Zach Wilson or Justin Fields at 3? Any issues? | Page 12 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Zach Wilson or Justin Fields at 3? Any issues?

I'm not one of these recently registerd posters on the board. I've been here for years and the post history is clear. You have some real anaimosity and it's palpable towards GM Grier and it's been like that for awhile. In your eyes, he can do no right and clearly is the worst or one of the worst GMs of the Dolphins or any organization has ever had.

I realize this is a Dolphins website, but i get the impression you don't come near sullying other GMs in the league like you do Grier.

Where going to get to the source of this disdain TODAY and exercising it for 2021 this cannot continue. We love you and care for you and want what's best.

So, Let's start:

Where did the bad man touch you @Pachyderm_Wave to make you despise him so?
Was it once or multiple times?
Did you ever confide in anyone about your painful experiences?

I promise I and others are here to help and not judge. Please take your time. You're in a safe zone.

You seem a little wound up today. I hope Miami promotes him to Vice Chair. Wouldn't that make for some fun posting! He's earned it.

Most GM's would be fired though. I've been pretty harsh on Thomas Dimitroff in Atlanta lately. He's no longer a problem for them.
 
Imagine thinking I would waste time proving anything to a blind man. Carry on with your day. The rest of the universe can continue talking about fixing the problem that you don't know exists.
Blah blah blah. Oh so you don’t have the proof? Okay. That’s what I thought.

You are wasting everyone’s time with fake stats. Come up with your own opinion or, if that’s too hard for you and you’re gonna parrot someone, at least do it with sources (aka what I provided)

Stop it. No need for straw men arguments - I’ve been advocating for D Smith after a trade down from 3 for over a week since it was plausible. That doesn’t change the fact that there were not FIFTEEN or Eve TEN drops. So again, stop it.
 
How would Fields and Wilson fare on a team with a poor OL, WR and running game? It's simply a futile approach simply replacing your current QB with the next QB prospect when there are deep holes in the offense. If the offense was solid and Tua performed the way he did, I'd be on board but right now that not the case. While getting a top 3 pick is rare, if we grab a top 10 player while at the same time hopefully trade down and stay top 10 we can get multiple impact players that will move the needle significantly for next season. Additionally getting these type of players would make the current QBs job a lot easier and hence they can perform better.
 
I have no idea how Fields will grade out relative to Tua but he seems to have the requisite physical tools to develop into an elite QB. If you want to compete with Josh Allen and the Bills for the division over the next dozen years that is the type of QB the Dolphins are going to need.

If the Dolphins assign a high draft grade to Fields, an interesting question would be: if Fields is available at #3, what is the minimum draft compensation that would be required for the Dolphins to trade Tua and draft Fields?
 
You seem a little wound up today. I hope Miami promotes him to Vice Chair. Wouldn't that make for some fun posting! He's earned it.

Most GM's would be fired though. I've been pretty harsh on Thomas Dimitroff in Atlanta lately. He's no longer a problem for them.

Not wound up at all!

Unlike you, apparently, I think Grier and Co did a "good" and not "great" job in their first fulltime capacity in that position.

This next round of infusion of talent is going to say alot.
 
Assume Miami takes Fields/Wilson at 3? Would anyone be against that? Can never have enough good players at the most important position in the NFL. I was all aboard the Tua train pre draft last year, but man does he look “small” in the NFL. With the quality of coaching we have with Flores it’s highly unlikely we pick this high again with this regime. I would do it and I hope we take him.

If anything u can trade the other one worst case scenario for a 1st again.

Edit: My point here is you take a top QB prospect and let them compete same as you would any other position in the NFL.

Edit 2: This pick is an ultra luxury pick, why not use it at the most important position in the NFL. What’s the downside? You still have 3 more great picks to build around these 2 QBs.

If our scouting thinks either of these guys have what it take to be a NFL championship caliber QB, we should take them. No questions asked.
It's going to be a long 4 months. If Miami had the 1st pick, its a no brainer, you take Lawrence. But Lawrence is a generational prospect. The Jets are likely to take a QB. So, now your talking about the Dolphins dumping Tua for the third best QB prospect - Fields or Wilson. Taking all emotion out of it, that's a bad business decision. Too much bust potential. I grab Sewell of trade down for more top picks. Get 2 to 3 new WRs and a blue chip RB. Also, bolster front 7 (Z. Collins). Continue with smart FA pick ups. Maybe pay top $ for one stud. Allen Robinson or Justin Simmons from Denver.
 
And the jury is still out on Tua being able to do so.

Down their top 4 WR's for a good part of the season. Down a competent running game. No preseason games. Limited practice and TC. One year removed from major hip surgery.

All in all it could have been much worse. He will only get better from here. That's almost guaranteed. Whether or not that's good enough to compete for AFC superiority is still in question and if that's the case you move in a year or two. Miami's window to compete is open as of today. Tons of high draft picks and space to build a Super Bowl caliber roster around him.

Sorry, but that's only partially true. The guys who picked Tua, who play with Tua, who coach Tua, they've been around him and been around enough other QBs, successful and otherwise, to make a more informed decision than we do. The jury might be out for us, but they should be in a position that's close to rendering a judgment.

Maybe they think he's the guy. Maybe they agree with you that if you fix all those other things, he'll be all right. I'd argue that if you have to have everything else right for him to be right, then he's not the catalyst, he's just a cog, but that's just my POV. If Fitzpatrick -- a journeyman who 8 other teams gave up on -- did so much better with the same tools, why did Tua struggle so much? And why wouldn't the Dolphins just patch in a mid-round QB pick or solid but unspectacular veteran rather than invest what they have to in Tua to succeed?

