Your Pre-Combine REALISTIC top 5 at 14. | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Your Pre-Combine REALISTIC top 5 at 14.

MiamiDolphin618 said:
The defense has some major flaws…but Im looking to build this offense early in the draft. Plug some holes in FA, especially with a least one legitimate starting G. Then I want at least one WR and RB in the first 3 rounds. It some fantasy land we would get White at 14 and then trade back up into the late 1st or early 2nd and grab Gurley. A man can dream right
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I'm all in for that. Wow, two legitimate playmakers who could turn out to be elite. If Miami does a good job in free agency, that could be possible.
 
I don't see Miami taking Gurley because of the injury. I think they are looking for plug and play guys because the heat is on in 2015. Just my 0.02$
 
La'el Collins makes a lot of sense. Nice feet, works the 2nd level well, and he can beast open holes. As an OG with his OT background, he's pretty much a dream come true for a team that needs help on the interior but has an injury-prone LT.

I agree with the sentiment that Landon Collins isn't the best fit for Rashad Jones, but I think both can play deep well enough that Coyle would just use them interchangeably. Not ideal, but Collins is a brick. He'd help the Run D right away. If he's there, he at least warrants consideration.

Gurley and Gordon are difficult to disregard, but I'd prefer to wait on RB.

I prefer White to Parker for his physicality. I think either would be reasonable at 14. If DGB checks out, he'd obviously be the WR of choice, but if he checks out, he won't see 14.

Don't see Ray or Gregory falling to 14, but I'd be thrilled with either. Other than that, I like a lot of DE's in the class, but I'm not spending a 1st on any of them.

1. Shane Ray
2. La'el Collins
3. Landon Collins
4. Kevin White
5. Melvin Gordon

I always prefer D in the 1st.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
La'el Collins makes a lot of sense. Nice feet, works the 2nd level well, and he can beast open holes. As an OG with his OT background, he's pretty much a dream come true for a team that needs help on the interior but has an injury-prone LT.

I agree with the sentiment that Landon Collins isn't the best fit for Rashad Jones, but I think both can play deep well enough that Coyle would just use them interchangeably. Not ideal, but Collins is a brick. He'd help the Run D right away. If he's there, he at least warrants consideration.

Gurley and Gordon are difficult to disregard, but I'd prefer to wait on RB.

I prefer White to Parker for his physicality. I think either would be reasonable at 14. If DGB checks out, he'd obviously be the WR of choice, but if he checks out, he won't see 14.

Don't see Ray or Gregory falling to 14, but I'd be thrilled with either. Other than that, I like a lot of DE's in the class, but I'm not spending a 1st on any of them.

1. Shane Ray
2. La'el Collins
3. Landon Collins
4. Kevin White
5. Melvin Gordon

I always prefer D in the 1st.
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What's your reasoning for preferring defense in the first? Genuinely curious.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
La'el Collins makes a lot of sense. Nice feet, works the 2nd level well, and he can beast open holes. As an OG with his OT background, he's pretty much a dream come true for a team that needs help on the interior but has an injury-prone LT.

I agree with the sentiment that Landon Collins isn't the best fit for Rashad Jones, but I think both can play deep well enough that Coyle would just use them interchangeably. Not ideal, but Collins is a brick. He'd help the Run D right away. If he's there, he at least warrants consideration.

Gurley and Gordon are difficult to disregard, but I'd prefer to wait on RB.

I prefer White to Parker for his physicality. I think either would be reasonable at 14. If DGB checks out, he'd obviously be the WR of choice, but if he checks out, he won't see 14.

Don't see Ray or Gregory falling to 14, but I'd be thrilled with either. Other than that, I like a lot of DE's in the class, but I'm not spending a 1st on any of them.

1. Shane Ray
2. La'el Collins
3. Landon Collins
4. Kevin White
5. Melvin Gordon

I always prefer D in the 1st.
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Do you prefer Collins > Scherff

Or do you just think Scherff will be long gone?
 
j-off-her-doll said:
La'el Collins makes a lot of sense. Nice feet, works the 2nd level well, and he can beast open holes. As an OG with his OT background, he's pretty much a dream come true for a team that needs help on the interior but has an injury-prone LT.

