WVDolphan's Get Real - "The Patriot Way" is a total crock.

[MD]

Bill Belichick is pretty overrated, but he IS a very good coach. He is a poor GM, though.

His Cleveland record speaks for itself. His first year with the Pats he was 5-11. His second season he started 0-2 then voila. Enter Tom Brady. He has ridden Brady's coat tails and I am betting he retires when Brady does.

 

[dlockz]

Yea belichek is so overrated with his 3 superbowl rings as coach, 2 as assistant coach and dominating our division for the past decade.
So please tell me this if he was coach of the dolphins and he accomplished this , Im pretty sure none of us would be calling him overrated, in fact we would be calling him maybe the best cpach of all time.
So I guess Brady is the greatest NFL player of all time because he is the only qb that just by being on a team they have won championships. Much greater than any other qb in the history of the NFL I guess.
I think Shula was one of the best coaches of all time and even with Dan Marino he didnt win a superbowl. How many superbowls does Aaron Rodgers have?
If all it took was having a great qb then Im sure the coaches of Peyton Manning are wondering what the hell they did wrong since he has won only one superbowl.

 

[dlockz]

The difference is BB failed in another spot while Walsh didn't and BB was failing in his current spot until Brady became the starter.

Rome isnt built in day. Nobody has won consistently in friggin Cleveland in the modern NFL for the most part.

Failing in NE cmon the guy had been there one season so u can hardly say he was failing as for in Cleveland he had the one good season but your right it didnt work out.
Bill Walsh only coached one team and during his whole time there Montanna was his qb. No qb in the history of sports has been so good that they would win no matter what was around him.
Marino was a beast and yet not one superbowl. Some people not me think Namath was a great qb and its not like the jets dominated the division with namath as qb for the whole time he was there.

 

[nyjunc]

Rome isnt built in day. Nobody has won consistently in friggin Cleveland in the modern NFL for the most part.

Failing in NE cmon the guy had been there one season so u can hardly say he was failing as for in Cleveland he had the one good season but your right it didnt work out.
Bill Walsh only coached one team and during his whole time there Montanna was his qb. No qb in the history of sports has been so good that they would win no matter what was around him.
Marino was a beast and yet not one superbowl. Some people not me think Namath was a great qb and its not like the jets dominated the division with namath as qb for the whole time he was there.

When BB took over they had just recently made THREE AFC Championship games so you could win in Cleveland.

Walsh never had a chance for people to doubt him b/c he always had Montana, unfortunately for BB he has coached w/o Brady and he was a total failure w/o him. I do think he developed into a top HC in NE BUT if Brady doesn't rescue his career he's a DC somewhere right now.

Bill Belichick w/ and w/o Tom Brady
w/ 14 games in 2001, 2002-2007 all 16 games, 2008 1 game, 2009-2012 all 16 games
(11 seasons, 175 games):
136-39, 78%
10 div titles
17-7 postseason record
5 AFC titles
3 SB titles
double digit wins in 10 seasons

w/o
1991-1995 Browns, 2000 Pats, first 2 games of 2001 Pats, last 15 of 2008 Pats(7 seasons, 113 games)
51-62, 45%
zero div titles
1-1 postseason record
1 WC win
never even reached a title game

 

[jlfin]

The Patriot Way is about being a classy, professional, team driven football team.

Dolphin fans should learn how to be classy like Patriot fans, instead of a bunch of dumb asses.

Guys like Shula, Landry, Lombardi, Walsh and Noll set the standard for class in this league (winning with integrity). Your cheating, philandering head coach doesn't come close.

 

[Bumpus]

Im not a Patriots fan in the least but Im not so naive to think that havent ran that organization quite well under their current coach, much better than we have since Shula left.
The Pats are better because they have better coaching and better ownership than most NFL teams. Yes BRady is a big part of the equation but thats like saying Bill Walsh would not have won a superbowl without Joe Montanna. Don Shula had the best qb in the league in Marino and did not win one superbowl with him so no a qb no matter how good he is does not make it all happen by themself because I dont think any qb is better at his position than Dan MArino. I think people that dont really know football would come to conclusion that the only reason they win is BRady.
The dumbest thing in your thread was the Pats knew what they were getting, not one team knew that Hernadez was likely to commit a murder thats downright silly and lets not act like we havent taken chances on questionable character guys including recently signed and arrested Rodriguez.

Bull****. BB is 52-60 career without Brady.

He has exactly 2 seasons +.500 without him ... Once Tom Brady is gone, BB will be exposed for the overbearing pompous windbag that he is.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

His Cleveland record speaks for itself. His first year with the Pats he was 5-11. His second season he started 0-2 then voila. Enter Tom Brady. He has ridden Brady's coat tails and I am betting he retires when Brady does.

I don't think he's ever had amazing talent to work with, to be perfectly honest with you. Good defensive talent, yeah. But not amazing.

