Trade Rumor?

Feverdream said:

I think it would be more of a lose/lose.

We know for a fact that our costs are going up in future years due to extending and resigning our stars... and that we are probably going to be forced to let some of them walk.
Taking on a one year rental on a DT for 15.5m in cash this year would utterly wipe out our remaining cap space and hamstring our ability to keep other... younger players.

Even if Washington were willing to eat half of that 15.5m, we'd be left with a 30 year old DT slated to make 17m in 2025 when Sieler works for 10m/year.

We'd be renting an older player for one year and likely pissing off Sieler in the process. Remember how Hoard acted when we brought in a CB who made more than she did?

It's horrible economics and the type of move you make when your QB is 39 years old.

I'm pretty sure that Grier is smarter than that.

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I’m not sure what Sieler has to do with anything. Miami is switching to a 3-4. Sieler would play one of the end positions while Allen would play the other end and tart in middle. When you want to rush from a 4-3 you move Sieler and Allen inside Chubb and Chop on the ends with Phillips and Barrett/Kamara rushing standing up. Either way there will be no shortage of a 300 pound pass rusher along with Sieler.

Everyone wanted to pay Wilkins but you dont want to pay Allen who’s a better pass rusher at a substantial discount over what Wilkins would have cost. Allen just turned 29, Wilkins turns 29 in December, they are only a few months apart as well since you threw out the 30 year old remark.

MARINO1384 said:

I’m not sure what Sieler has to do with anything. Miami is switching to a 3-4. Sieler would play one of the end positions while Allen would play the other end and tart in middle. When you want to rush from a 4-3 you move Sieler and Allen inside Chubb and Chop on the ends with Phillips and Barrett/Kamara rushing standing up. Either way there will be no shortage of a 300 pound pass rusher along with Sieler.

Everyone wanted to pay Wilkins but you dont want to pay Allen who’s a better pass rusher at a substantial discount over what Wilkins would have cost. Allen just turned 29, Wilkins turns 29 in December, they are only a few months apart as well since you threw out the 30 year old remark.

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'Everyone' did not include me... or Grier... or McD.

Paying big dollars to a DT is... stupid.

Why do I bring up Sieler?

Two reasons... production and resentment.

First production.
SIeler last year: 63 tackles, 10 sacks, 1 Int. Pay 8m this year.
Allen last year: 53 tackles, 5.5 sacks, 0 Ints. Pay 15.5m this year.

This is the EXACT situation that we encountered when we brought in Jones and that then caused Hoard to throw a sissy fit and hold out for a renegotiated contract.

You want to pay Allen and then renegotiate Sieler's contract (because he is better at this point in time than Allen)???
Destroy the salary cap savings that we've managed by allowing CW to leave?

Not just no, but Hell No... this isn't Madden and doing a brain-dead deal like this would cost us multiple players in 2025.

No

Full stop...

No.

Feverdream said:

'Everyone' did not include me... or Grier... or McD.

Paying big dollars to a DT is... stupid.

Why do I bring up Sieler?

Two reasons... production and resentment.

First production.
SIeler last year: 63 tackles, 10 sacks, 1 Int. Pay 8m this year.
Allen last year: 53 tackles, 5.5 sacks, 0 Ints. Pay 15.5m this year.

This is the EXACT situation that we encountered when we brought in Jones and that then caused Hoard to throw a sissy fit and hold out for a renegotiated contract.

You want to pay Allen and then renegotiate Sieler's contract (because he is better at this point in time than Allen)???
Destroy the salary cap savings that we've managed by allowing CW to leave?

Not just no, but Hell No... this isn't Madden and doing a brain-dead deal like this would cost us multiple players in 2025.

No

Full stop...

No.

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Dumb for paying DTs? The Chiefs would disagree. The problem was for Wilkins to be worth what LV paid him, he should be a much better pass rusher.

MrChadRico said:

Dumb for paying DTs? The Chiefs would disagree. The problem was for Wilkins to be worth what LV paid him, he should be a much better pass rusher.