I agree with the sentiment that Landon Collins isn't the best fit for Rashad Jones, but I think both can play deep well enough that Coyle would just use them interchangeably. Not ideal, but Collins is a brick. He'd help the Run D right away. If he's there, he at least warrants consideration.

Gurley and Gordon are difficult to disregard, but I'd prefer to wait on RB.

I prefer White to Parker for his physicality. I think either would be reasonable at 14. If DGB checks out, he'd obviously be the WR of choice, but if he checks out, he won't see 14.

Don't see Ray or Gregory falling to 14, but I'd be thrilled with either. Other than that, I like a lot of DE's in the class, but I'm not spending a 1st on any of them.

1. Shane Ray
2. La'el Collins
3. Landon Collins
4. Kevin White
5. Melvin Gordon

I always prefer D in the 1st.
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Ray's first step is top-notch, almost if not faster than Wake's. My only concern with Ray is can he develop other moves; he mostly wins with speed.
La'El Collins is up there also but if we target Orlando Franklin I think I'll lose interest especially if Turner comes along. Albert, Turner, Pouncey, Franklin, and James is solid imo.
Collins has been slipping for me lately. I like his physicality but he gets lost in coverage and is late to the ball a lot.
I think Cleveland will take White or Parker and I wouldn't touch a RB in the first unless he's AP reincarnated.
 
FearTheBeard said:
What's your reasoning for preferring defense in the first? Genuinely curious.
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Generally speaking, you're getting the top-tier physical talents in the 1st RD; any top physical talent that falls beyond the first either has red flags (valid or not), isn't yet good at football, or plays a devalued position - like LB or RB. It's hard to make up for a lack of size/speed/strength on D, and the best defensive players are almost always top-level athletes. Looking at the All Pro team this year, on D, you have Watt, Williams, Suh, Dareus, Hunter, Dumervil, Kuechly, Wagner, Revis, Sherman, Thomas, and Weddle. These are all high-level athletes - with only Hunter, Dumervil, Wagner, Sherman, and Weddle going after the 1st.

On offense, only your QB, LT, and alpha WR have to come in the 1st, and you don't NEED an alpha WR. At 213 lbs Demarco Murray rant a 4.37 and went in the 3rd RD. That's not a surprise. We know that you can get a high-level RB in the 2nd or 3rd. With the depth at the WR position, you're still getting higher level talents falling to the 2nd and 3rd rounds - Robinson, Matthews, Latimer, and Moncrief last year.

In short, on D, I feel you need as many top-level athletes, who can also play, as you can get. On O, I think top-level athletes are nice but not as essential. If D. Jordan played like a top-5 DE, Miami's D would look completely different. I believe that Odrick and Jordan were our only two 1st RD players on D last season, and neither has lived up to their draft spots. You'd hope that Hickey would do better than Ireland drafting D in the 1st. When you look at the top D's, Seahawks, Lions, Broncos, Bills, and 49ers, only Seattle has been sparing with its 1st RD picks on D, and they're an obvious exception (and one of the best teams of the last 20 years).

---------- Post added at 07:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:56 AM ----------
Tannenballs said:
Do you prefer Collins > Scherff

Or do you just think Scherff will be long gone?
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I prefer Collins. Think he plays with better balance.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
Generally speaking, you're getting the top-tier physical talents in the 1st RD; any top physical talent that falls beyond the first either has red flags (valid or not), isn't yet good at football, or plays a devalued position - like LB or RB. It's hard to make up for a lack of size/speed/strength on D, and the best defensive players are almost always top-level athletes. Looking at the All Pro team this year, on D, you have Watt, Williams, Suh, Dareus, Hunter, Dumervil, Kuechly, Wagner, Revis, Sherman, Thomas, and Weddle. These are all high-level athletes - with only Hunter, Dumervil, Wagner, Sherman, and Weddle going after the 1st.

