Zach Wilson or Justin Fields at 3? Any issues?

[Eggiweggs]

Show me a list/link of the 10 drops...

What's funny is how people act they mattered in the score

In today's game, maybe that doesn't change the outcome. I dont know. As far as whether 10 is an inaccurate number or whether the receivers quit, I don't know that either. My eyeballs told me there were drops at crucial points throughout the game, I know that much. So what do you want, you wanna go QB 3rd overall? And if so, who?

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Give Tua more than nine games.

I'd surround him with talent. Miami came into the season without a lot of talent at the skill positions. Down the stretch, the Dolphins were using third and fourth string wide receivers.

I wouldn't draft a quarterback at #3. Ultimately, I think the Dolphins will get a kings ransom for that pick.....preferably Detroit or Carolina. Stay in the top 10. Don't discount San Francisco.

 

[DPhinz_DPhinz]

In today's game, maybe that doesn't change the outcome. I dont know. As far as whether 10 is an inaccurate number or whether the receivers quit, I don't know that either. My eyeballs told me there were drops at crucial points throughout the game, I know that much. So what do you want, you wanna go QB 3rd overall? And if so, who?

My heart is telling me hell no. Tua will be fine with weapons.

My eyes and right mind are wavering because he's looked terrible.

 

[Eggiweggs]

My heart is telling me hell no. Tua will be fine with weapons.

My eyes and right mind are wavering because he's looked terrible.

He certainly did not look good against Buffalo. I dont think there is any denying that. He's shown some good this season and some bad. Hopefully a better supporting cast will help going into next year. The thing is, if Tua looks lost next year, we will still have the supporting cast pieces if we draft them this year.

 

[bostondolphin]

I sure would like to see Tua play with 3 or 4 more really good WRs/RBs.

Further, even if there are doubts about Tua, is there any doubt that he was widely believed a stronger prospect coming out of college than anybody beyond Lawrence in this draft? I mean injuries aside, which by the way are NOT the source of today's concerns, can anyone argue that these other guys are more touted prospects?

So to me, there is no option to move on from him now unless you feel strongly you can acquire a better option. Show me the better prospect. If it's just gonna be a "maybe", it seems REALLY shortsighted to blow a #3 pick overall on a risk when you can at least use it to build the rest of a needy roster.

 

[PCmor]

Further, even if there are doubts about Tua, is there any doubt that he was widely believed a stronger prospect coming out of college than anybody beyond Lawrence in this draft? I mean injuries aside, which by the way are NOT the source of today's concerns, can anyone argue that these other guys are more touted prospects?

So to me, there is no option to move on from him now unless you feel strongly you can acquire a better option. Show me the better prospect. If it's just gonna be a "maybe", it seems REALLY shortsighted to blow a #3 pick overall on a risk when you can at least use it to build the rest of a needy roster.

Again, very sensible. You don't move on just for the sake of moving on. You move on because you don't think he's got it and you think there's a player you can draft who's absolutely better in your evaluation.

It's a crappy situation. The Dolphins, IMO, did nothing wrong. Tua was the right pick without the benefit of hindsight. I think anyone in the Dolphins position would have taken him without reservation. You just don't know ... sometimes players can't make the jump or something happens and they inexplicably lose confidence and the ability to perform, like Chuck Knoblauch suddenly not being able to throw a baseball from second base to first.

If Tua'd just played like an average QB yesterday or had a couple of other games in the last month where he showed me something, where there was a sign that he was getting it. He just seemed to be regressing with each game. The zip he had on his first TD pass was completely gone by Week 17. It was almost like he was short-arming everything because he was afraid of getting intercepted.

He just looked like someone who let the speed of the game take over his head. The percentage of QBs that are like that who overcome it is pretty low, but it isn't zero.

It's just a crappy situation for the Dolphins to be in. Like I've been saying, I hope the people calling the shots moving forward have some pretty strong convictions about which way to go, because it probably is going to mean the difference between being a legit Super Bowl contender in the next five years and being stuck right where we are now.

 

[bostondolphin]

Again, very sensible. You don't move on just for the sake of moving on. You move on because you don't think he's got it and you think there's a player you can draft who's absolutely better in your evaluation.

It's a crappy situation. The Dolphins, IMO, did nothing wrong. Tua was the right pick without the benefit of hindsight. I think anyone in the Dolphins position would have taken him without reservation. You just don't know ... sometimes players can't make the jump or something happens and they inexplicably lose confidence and the ability to perform, like Chuck Knoblauch suddenly not being able to throw a baseball from second base to first.

