ZT Unloaded

ErroneousFlint

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Dphins4me said:
Then you are not much of a Phins fan.


I wish people would stop referring to ZT as the heart & soul of this team and thinking its some great compliment to him. Considering how many times this team has fail, especially in clutch situations. It is actually an insult to him. Now if Miami's D was tough and a D teams were afraid to face, then we could talk.

ZT is not the heart & soul of the team. Miami is something like 7-2 in games when Zach did not play over his career. Zach is what he is. A tackling machine, but outside that he has brought little to the team other than his ability to whine.
Well, i can understand the man's uhm loyalty to dan marino and i shared the same. i still do. anyone who appreciated dan marino's contribution to dolphin football over his career could understand and even have empathy for the scumbag way eddie jones and company (including DW) treated him. in this respect i can see going to another team but hey, the guy's still rooting the Phins so.....
 

ErroneousFlint

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FiN.in.RI said:
yea and? where did I say that Thomas should stay over Surtain?
sorry, man. my mistake. you'd rather "have" surtain. didn't know what you meant. maybe the word is "keep" or maybe you would rather "have" surtain but i ain't going there.
 

Deus Ex Dolphin

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The salary cap hit means Zach will stay on another year or two. Plus, you have to figure in the effect trading Zach would have on Jason Taylor, his brother-in-law.

Think you'd be upset if a member of your family was forced out? Depending on how disgruntled Zach was, it could really change Taylors' attitude toward the team too.

So, do you trade away BOTH Zach and JT? What kind of cap hit is that? :eek:

How much does the defense slip without those guys here? Zach might be replaced by Pope, but Taylor? We have no one of his caliber.

Getting Zach and a couple other guys to redo contracts to lower the cap hit next year and bring in some FA players is possible. Once again, you push the cap hit into the future, but if you want to win "now" that is what needs to be done.
 

ErroneousFlint

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Deus Ex Dolphin said:
The salary cap hit means Zach will stay on another year or two. Plus, you have to figure in the effect trading Zach would have on Jason Taylor, his brother-in-law.

Think you'd be upset if a member of your family was forced out? Depending on how disgruntled Zach was, it could really change Taylors' attitude toward the team too.

So, do you trade away BOTH Zach and JT? What kind of cap hit is that? :eek:

How much does the defense slip without those guys here? Zach might be replaced by Pope, but Taylor? We have no one of his caliber.

Getting Zach and a couple other guys to redo contracts to lower the cap hit next year and bring in some FA players is possible. Once again, you push the cap hit into the future, but if you want to win "now" that is what needs to be done.
your first point is valid but the issue about family is nonsense. this is football not day care. and isnt this defense slipping already?
 

LarryFinFan

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Why are we talking about trying to fix what is not broken ?? Lets worry about what we can do to improve the team....replacing ZT with Pope and thinking that makes the team better is idiotic....

Besides, as has been brought up time and again, the biggest flaw in the trade ZT scenario is that we CANNOT afford to take that kind of cap hit. ZT, JT, PS stay because of their affect on the cap....Madison might also be in that category too, I don't remember the details of his latest restructure...the front office of the Fins has been mortgaging the decent defensive players to get offensive players...problem is that the offensive players they have gotten have not been able to do the job...we are probably have one more year before we are in complete (can you say SF 49ers ?) cap he!!...
 

Deus Ex Dolphin

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ErroneousFlint said:
your first point is valid but the issue about family is nonsense. this is football not day care. and isnt this defense slipping already?

This defense is one solid DT from being very good. Certainly good enough to win a Super Bowl. It has choked in big games, but that was more of the Wanny "play-not-to-lose" attitude. The talent is there.

As for family issues? What? You think these players are machines? Egos and emotions are a very real part of dealing with players today.
 

CanadaPhinsFan

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ErroneousFlint said:
your first point is valid but the issue about family is nonsense. this is football not day care. and isnt this defense slipping already?
Then why are you concerned about Zach's apparent bad attitude?

You say Zach isn't a leader and doesn't support the future of the team because he doesn't want the young guys to play? The guy is a leader. There's no way you can question it. He goes out there every week and does anything he can to help his team win. He usually has nothing but positive things to say.