Finally, there's absolutely no reason to believe he'll only get better. All that's guaranteed is that he'll get a year older and the team might get a year further from contention. NFL history is littered with top-10 QB picks who didn't make it. Almost all of them had games or moments that made people think it finally clicked for them before they bottomed out. It's bargaining or rationalizing to think otherwise, IMO.
 
One other thing ... a No. 5 overall QB pick, IMO, has to be much more than a caretaker QB to be worthwhile. If you just want a guy who can throw 5-yard passes and doesn't turn the ball over, you can get him after the second round. You draft a QB in the first round because you believe he changes your team, that he can elevate the rest of the players, that he can move the ball down the field in 2 minutes and pull out the win for you.

I agree 100%. I’d also add though that with the import of taking a player at #5 overall, I’d like to think the investment is significant and thus judgment can probably wait until year 2 or later. Or he gets a year to recover from major surgery, a line that doesn’t feature rookies, and a skill group that wouldn’t stand on the sidelines at some SEC schools.

Point is...we can hold high expectations for Tua, but let’s at least give him a real chance. Hell we gave Tannehill several years!
 
Sorry, but that's only partially true. The guys who picked Tua, who play with Tua, who coach Tua, they've been around him and been around enough other QBs, successful and otherwise, to make a more informed decision than we do. The jury might be out for us, but they should be in a position that's close to rendering a judgment.

Maybe they think he's the guy. Maybe they agree with you that if you fix all those other things, he'll be all right. I'd argue that if you have to have everything else right for him to be right, then he's not the catalyst, he's just a cog, but that's just my POV. If Fitzpatrick -- a journeyman who 8 other teams gave up on -- did so much better with the same tools, why did Tua struggle so much? And why wouldn't the Dolphins just patch in a mid-round QB pick or solid but unspectacular veteran rather than invest what they have to in Tua to succeed?

Finally, there's absolutely no reason to believe he'll only get better. All that's guaranteed is that he'll get a year older and the team might get a year further from contention. NFL history is littered with top-10 QB picks who didn't make it. Almost all of them had games or moments that made people think it finally clicked for them before they bottomed out. It's bargaining or rationalizing to think otherwise, IMO.
I'm not disagreeing with you. But you have to factor in the things I mentioned.
You also agree that with better blocking, competent skill position players and another year of absorbing the playbook greatly increase the odds of him improving, correct?
 
I agree 100%. I’d also add though that with the import of taking a player at #5 overall, I’d like to think the investment is significant and thus judgment can probably wait until year 2 or later. Or he gets a year to recover from major surgery, a line that doesn’t feature rookies, and a skill group that wouldn’t stand on the sidelines at some SEC schools.

Point is...we can hold high expectations for Tua, but let’s at least give him a real chance. Hell we gave Tannehill several years!
SEVEN years!
 
Allen looked like **** his rookie season. Allen looked pretty damn good yesterday and has all season. Tua had a major injury, no offseason and was thrown into the starter roll after 6 games. GIVE TUA TIME! Jesus...
Stop with this. I can see both sides, but this is a bad arguement.

Allen has elite physical skills. Tua does not. Not even close to the same type of player.

Do you think Allen would be as good if he were limited physically? If that were the case, I doubt he is in the MVP conversation.

This post has nothing to do with my opinion of Tua, only the bad comparison being made.
 
In an ideal world, we’d trade our #3 pick for a later 1st and 2022 1st and push the decision to draft a QB next year, while loading up on offensive talent with the rest of the picks this year so that we can get a more accurate evaluation of Tua. Obviously this is easier said than done, since it takes two to tango.
 
I agree 100%. I’d also add though that with the import of taking a player at #5 overall, I’d like to think the investment is significant and thus judgment can probably wait until year 2 or later. Or he gets a year to recover from major surgery, a line that doesn’t feature rookies, and a skill group that wouldn’t stand on the sidelines at some SEC schools.

Point is...we can hold high expectations for Tua, but let’s at least give him a real chance. Hell we gave Tannehill several years!
The difference is because of the Texans pick the Dolphins are in a position right now to rectify a mistake if the people calling the shots have doubts about Tua. They don't have to wait a few years to admit they were wrong and tear it all down and start from scratch. Plus, the Dolphins have the resources beyond that first pick to still address other needs.

It's like laying the foundation of your house and discovering something was done incorrectly before you really get much further along in construction. You don't build the rest of the house hoping it will stand. You bite down, accept your losses, and repair the foundation when it's easiest.

I'm not advocating drafting over Tua necessarily. I've just seen some issues that really concern me with his game. What is boils down to is if there's someone available at 3 you think is a better bet to be a franchise QB than Tua ... only then do you make that move. If the front office still believes there's a good chance Tua is a difference-maker at QB, you stick with him. If there are doubts, though, now's your chance to move on while the damage still is minimal.
 
In an ideal world, we’d trade our #3 pick for a later 1st and 2022 1st and push the decision to draft a QB next year, while loading up on offensive talent with the rest of the picks this year so that we can get a more accurate evaluation of Tua. Obviously this is easier said than done, since it takes two to tango.
Actually, this is a really sensible approach, too.
 
I sure would like to see Tua play with 3 or 4 more really good WRs/RBs.
 
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