If Tua'd just played like an average QB yesterday or had a couple of other games in the last month where he showed me something, where there was a sign that he was getting it. He just seemed to be regressing with each game. The zip he had on his first TD pass was completely gone by Week 17. It was almost like he was short-arming everything because he was afraid of getting intercepted.

He just looked like someone who let the speed of the game take over his head. The percentage of QBs that are like that who overcome it is pretty low, but it isn't zero.

It's just a crappy situation for the Dolphins to be in. Like I've been saying, I hope the people calling the shots moving forward have some pretty strong convictions about which way to go, because it probably is going to mean the difference between being a legit Super Bowl contender in the next five years and being stuck right where we are now.

So, this means that the franchise who did months of evaluation on Tua, invested a top 5 pick when other QB's (one notable one with a widely known stronger arm) were available, have decided that he isn't tthe guy after 10 games with 3 rookies on the OL, a pop-warner team of skilled players, no OTA's, etc.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying they can't make that judgment. I'm just saying if I'm in that room I feel pretty uneasy about voicing that opinion given how little they gave him to work with. If they gave him an offseason to learn/work with teammates, 1-2 weapons and a better OL, is anybody gonna be surprised if he makes a huge leap?

Again...I saw stuff I didn't like either. But moving on from him at this moment seems terribly decisive for an organization that hasn't proven it has the chops to be confident in a decision.

 

[PCmor]

So, this means that the franchise who did months of evaluation on Tua, invested a top 5 pick when other QB's (one notable one with a widely known stronger arm) were available, have decided that he isn't tthe guy after 10 games with 3 rookies on the OL, a pop-warner team of skilled players, no OTA's, etc.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying they can't make that judgment. I'm just saying if I'm in that room I feel pretty uneasy about voicing that opinion given how little they gave him to work with. If they gave him an offseason to learn/work with teammates, 1-2 weapons and a better OL, is anybody gonna be surprised if he makes a huge leap?

Again...I saw stuff I didn't like either. But moving on from him at this moment seems terribly decisive for an organization that hasn't proven it has the chops to be confident in a decision.

That's exactly what it means. You kind of said it yourself ... they "decided he isn't the guy." The implication is that they saw something they couldn't see during the initial evaluation process that's a red flag for them. Their jobs are riding on the ultimate success of the team, not necessarily the success of Tua Tagovailoa.

If you take a car trip somewhere and 10 miles down the road you realize you are going in the complete wrong direction, you wouldn't circumvent the earth until you got to your destination. It'd be silly to even drive 20 more miles in the wrong direction before turning the car around. Or, say you are hiring someone, and, two weeks into the job, despite an impeccable resume' and a knockout interview, your hire doesn't mix with your top client. Do you keep investing in the hire because of your pride and say "I hope it works"? Or do you find someone who connects with the guy who is paying the most to keep your business viable?

 

[fin415]

Miamis greatest single individual talent never won a damn thing and we still got people that wanna sell everything for a qb.

The irony.

It was even worse than that as I've posted multiple times. Not only did we have a GOAT contender at QB, we had a GOAT contender at HC. If that doesn't tell you it's a team game, I'm not sure what will.

 

[fin415]

So, this means that the franchise who did months of evaluation on Tua, invested a top 5 pick when other QB's (one notable one with a widely known stronger arm) were available, have decided that he isn't tthe guy after 10 games with 3 rookies on the OL, a pop-warner team of skilled players, no OTA's, etc.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying they can't make that judgment. I'm just saying if I'm in that room I feel pretty uneasy about voicing that opinion given how little they gave him to work with. If they gave him an offseason to learn/work with teammates, 1-2 weapons and a better OL, is anybody gonna be surprised if he makes a huge leap?

Again...I saw stuff I didn't like either. But moving on from him at this moment seems terribly decisive for an organization that hasn't proven it has the chops to be confident in a decision.

I'm with you on this. But it's only fair to add: unless they believe the hip injury took accuracy or velocity away and don't believe it's recoverable.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Further, even if there are doubts about Tua, is there any doubt that he was widely believed a stronger prospect coming out of college than anybody beyond Lawrence in this draft? I mean injuries aside, which by the way are NOT the source of today's concerns, can anyone argue that these other guys are more touted prospects?

So to me, there is no option to move on from him now unless you feel strongly you can acquire a better option. Show me the better prospect. If it's just gonna be a "maybe", it seems REALLY shortsighted to blow a #3 pick overall on a risk when you can at least use it to build the rest of a needy roster.

Well, you're not moving on from him. You're adding another blue-chip QB. If you'd take Lawrence, you should be willing to take Fields or Wilson imo.

 

[Dogbone34]

I like Tua but I would take a long look at Fields if he is there at 3.