On offense, only your QB, LT, and alpha WR have to come in the 1st, and you don't NEED an alpha WR. At 213 lbs Demarco Murray rant a 4.37 and went in the 3rd RD. That's not a surprise. We know that you can get a high-level RB in the 2nd or 3rd. With the depth at the WR position, you're still getting higher level talents falling to the 2nd and 3rd rounds - Robinson, Matthews, Latimer, and Moncrief last year.

In short, on D, I feel you need as many top-level athletes, who can also play, as you can get. On O, I think top-level athletes are nice but not as essential. If D. Jordan played like a top-5 DE, Miami's D would look completely different. I believe that Odrick and Jordan were our only two 1st RD players on D last season, and neither has lived up to their draft spots. You'd hope that Hickey would do better than Ireland drafting D in the 1st. When you look at the top D's, Seahawks, Lions, Broncos, Bills, and 49ers, only Seattle has been sparing with its 1st RD picks on D, and they're an obvious exception (and one of the best teams of the last 20 years).

---------- Post added at 07:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:56 AM ----------



I prefer Collins. Think he plays with better balance.
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I guess that kind of makes sense, I don't necissisarly think the best athletes are on D, but I do agree that once you step outside the 1St round your pick of top notch athletes on defense goes down dramatically.

I personally think D-line is always a draft option in the first rnd if there's something you like. There's just too much of a premium on pass rushers in today's NFL to pass them up, and it seems like the worst teams generally consistently have the worst Dlines.

You Don't keep talent fresh there you'll be in trouble before you know it. Kind of like the giants this year. 2 SB winning Dlines, but once It got old the entire team fell apart.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
Generally speaking, you're getting the top-tier physical talents in the 1st RD; any top physical talent that falls beyond the first either has red flags (valid or not), isn't yet good at football, or plays a devalued position - like LB or RB. It's hard to make up for a lack of size/speed/strength on D, and the best defensive players are almost always top-level athletes. Looking at the All Pro team this year, on D, you have Watt, Williams, Suh, Dareus, Hunter, Dumervil, Kuechly, Wagner, Revis, Sherman, Thomas, and Weddle. These are all high-level athletes - with only Hunter, Dumervil, Wagner, Sherman, and Weddle going after the 1st.

On offense, only your QB, LT, and alpha WR have to come in the 1st, and you don't NEED an alpha WR. At 213 lbs Demarco Murray rant a 4.37 and went in the 3rd RD. That's not a surprise. We know that you can get a high-level RB in the 2nd or 3rd. With the depth at the WR position, you're still getting higher level talents falling to the 2nd and 3rd rounds - Robinson, Matthews, Latimer, and Moncrief last year.

In short, on D, I feel you need as many top-level athletes, who can also play, as you can get. On O, I think top-level athletes are nice but not as essential. If D. Jordan played like a top-5 DE, Miami's D would look completely different. I believe that Odrick and Jordan were our only two 1st RD players on D last season, and neither has lived up to their draft spots. You'd hope that Hickey would do better than Ireland drafting D in the 1st. When you look at the top D's, Seahawks, Lions, Broncos, Bills, and 49ers, only Seattle has been sparing with its 1st RD picks on D, and they're an obvious exception (and one of the best teams of the last 20 years).

---------- Post added at 07:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:56 AM ----------



I prefer Collins. Think he plays with better balance.
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Would you look at an Alvin Dupree, Dante Fowler, Markus Golden, or Eli Harold? I also like Hau'Oli Kikaha in the late first/early 2nd
 
what exactly would eli harold play for miami??? thats the classic tweener...wants to play coming forward with his hand in the dirt all the time off the edge but too light to play a 43 de in anything other than a situational rusher who lacks serious polish even as that and as a move to an off the los lb in a 43 would be a complete projection

in our d thats not a fit...think fellas

i'm sure harolds gonna try his hand as a 34 olb or at least try and sell it...
 
If Shane Ray made it to 14 I think you have to think really hard about that.

For me I prefer offense, but more than anything I prefer elite talent. We have so many holes, but what does that matter if we fill holes with solid/average players? This team lacks elite players, and while I fully understand that the draft is all but a crapshoot, you can still seek elite prospects.