I agree with you that he lucked bigtime into getting an elite quarterback, but when push comes to shove, he's certainly at least a better than average NFL head coach, IMO.

 

[fishfanmiami]

When BB took over they had just recently made THREE AFC Championship games so you could win in Cleveland.

Walsh never had a chance for people to doubt him b/c he always had Montana, unfortunately for BB he has coached w/o Brady and he was a total failure w/o him. I do think he developed into a top HC in NE BUT if Brady doesn't rescue his career he's a DC somewhere right now.

Bill Belichick w/ and w/o Tom Brady
w/ 14 games in 2001, 2002-2007 all 16 games, 2008 1 game, 2009-2012 all 16 games
(11 seasons, 175 games):
136-39, 78%
10 div titles
17-7 postseason record
5 AFC titles
3 SB titles
double digit wins in 10 seasons

w/o
1991-1995 Browns, 2000 Pats, first 2 games of 2001 Pats, last 15 of 2008 Pats(7 seasons, 113 games)
51-62, 45%
zero div titles
1-1 postseason record
1 WC win
never even reached a title game

:up:

 

[dlockz]

for all these people that think Brady is the only reason he puts out a winning product please explain the 11-5 season with Matt Cassel. Also name every coach that has won superbowls with multiple qb's.
I think Bill Parcells would be all by himself in that category

---------- Post added at 10:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 PM ----------

Guys like Shula, Landry, Lombardi, Walsh and Noll set the standard for class in this league (winning with integrity). Your cheating, philandering head coach doesn't come close.

Shula is my favorite nfl coach all time but he did talk to another team while he was still coach of the Colts so that was not exactly a class move.

 

[dlockz]

all I got to say is that I guess on this board Brady is the most amazing qb to ever play the game since he is the only reason that NE continues to win. I wish Marino had been that good

 

[dlockz]

I don't think he's ever had amazing talent to work with, to be perfectly honest with you. Good defensive talent, yeah. But not amazing.

I agree with you that he lucked bigtime into getting an elite quarterback, but when push comes to shove, he's certainly at least a better than average NFL head coach, IMO.

he is a great coach , hell he put out a winning team forced to play Troy Brown at CB. Not sure where the fan blinders come in that people act like a guy with 5 superbowl rings is just another coach.

 

[MD]

Yea belichek is so overrated with his 3 superbowl rings as coach, 2 as assistant coach and dominating our division for the past decade.
So please tell me this if he was coach of the dolphins and he accomplished this , Im pretty sure none of us would be calling him overrated, in fact we would be calling him maybe the best cpach of all time.
So I guess Brady is the greatest NFL player of all time because he is the only qb that just by being on a team they have won championships. Much greater than any other qb in the history of the NFL I guess.
I think Shula was one of the best coaches of all time and even with Dan Marino he didnt win a superbowl. How many superbowls does Aaron Rodgers have?
If all it took was having a great qb then Im sure the coaches of Peyton Manning are wondering what the hell they did wrong since he has won only one superbowl.

am not saying he isn't a good coach but he is not the coach that some believe is the greatest ever.

Manning notoriously folds in the playoffs and is not the QB Brady is. Rogers is not the QB Brady is. Look at the WRs that Brady has won with, not a very impressive cast. Miami had Brady I am pretty sure we could have a 10 year run on he division when you look at what the AFC east has been since 2000. With the exception of a couple seasons, the Pats have not been pushed very hard by the Phins, Jets or Bills.

 

[MD]

I don't think he's ever had amazing talent to work with, to be perfectly honest with you. Good defensive talent, yeah. But not amazing.

I agree with you that he lucked bigtime into getting an elite quarterback, but when push comes to shove, he's certainly at least a better than average NFL head coach, IMO.

I agree he is a good coach but not what the media and some fans make him out to be.

 

[dlockz]

I agree he is a good coach but not what the media and some fans make him out to be.

im sure u would feel different if he had came here in 83 and had done the same with MArino

---------- Post added at 12:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:39 AM ----------

am not saying he isn't a good coach but he is not the coach that some believe is the greatest ever.

Manning notoriously folds in the playoffs and is not the QB Brady is. Rogers is not the QB Brady is. Look at the WRs that Brady has won with, not a very impressive cast. Miami had Brady I am pretty sure we could have a 10 year run on he division when you look at what the AFC east has been since 2000. With the exception of a couple seasons, the Pats have not been pushed very hard by the Phins, Jets or Bills.

YOu beat who is in front of u. Im not saying he is the greatest coach but he is definately in the conversation of greatest coaches. So do u penalize Shula for not winning a superbowl with Marino or going two decades without winning one, of course not.

U dont have a handful of superbowl victories as a coach and coordinator as well as three more appearances as a defensive coordinator.
The damn guy has been in the superbowl 8 friggin times and people act like its some accident.
Who else has 5 superbowl rings and 8 appearances. 3 rings as head coach 2 as dc. Runner up twice as coach and one as dc.