It's a bold move but we have a rare opportunity at the position. Missing out on a Parsons, Chase or Smith is a tough choice for sure.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Well, you're not moving on from him. You're adding another blue-chip QB. If you'd take Lawrence, you should be willing to take Fields or Wilson imo.

Exactly. The top draft analyst from PFF made that point on Twitter earlier today. He said the Dolphins should absolutely consider a quarterback at #3. Then he added that it wouldn't be a Josh Rosen situation of bailing out for anything you can get. It would be a matter of bringing in competition for Tua. He wrote that he didn't understand why the quarterback position was immune from that type of thing.

How is that not common sense? Somehow the football world got all screwed up. You draft a guy early and hang the tag franchise quarterback on him, no matter who he is or how he plays. Then you wait around for years, rationalizing one thing after another other than maybe you should have more than one guy. And yes...the wait and see game occasionally works. That's how the deflective examples show up, as if it's supposed to end the argument.

Insisting we should not take another quarterback is exponentially more misguided than insisting we have to take one. These games don't end up 17-14 anymore. Nick Saban has commented on that. The 49ers tried to win it that way last season. I desperately rooted for them because it was almost certainly going to be their only shot. Kansas City will have chance after chance because it's now all about matching touchdowns in the 4th quarter. I challenge anyone to watch the college championship game or upcoming playoffs and pretend we can be content with a chess piece strategy of filling one spot after another, while hoping we stumble upon a quarterback along the way. That's where the Redskins are. I savored their win over the Steelers to evict the final unbeaten team. But I don't want to build that way.

The Dolphins have countless options this year. Certainly more than last season, when it had to be a quarterback. I would be calm with Tua if he looked a physical match to the league. Instead there is definitely a drop since that Mississippi State game. Maybe the hip injury prevented him from getting his lower half into the ball. Maybe it's fixed upon greater health and two years removed. I have no idea. Since we have the third pick I'm inclined to get greedy and attack the most important position, with those fourth quarter realities in mind. Again, maybe I have an advantage as a gambler. I don't care about being wrong half the time.

Zach Wilson is intriguing as heck. I'll be shocked if the Jets pass on him. Mormon Mahomes is not a bad nickname. I don't know why everyone is stuck on the 2020 opponents. Why does that always happen, that only the most recent season is considered? I guess I watch more games and especially more West Coast games since I have wagers. BYU as independent had to frantically patch a schedule in pandemic 2020. But in 2019 they played perhaps the most ambitious schedule in the country over the first month. No breathers. Wilson led upset victories over Tennessee and USC while losing to Utah and Washington.

The USC game is when I realized he was a bonafide prospect. Wilson reminds me of Drew Lock with a brain. Actually he's like a combo of Lock, Mayfield and Mahomes. If anything the altered platforms are even more varied and frequent than Mahomes. But Wilson doesn't have quite the arm strength to pull that off far downfield in the NFL. He'll need to be aware of that. He also plays with a very wide base. IMO, that needs work. Sometimes he senses he needs to throw it quickly but his feet are so wide he relies too much on arm alone because he knows a full stride will be too late. Better arm than Tua but not great. He'll undoubtedly suffer some cross field picks early in his NFL career as a result. Overboard confidence to the deep sideline. He also needs to shorten his stride while running, so he can surrender more quickly and not expose his legs.

Young guys like that will have arm strength improvement. Same with Tua. Wilson is not the typical mission BYU player who is already 24 years old with two kids. He'll still be 21 at the time of the draft. Baby faced kid. I was shocked during that 2019 USC game when they ran some clips of interviews with Wilson. He seemed more like a junior at Columbus High School in Miami than starting quarterback at BYU.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

I buy that the Jets take Wilson. So, what's the scouting report on Fields? I've watched highlights of both, but I don't put much into that for quarterbacks. In those highlights, both quarterbacks had all day to throw the ball. You can see arm strength, athletic ability etc. But with quarterbacks, I always want to see how they perform in crunch times, with the game on the line?

Anyway, looking for opinions from those who watch more college football than I do. I've seen some Ohio State, no BYU games.

One advantage to taking a quarterback is that you can likely get value back in a trade. That said, I'm not sure the value will match what you get on draft day???

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

The priority should be to get elite talent on the roster.

If a QB is is evaluated as elite and better than Tua, take him at 3. Otherwise take whoever else it is.

Or trade down and for extra draft capital.

This is a great discussion by the way.

I think that's what it comes down to. Evaluate Tua, Wilson and Fields. Who does the organization see as the best player among these three?

My "guess " would be Tua. But, there is the injury factor to take into account.