For example, I think Kevin White is an elite talent that has a shot of being there at 14, along with DGB (off-field concerns huge red flag though). Melvin Gordon and Todd Gurley (injury) are elite talents. Hell I like Lamar Miller but you are crazy if you would pass on those guys…they are elite. Every team needs players like Odrick, Landry, Miller, etc but those guys are what they are…they are good solid players. They are not elite and were never elite talents coming out…thats why when the injury bug hits it hits really hard, we don't have the elite players to step up and absorb that.

You need players that can carry this team every once in a while, dictate a game. To me, Gordon and Gurley (most likely in trading back up) are two guys on the short list who can win you games next year on their own.
 
ray wont make it to #14 in this class...too many pass rush tools and physical abilities
 
MiamiDolphin618 said:
If Shane Ray made it to 14 I think you have to think really hard about that.

For me I prefer offense, but more than anything I prefer elite talent. We have so many holes, but what does that matter if we fill holes with solid/average players? This team lacks elite players, and while I fully understand that the draft is all but a crapshoot, you can still seek elite prospects.

For example, I think Kevin White is an elite talent that has a shot of being there at 14, along with DGB (off-field concerns huge red flag though). Melvin Gordon and Todd Gurley (injury) are elite talents. Hell I like Lamar Miller but you are crazy if you would pass on those guys…they are elite. Every team needs players like Odrick, Landry, Miller, etc but those guys are what they are…they are good solid players. They are not elite and were never elite talents coming out…thats why when the injury bug hits it hits really hard, we don't have the elite players to step up and absorb that.

You need players that can carry this team every once in a while, dictate a game. To me, Gordon and Gurley (most likely in trading back up) are two guys on the short list who can win you games next year on their own.
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Not really buying the DGB elite talent stuff. To me he's a last resort draft pick if we miss on all the other big WRs. He's got size, he's got speed but when I watch his stuff from Missouri it's all bubble screens and go routes. I killed Ireland for drafting Michael Egnew from Missouri cause all I saw him run was bubble screens...nothing that resembled an NFL TE unless you think blocking DBs downfield on running plays is the same as blocking DEs and linebackers. DGB, despite his ridiculous athleticism, would be a project akin to Egnew. I have serious doubts DGB knows how to read defenses or knows how to run proper WR routes...and that's apart from his off field issues. I'd rather take a flyer on Dezmin Lewis from Central Arkansas before I pick DGB. I said similar things about Cordarrelle Patterson and Pearcy Harvin, neither of which can run an NFL route tree properly or read defenses. Harvin, if you get the ball in his hands, is elusive at least in the open field but short crossing routes or having him find a soft spot in zone coverage and sitting to wait on the pass are his most successful routes because he doesn't have to read defenses or run a good route, he just uses his speed. He's not effective deep cause he doesn't know how to read leverage and force the DBs to flip their hips...everyone runs fast in the NFL.
 
hooshoops said:
ray wont make it to #14 in this class...too many pass rush tools and physical abilities
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Shane Ray is currently sitting at #6 in my matrix but I only have ratings from 4 publications. Not everyone has their top 100 big board out yet.

1. Leonard Williams (high of 2, low of 2)
2. Marcus Mariota (high 5, low 1)
3. Jameis Winston (high 6, low 1)
4. Randy Gregory (high 5, low 3)
5. Amari Cooper (high 6, low 4)
6. Shane Ray (high 10, low 5)
7. Brandon Scherff (high 15, low 3)
8. Vic Beasley (high 11, low 7)
9. Landon Collins (high 17, low 7)
10. Dante Fowler (high 14, low 9)
11. DeVante Parker (high 16, low 12)
12. Andrus Peat (high 17, low 11)
13. Cedric Ogbuehi (high 20, low 11)
14. Melvin Gordon (high 22, low 6)
15. Ereck Flowers (high 28, low 9)
16. Ronnie Stanley (high 27, low 8)
17. Trae Waynes (high 23, low 12)
18. Kevin White (high 22, low 15)
19. Danny Shelton (high 24, low 15)
20. Eddie Goldman (high 28, low 18)

I need to update the list and see if any of the other publications have come out with their big board yet. I've got 458 names on it so far. CBSSports.com and Drafttek.com have the most extensive rankings right now.
 
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