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Zach vs Ray

The_Live_ProPp said:
Lewis > Zach .



Tackles don;t say the whole story.. Stats are often times misleading..

There is a good reason Lewis is more respected around the league and gets more notoriety.. With no offense, Lewis led that team to a SB victory .. Miami has missed the playoffs in how many years in a row now ?
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lewis was a member of a very good defense that helped lead thier team to the Super Bowl. I would not say thier team did not have an offense though
Jamal lewis ran for 1400 yards and his backup Priest Holmes added another 600 yards. Thier defense was loaded and included Lewis, Pete Boulware, Sam Adams, Rob Burnett, Chris Mcalister, Duane Starks, Rob Woodson,Michael McCrary,Adalius Thomas and Jamie Sharper.

between these guys are loads of probowls
Peter Boulware 3 time pro bowler
Mike Mcrary 2 time probowler
Rob Burnett 1 pro bowl
duane starks 10th pick in draft and 20 picks in his first three years
Chris Mcalister 3 time pro bowler
Rod woodson 11 time pro bowler
Adalius Thomas 2 time pro bowler
Jamie sharper cannot recall any pro bowls but was secon best linebacker on this defense.
Sam adams 3 time pro bowler

This was as talented a defense that has been on the field. Zach is every bit as good if not better than Lewis but Lewis always gets more credit than he deserves because he was not alone on that defense. Leadership is the most overrated and misinterpreted asset in the NFL. Lewis was a memeber of one of the best defenses assembled and too many want to give him all the credit
surrounded by alot of other great players.
 
a 5-10 226 pound 3-4 middle linebacker in the NFL is unheard of ...............wait Zach Thomas, case closed, i win zach is one of a kind
 
Peyton Manning and John Madden have said Zach is the smartest defensive player in the leauge. :bighug:
 
All because a player is small does not make him better.. That is a ridiculous argument and flawed reasoning..

And your total tackles theory is flawed at best.. Because Miami's D is predicated on making Thomas free, Baltimore's defense was never built to do that for Lewis, not even in a 3-4 defense , yet Lewis was alot more noticeable in big games, because he is flat out a better player..

You can make a thread about any statistic you want. But if it's a stat that is misleading due to the differential in sample size, then it behooves other people to point out the fallacy in the statistic that is being used


Not to mention Lewis has alot more passes defensed, he is better in pass coverage.. The passing game is 50% of the game ! And Lewis gets closer to the Qb alot more than Zach does on the blitz. Zach gets caught up one on one and is lost in the line when he tries to blitz . He is just not good at it..



Zach has admittedly been owned by Pro Bowl NFL center's repeatedly.. The same cannot be said for Lewis.. Those same Pro bowl centers confirm Lewis is the best by what they say..

Of course Miami fans on a Miami message board are going to make lame attempts like saying Zach is smaller so he must be better.. But he isn't .. Make a poll on any neutral message board asking who the better MLB is, and I guarantee you Lewis will get the vast majority of the votes . And for good reason - because he is the better all around player.
 
The_Live_ProPp said:
All because a player is small does not make him better.. That is a ridiculous argument and flawed reasoning..

And your total tackles theory is flawed at best.. Because Miami's D is predicated on making Thomas free, Baltimore's defense was never built to do that for Lewis, not even in a 3-4 defense , yet Lewis was alot more noticeable in big games, because he is flat out a better player..

You can make a thread about any statistic you want. But if it's a stat that is misleading due to the differential in sample size, then it behooves other people to point out the fallacy in the statistic that is being used


Not to mention Lewis has alot more passes defensed, he is better in pass coverage.. The passing game is 50% of the game ! And Lewis gets closer to the Qb alot more than Zach does on the blitz. Zach gets caught up one on one and is lost in the line when he tries to blitz . He is just not good at it..



Zach has admittedly been owned by Pro Bowl NFL center's repeatedly.. The same cannot be said for Lewis.. Those same Pro bowl centers confirm Lewis is the best by what they say..