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That would make him an 'elite' player... an all-pro, and sometimes teams overpay elite players from non-elite positions.

I submit that this is a rather serious mistake in the salary cap era, and I would further suggest that the current leadership of the Dolphins also shares this opinion.

I'm fundamentally against paying top 10 money to any player who plays a non-elite position. Sure, you might do it for a year... once in awhile, but locking down too large of a percentage of your cap on DTs, Safeties, or Guards limits your ammo to spend where it matters more.

Where does it matter? Watch the draft. The positions that see 5 or 6 players come off the board in the first... that's where you spend. DTs are a second echelon position... which is why you see a run on them annually in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Teams select DTs when the prime positions are wiped out. (And I expect us to draft one next year. Which is another reason why spending cap on an Allen is a very poor allocation of funds).

Feverdream said:

'Everyone' did not include me... or Grier... or McD.

Paying big dollars to a DT is... stupid.

Why do I bring up Sieler?

Two reasons... production and resentment.

First production.
SIeler last year: 63 tackles, 10 sacks, 1 Int. Pay 8m this year.
Allen last year: 53 tackles, 5.5 sacks, 0 Ints. Pay 15.5m this year.

This is the EXACT situation that we encountered when we brought in Jones and that then caused Hoard to throw a sissy fit and hold out for a renegotiated contract.

You want to pay Allen and then renegotiate Sieler's contract (because he is better at this point in time than Allen)???
Destroy the salary cap savings that we've managed by allowing CW to leave?

Not just no, but Hell No... this isn't Madden and doing a brain-dead deal like this would cost us multiple players in 2025.

No

Full stop...

No.

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So your reasoning is some made up scenario in your head?

Have you literally ever heard Sieler speak? Dudes one of the most humble guys in the league who was an udfa and is just grateful to be given the chance to play. Comparing him to a premadonna like Howard who was a top 5 corner at the time is absolutely crazy.

As for production how about looking at a larger sample size. Funny you only showed stats from last year. NFL did exist prior.

Conveniently left out how Allen had 7.5 sacks while Sieler had 3.5 in 2022 or how Allen had 9.5 in 2021 while Sieler was still a bench player racking up 2 sacks or how Allen had triple the qb hits in that time frame and double the TFL’s in those two years. You don’t think beyond one season counts for contracts and more than justify’s Allen being paid more?

They wanted to pay Wilkins over double what they gave Sieler. This wasn’t a kept secret and just about every report had them offering Wilkins in the 20 million a year range. If compensation isn’t crazy and you can get him still substantially cheaper than Wilkins it’s a no brainer.

You also ignored the fact they’d both be starting DE’s not just 4/3 DT’s. Guys that can not only pass rush but take up multiple blockers are critical to the success of a 3-4 defense.

Feverdream said:

That would make him an 'elite' player... an all-pro, and sometimes teams overpay elite players from non-elite positions.

I submit that this is a rather serious mistake in the salary cap era, and I would further suggest that the current leadership of the Dolphins also shares this opinion.

I'm fundamentally against paying top 10 money to any player who plays a non-elite position. Sure, you might do it for a year... once in awhile, but locking down too large of a percentage of your cap on DTs, Safeties, or Guards limits your ammo to spend where it matters more.

Where does it matter? Watch the draft. The positions that see 5 or 6 players come off the board in the first... that's where you spend. DTs are a second echelon position... which is why you see a run on them annually in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Teams select DTs when the prime positions are wiped out. (And I expect us to draft one next year. Which is another reason why spending cap on an Allen is a very poor allocation of funds).

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Like are you just not familiar with Allen? Calling him a not top 10 player is insane…

6th graded pass rushing DT in 2020
3rd graded in 2021
7th graded in 2022
20th graded in 2023 in a down year

If you’re not a pff believe me feel free to google “top interior defenders” and I promise you Allen is either inside or right around 10 in every single list….

Also enough with the salary cap dude. It doesn’t matter. Every single move we have made shows we are going all out these next two years. Miami will twist and turn that cap to do what they need. I don’t know if it’s the smart move but that’s what they appear to be doing.