think with some facts, instead of general rants. Nobody knows who is right or wrong, but make a logical case
     
  33. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins Finheaven VIP

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    What if Ryan can't ever function at that level unless the pocket is always clean? Most teams don't have a clean pocket every play. The QB has to improvise on just about every NFL team. So putting up those stats is great but what team actually has that perfect case scenario of a clean pocket all the time so Ryan can thrive?
     
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  34. EvilDylan

    EvilDylan Banned Hammered Donator

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    What part am I missing here? You just lumped me into this category. Maybe you should proofread what you're writing so YOU can understand it better.
     
  35. hoops

    hoops exited stage left Hammered

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    I took a look at some of the twitter cut ups it’s good stuff. I think op was a little hard on tanny on one where he threw the corner instead of the dig looks like fasanos slow *** on the corner. Don’t think I would have dinged him for it other than the fact that fasano looks like he’s carrying a load in his pants on the route

    Might actually grade the qb harder than I do.

    One thing I do like seeing again is how tanny climbed the pocket at the end of his drop before we became the team that had the guards in his lead leg in a nanosecond for like 3 years there. When we had inside and outside pressure before his back foot could even hit those years of o line play.
     
  36. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    You're right, you can't expect a pocket to be clean - but through drafting and free agency you can make it cleaner. And that's why RT's 2016 top 3 accuracy on deep passes is relevant considering he operated mostly out of a dirty pocket. Imagine how many more passes he could have connected on with better protection!

    My concern is that his mobility suffers in buying time. That, and how vulnerable his knee may be to further injury are the reasons I'd love to see us trade up to get Mayfield and then let the chips fall where they may. Otherwise, I would be a strong "fix the OL as a top priority" advocate with no qualifications.
     
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  37. hoops

    hoops exited stage left Hammered

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    Well I hate to tell you this but you aren’t ever gonna get that when it comes to that qb when it comes to anyone who knows how to analyze that tape.

    I guarantee you that much.
     
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  38. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer Tape Guys vs Analytics Guys Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I don't want to agree with this, because I've made a New Year's resolution to be excellent to my fellow posting brothers, even when they are not being excellent themselves. But I can't really disagree with it.

    One thing I will say about Aqua posting some of those cuts from 2012 is that it really reinforces that 2012 Ryan Tannehill came into the NFL with a reasonably good feel for the pocket and some nice moves to escape pressure. 2016 Tannehill rediscovered a lot of that ability. It's a coachable trait.
     
  39. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer Tape Guys vs Analytics Guys Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Ultimately I think this is one of the more interesting Tannehill threads, just because it highlights the big dividing line between what I see as the two big camps in Dolphins fandom on the subject of Tannehill. Those who think that we surrounded him with crap and he elevated the crap to a functional level, and those who think that we surrounded him with good talent and he was a lead weight under it.

    One thing that I think all of us should agree on is that Joe Philbin did the Miami Dolphins a big disservice by putting Rishard Matthews in his doghouse as a rookie (Armon Binns? Anthony Armstrong? Legedu Naanee? Come on!) and only letting him out when his contract was just about to expire. Matthews is a good receiver, and the few times that he got on the field, he was extremely productive on a per-target basis, while also managing to get himself open for a high volume of targets.
     
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  40. hoops

    hoops exited stage left Hammered

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    I don't want to take this any further cause I want to see what he has to say on a yearly basis and I'm definitely gonna be asking for his take on some things and what was driving the results

    one things for sure he's going to be putting in a lot of time and effort
     

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