Of course Miami fans on a Miami message board are going to make lame attempts like saying Zach is smaller so he must be better.. But he isn't .. Make a poll on any neutral message board asking who the better MLB is, and I guarantee you Lewis will get the vast majority of the votes . And for good reason - because he is the better all around player.
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all these fancy details arent phasing me, u have to be on the field to play, there is no way the dolphins would survive if zach was gone half the year every year like ray
 
there is no way the dolphins could survive if zach was gone half the year every year like ray
 
24/7 MD FREAK! said:
all these fancy details arent phasing me,
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Yeah.. Because it's obvious facts don't phase you.. You can throw quotes where some say Zach is smart.. But just being smart doesn;t make someone the best.. I can get top guys in the NFL who say Ray Lewis is just simply" The Best" .. And that's what this is about..

Take a look at this .. Do a seatch for "Ray Lewis is the best" and you get over 14,000 results ! For the phrase , "Zach Thomas is the best", there are only 10 results.. ONLY TEN compared to fourteen thousand .

"Ray Lewis is the best"

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&q="Ray+Lewis+is+the+best"&btnG=Search&meta=

"Zach Thomas is the best"

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&q="zach+thomas+is+the+best"&meta=

This is because it is universally known who the better overall player at MLB is .. And it's proven by popular demand, it's Lewis .. I've got you beat by a score of 14,000 to ten ! You have been routed.
 
The_Live_ProPp said:
Baltimore was 13-3 last year with lewis leading that defense.. You make no sense.. What was Miami's record ? LOL.. And all because a team runs a 3-4, there ared different versions of it.. Miami's version makes the Middle linebacker free to make tackles.. Again, simple stats are misleading..

Ray Lewis also led his defense to a SB title.. Zach never even came close to doing that..

And Maybe you need this repeated -

Pro Bowl center Kevin Mawae used to own Zach Thomas when he was with the Jets.. He totally Owned Thomas year in and year out.. But he didn't own Lewis .. Even Mawae once said the best linebacker in the game is Ray Lewis.. He knows alot more than you do being in the trenches..
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What a dumb logic, using that "logic" Marino sucks because he never won a Super Bowl
 
I can't tell if this is just one person with two user names postwhoring to himself or two buffoons engaged in a heated senseless argument...
 
The Live PropP
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Zach has more tackels over his career. If Lewis is bigger and stronger and faster, he shouldnt have ne problems gettin 10 tackels a game..(o wait..zach thomas does that) LEwis first roudner, zach fifth..but yet...Zach has more tackles. You say stats dont tell the story. WE ARE TALKING AOUT LINEBACKERS, so yah...i don't know about you, but if you give me two linebackers who played for the same amount of time, and one of them has more tackels than the other (by a fair margin) I'd take him...It's like comapring QB's and saying..Well it dont matter That Payton Manning has more attempts, completions, Touchdowns and completions percentage...Aaron Brooks is better..stats don't say it all.
If you want to talk about OVERALL defensive player, than Lwis might get an edge cuz he is better in coverage and pass rushing. But guess what? This thrad is comparing zach thomas to lewis as LINEBACKERS. Plus..we never had a HUGE need at pass rush with JT around.
Now u wanna talk about winning superbwols? For past five years (ha same five years we miss the playoffs) We (usually) have 2 pro bowl defenders. JT and Zach. (I mean as TRUE dolphins..not like a 1-2 year agent) While lewis had crap load of people. They had amaizing secondary. ANd theyr rushed for over 2000 yards. So idunt know waht you talkin about winning the SB without NO offense. I bet you my house that if you put THAT ravnes defense on last years oaklands offense (Now that ReALLY was no offense) They would of bin 5-11 at best. Yah..tey didint have an asstonishing offense..but theyre team as buoid around their defense...but they had a fair amount of players who could play offense.
And your google result...Ray Lweis is mor vocal than Zack and he gets alot of publicity...While Zach simply puts on his pads, and ignites Runningbacks.
 
You could easily say that Ray is one of the top 3 LB's to play the game.

Zach is great, but is a question to make it to the HOF.
 
1stDown said:
You could easily say that Ray is one of the top 3 LB's to play the game.

Zach is great, but is a question to make it to the HOF.
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Prbly not JUST because he does not have a ring? Does he deserve it? Certainly.
 
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