Would you welcome Juice back?

Sirspud

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Then why is he in Cleveland?
Because Adam Gase has shown he himself is the locker room cancer. Done it here and done it in NY. Yet people don't forgive players for righteously being ticked when their HC is both a jerk and not that good.
 

Russ57

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Surprised nobody mentioned he can't be relied on to run the correct route. Especially option routes where he has to read coverage and break a certain way based on defensive alignment.

There was a reason why Tannehill had to lock on and wait until he made his cut before throwing the ball.
 

Sirspud

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Surprised nobody mentioned he can't be relied on to run the correct route. Especially option routes where he has to read coverage and break a certain way based on defensive alignment.

There was a reason why Tannehill had to lock on and wait until he made his cut before throwing the ball.
I mean, the guy did catch more balls than any other Dolphin ever in a season (twice). He did lead the NFL in receptions. Seems like he ran the correct route for Tannehill enough.
 

Ray R

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Because Adam Gase has shown he himself is the locker room cancer. Done it here and done it in NY. Yet people don't forgive players for righteously being ticked when their HC is both a jerk and not that good.
I've seen many players on the team after Gase left say he was a good coach. Tannehill credited his success with the Titans last year to what he learned from Gase in Miami.

I've also seen the whiners complain after Gase left that it was all the fault of his attitudes.

It was often Gases' responsibility to discipline players, as with any HC. I remember Gase refused to let Ajayi dress for a game on the coast the beginning of his 1st year due to Ajayi's poor attitude. Later Ajayi acknowledged the correctness of Gases' action and a few games later had some 100 yard plus rushing games. I recall a 200 yard game or two. The results are credits to both the coach and the player.

Isn't Ajayi now out of the league after playing on some other teams? That can't be Gases' fault.

Doesn't sound like Gase is a bad coach to me. I find it curious that the Gase haters are coming to the surface after he's gone. I was sorry to see him leave, but I didn't let that color my positive attitudes about the arrival of coach Flores. I felt his history and success spoke for themselves and posted as much.

It makes more sense to me to focus on who is here as opposed to complaining about personnel who are no longer here. Those complaints are not only useless, but a look into the facts behind them usually show a limited analytical ability and questionable football knowledge of those posters.

If they have a distorted and biased view of the past it begs the question; how worthwhile can their current posts be?
 

CRIOS

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Oh yeah! But please leave your ego at the door. I know he could walk the talk but he lays it on rather thick don't you think? Regardless, I would welcome him back.
 

Sirspud

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It makes more sense to me to focus on who is here as opposed to complaining about personnel who are no longer here. Those complaints are not only useless, but a look into the facts behind them usually show a limited analytical ability and questionable football knowledge of those posters.

If they have a distorted and biased view of the past it begs the question; how worthwhile can their current posts be?
Hmm, I find quite the opposite to be true. I find that people who don't understand the role of coaching/management in player attitude, and can only ever find fault in player's they perceive to have "quit" on a team, are usually the ones lacking in analytical ability, and are usually only seeing attitude as a black and white issue where either a player is either disgruntled at some point, therefore "against the team", or they aren't. And this is very shallow.

First off, it doesn't allow for the fact that these are human beings who may be "disgruntled" because they very much want to win and want to perform well and they are upset when they see decisions being made that they know in their professional experience are bad. There are more bad head coaches in the NFL than good. Most get fired after a handful of years. Players not only want to win, their careers - meaning their entire livelihoods, their ability to provide for themselves and their families - are based on their production and success. We as fans reserve the right to get upset over bad coaching, and I get emotional after every loss. But God forbid a player whose future, and not just temporary happiness, get upset over things. No sir, not allowed.

But the other thing is just that, except for obvious head cases like Brandon Marshall and Antonio Brown, most disruptive players are the result of bad management. That's not just a football concept, that goes for anyone in the workplace. I can speak to you from experience, depending on who you ask, I'm either one of the easiest people to manage, as I come to work with integrity, drive, initiative, competency, and dependability. In a numbers-based job my numbers were consistently above average to excellent. I cared about my performance and if you knew what I was good at I would be the last person in a store you would ever have to worry about. Yet I got disgruntled with a couple managers over the years and had to arrange my way out - which my regional manager's were happy to comply with as they knew I was one of their most skilled and reliable employees, and the managers I was being transferred to were extremely happy to have me back. I was outspoken about things that were a bad idea and that I knew would impact my performance. But that was ultimately because I cared about my performance and doing well was important to me. So if things are black and white, maybe in some people's eyes I was an issue - but the one's I "quit" on were bad managers who regularly drove employees of all type away.