 

[Tzimisce_]

While it is important to remember that of all things that have come of this Aaron Hernandez story is the fact a young man had his life taken at the hands of this scumbag, Id like to touch on some utter nonsense that has struck a nerve with me over the past 24 hours. That is this idea portrayed in the media of "the Patriot Way" and how this myth is what propelled the Patriots to terminate Hernandez's employment with the team. Lets look at some facts shall we. I know the mainstream media sometimes has trouble with logic so it needs its place here on FH. Mods of course are free to move this special edition of Get Real to the appropriate forum and no offense shall be taken by me. I just felt I should post this in the main for now.

The Pats released Hernandez a solid 2 hours after his arrest yesterday morning. At this point, most of us assumed he was being arrested for obstruction of justice as was being reported all week. Whether or not the Pats believed that is debatable. My gut tells me he was released as soon as they found out it was a murder charge as opposed to obstruction but, I have no proof or any real solid common sense reasoning to believe either way. Although I will discuss later how Im certain with all of his power and influence in the area that Robert Kraft had a lot more details than the mainstream media did.

All afternoon we were forced to listen about how "the Patriot Way" was the driving force behind Hernandez's release and that such a class organization simply wasnt concerned about the cap hit or implications on their ability to win football games. This idea makes me want to puke in my suit. So much so that I have no recourse but, to come on to my FH podium and GET REAL about this whole idea.

First lets examine this report that ESPN came out with that states Kraft had decided last week that as soon as Hernandez was arrested and charged with anything involving this murder that they would release him. Im thinking that Kraft had plenty of information that we didnt. If it were a case of simply class, why did it take Hernandez getting arrested to provoke his release? The fact he was involved in some way wasnt good enough? The 2 hour difference in arrest and release I suppose could be explained by process of paperwork but, as I suggested earlier, Im willing to bet Kraft knew it was a murder arrest before the cuffs were even placed on Hernandez.

It was common sense to everyone that Hernandez in the very least obstructed justice and would be arrested at some point. This is why I question the whole "Pats decided last week to release him if he were arrested and charged with being involved in any way" story that ESPN ran with.

But, my main issue with this whole "Patriot Way" nonsense is this............
http://deadspin.com/reports-hernandez-under-investigation-for-role-in-2012-598421755

Lets assume the Pats knew about all of these things. Why did the "Patriot Way" not come into play here? After all, if this organization is so classy, why would it keep a guy who was suspected in so many shootings and was known for such behaviors even before he came into the league? Why did the Pats draft a guy who was clearly 1st round talent yet 31 other teams passed on him multiple times despite this?

Maybe its because the "Patriot Way" is a complete crock of horse ****. How does a team that is known for cheating its way to win at least 1 SB get labeled as this holier than thou organization in the media? I will tell you how.

The Patriot Way is nothing more than #12 and WINNING. Its as simple as that. The leader of the team is known for his hard work, dedication, and success. Add in some good looks and its some pile of bull **** that is easy to sell. "The Patriot Way". Just stop already. ESPN and all the other outlets make themselves look foolish to anyone with more than half a brain and the ability to pay attention. A few smart guys, shrewed leaders, and a winning QB does not a morally superior brand make. It just makes them a smart organization with a great QB who knows how to win. Thats all.

So please stop trying to sell us this crock about some "Patriot Way" that has been the backbone of their success as a franchise. The fact is without #12 behind center they are just another franchise. The Browns yesterday had a rookie arrested for attempted murder. he was immediately cut and yet no one has said a god damned word about "the Brown Way". You know why? Because the Browns ****ing blow thats why.

The "Patriot Way" is about as valid as "Joe Paterno : model of integrity". Its all bull****. "We are Penn St."

I would be very pleased to see Robert Kraft come out and say "Look. The guy got arrested for murder. What did you want us to do? This says nothing about some mythical Patriot Way. Its common sense." After all, I would think you could get fired from Foot Locker for being arrested on murder charges.

So all of this talk means nothing to me. In fact, I get the impression that had Hernandez not been arrested for murder that the Pats wouldve not only kept him, but played him and profited off him. The NFL and the Ravens did the same thing with Ray Lewis. They gave not a **** that he plead to obstruction in a murder case. The NFL marketed the hell out of Ray Lewis.

Just take a look at that link and all of the stuff Hernandez was involved in. Not a damn bit of it stopped the Pats from running Hernandez out there and scoring TDs with him as a primary weapon on offense. I have no doubts they wouldve continued right on with it. If it were all about class and the Patriot Way, he wouldve been released long ago, if he were ever drafted by the Pats. And anyone who wants to suggest the Pats werent fully aware of all of these other incidents, then that dosent say much for them as an organization. Hard to hold them up as some symbol of moral integrity if they are so ignorant when it comes to off the field crime issues with their players. Nobody with any sense would buy that anyway.

The Pats knew what they had in Hernandez. They simply didnt care until he was arrested and charged in an execution style murder. And that my friends is the REAL PATRIOT WAY.