The NFL is a business and trading/releasing ZT doesn't make business sense. This tem won't survive if it can't put fans in the seats. If you lose your most marketable offensive player one year, then force out your most marketable defensive player the next, what's left to sell to the fans?
 

dolfan3033

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Bottom line, ZT is a Dolphin for life... He's retiring as a Dolphin, and I'm happy that he will be. Trading Zach is just dumb. Your not going to get what he's worth to this team... He's a tremendous asset to this team, and with his age and salary, you'll get nothing close to the value he is to this team.

As far as everyone saying he's not the heart and soul of this defense.. are you kidding me? How do you guys know what goes on in the locker room? How do you know what is said in the huttle? You dont, so stop acting like you know exactly every mental aspect of every defensive player.

Zach is a Dolphin for life and I'm d@mn proud of it!!
 

BuGaLoU

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I love how the two rookies have one good game and now everyone is like OMGZ THEY SHOULD START TRADE ZACK!
 

Dphins4me

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KYfinfan said:
That still doesn't get them out of his salary. If Zach is traded or cut his signing bonus is accelerated and the Dolphins will take the cap hit next year.
On further review, Zachs salary for next year is only 660K but a signing bonus of 2.3, so no need to get rid of him next year since the cap hit would be 9 millon plus. I knew that deal for him would kill Miami.

KYfinfan said:
Zach is either going to have to restructure or the Dolphins are going to have to pay him another year or two to keep from having a lot of "dead" money.
No more restructuring. It only pushes the cap hit into the future.
 

Dphins4me

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tay0365 said:
Says who, you? When I guy is making 150 tackles a year, being the main and consistant disruption to an offense, and is one the key player that every week a plan has to be made to make sure the team knows where he is, then yes, he is worth that type of many.
What offense has ZT disrupted in the last few years?

tay0365 said:
Can you name me 3 Middle or Inside Linebackers better or more effective then Zach, as hard as you try, the only one that will consistantly be said to be better, is Ray Lewis.

For the money they are being paid I can. Jay Foreman is a ILB and he is making comparable tackles and not getting the pay check Zach is. London Fletcher is another that is making tackles and not getting the pay Zach is.

Those are just two off the top of my head. If I did a little research then I most likely could name others.

Tackles are not what Zach is being paid millions to do. He is being paid to be a leader and a game changers. Not what he is doing.

Tell me the last time Zach made a play the decided a game or changed it?

tay0365 said:
Zach is still the heart of this defense, take him away, and watch the defense slowly crumble.
Have you not noticed how the D is slowly crumbling with Zach? How many 100 yard rushers have Miami had against them?
 

Dphins4me

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darkoak said:
Ok problem with all this trade Zach talk is the cap hit we'd take. Pure and simple. There's no way around it. He will finish his career as a Dolphin, or if his contract ends before he does, he'll leave as a free agent.
Zach will be gone by 2006, when his salary starts rising into the millions.
 

jaxdolfan

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ErroneousFlint said:
If Pope and Moore step up in Thomas' absence you unload the expensive, aging, gimpy Zach Thomas NOW, not when he's unattractive. So why wouldn't Thomas be Trade Bait to someone who is willing to pay him?
Even at the beginning of this season, it looked liked we needed him.
Don't forget that remark he made about "not playing as hard".
I say that he goes to either the Cowboys, Texans, or Jets ...
Your wealth of ignorance is astounding.

The whole defense funnels everything towards Zach. You can move him and you cant replace him. Period.
 

TouchMyMarino

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A tackle ends a play for the opposing offense. There is absolutely nothing to prove that someone else wouldn't have been able to stop the play eventually, but in the same vein there's no proof a tackle doesn't stop a touchdown.

Someone here criticized Thomas' tackles for being sent to him by the scheme or deep and downfield. If the scheme is made so that Thomas stops the play you have to figure there's a reason for that and I'm sure it's not 'to mask his defensive inability'. And if he's stopping plays downfield, well, he likely is preventing scores.

Tackles are not useless stats. They stop a play. Every time a tackles is missed, it usually ends up in a big gain. Tackles are important. The people calling for Pope and Bua are the same people that have been calling Sage's number for the last year or more.
 
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