Football players are the same as anything else. Good coaches generally don't have players quit on them - in fact, the good ones are able to take in "bad character" guys and get to toe the line because they want to be a part of what they are building. Bad coaches don't get the best out of players. Bad coaches get rid of an inordinate amount of players for incidents, supposed character issues, and being disgruntled. That doesn't mean that the guys gotten rid of were saints, but I'm sure most weren't all demons either. The fact of the matter is bad coaches get the worst out of people - just like bad managers do - and often get bad responses out of good employees who are sick of their ****.

Adam Gase lost his job not just because the team performance at the end of his tenure was unacceptable, but because that was combined with him getting rid of more talent in the league than any other team in the league. It's good that players have had some nice things to say about him, I'm sure not all was bad. I'm sure he did teach some things to some players. But his lack of class and general poor management of his players is clearly evident and well known. I'm not going to try and convince you if you don't already believe what's already out there.

There are always people who can find fault with ex-Dolphins but as far as I can tell the only real issue that anybody could find with Landry is that he wanted to be paid a lot of money to stay here under a coach that it would seem he detested. A high contract demand when you have produced at a high level and your coach is deconstructing the roster around you isn't a character flaw.
 

Ray R

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Hmm, I find quite the opposite to be true. I find that people who don't understand the role of coaching/management in player attitude, and can only ever find fault in player's they perceive to have "quit" on a team, are usually the ones lacking in analytical ability, and are usually only seeing attitude as a black and white issue where either a player is either disgruntled at some point, therefore "against the team", or they aren't. And this is very shallow.

First off, it doesn't allow for the fact that these are human beings who may be "disgruntled" because they very much want to win and want to perform well and they are upset when they see decisions being made that they know in their professional experience are bad. There are more bad head coaches in the NFL than good. Most get fired after a handful of years. Players not only want to win, their careers - meaning their entire livelihoods, their ability to provide for themselves and their families - are based on their production and success. We as fans reserve the right to get upset over bad coaching, and I get emotional after every loss. But God forbid a player whose future, and not just temporary happiness, get upset over things. No sir, not allowed.

But the other thing is just that, except for obvious head cases like Brandon Marshall and Antonio Brown, most disruptive players are the result of bad management. That's not just a football concept, that goes for anyone in the workplace. I can speak to you from experience, depending on who you ask, I'm either one of the easiest people to manage, as I come to work with integrity, drive, initiative, competency, and dependability. In a numbers-based job my numbers were consistently above average to excellent. I cared about my performance and if you knew what I was good at I would be the last person in a store you would ever have to worry about. Yet I got disgruntled with a couple managers over the years and had to arrange my way out - which my regional manager's were happy to comply with as they knew I was one of their most skilled and reliable employees, and the managers I was being transferred to were extremely happy to have me back. I was outspoken about things that were a bad idea and that I knew would impact my performance. But that was ultimately because I cared about my performance and doing well was important to me. So if things are black and white, maybe in some people's eyes I was an issue - but the one's I "quit" on were bad managers who regularly drove employees of all type away.

Football players are the same as anything else. Good coaches generally don't have players quit on them - in fact, the good ones are able to take in "bad character" guys and get to toe the line because they want to be a part of what they are building. Bad coaches don't get the best out of players. Bad coaches get rid of an inordinate amount of players for incidents, supposed character issues, and being disgruntled. That doesn't mean that the guys gotten rid of were saints, but I'm sure most weren't all demons either. The fact of the matter is bad coaches get the worst out of people - just like bad managers do - and often get bad responses out of good employees who are sick of their ****.

Adam Gase lost his job not just because the team performance at the end of his tenure was unacceptable, but because that was combined with him getting rid of more talent in the league than any other team in the league. It's good that players have had some nice things to say about him, I'm sure not all was bad. I'm sure he did teach some things to some players. But his lack of class and general poor management of his players is clearly evident and well known. I'm not going to try and convince you if you don't already believe what's already out there.

There are always people who can find fault with ex-Dolphins but as far as I can tell the only real issue that anybody could find with Landry is that he wanted to be paid a lot of money to stay here under a coach that it would seem he detested. A high contract demand when you have produced at a high level and your coach is deconstructing the roster around you isn't a character flaw.
I disagree, but at least you made a consistent case for your opinion.
 
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