Arizona OL Fire Sale? L.J. Shelton could be next... | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Arizona OL Fire Sale? L.J. Shelton could be next...

ckparrothead

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http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/0802cardsnb-ON.html

L.J. Shelton showed up to camp and workouts overweight, and p!ssed Denny Green off. So...he's in the doghouse, even though he's lost all that weight.

He also got replaced by high profile pick Leonard Davis, whom Denny wants desperately to ascend into a high profile left tackle. It makes sense, Davis was drafted to play Left Tackle, and all this time he's been spending his time inexplicably at guard (and doing a fantastic job there too).

I know people may have a philosophical objection to taking the castoffs of a team like the Arizona Cardinals...but you can't deny that Pete Kendall and L.J. Shelton, probably bring something to the table that we may not already have here in Miami.

L.J. Shelton, btw, is not that bad at all. He commanded a 5 year $22 million extension not too long ago. So IF he's cut, big if, he could be worth pursuing.

At this point I'm all for hording good linemen and just seeing how they shake out.

You know what scares me? Dave Wannstedt publicly stated that the loser of the St.Clair/Carey battle will be the swing tackle.

S-C-A-R-Y.

St. Clair should NEVER, and I mean, EVER, find himself lined up on the field at left tackle. IMO, its worst than having Spencer Folau.

And if Carey is the loser of that RT battle, what does that say about CAREY's ability to line right up and play LT in a pinch? Yowsa.

The real question I think, is IF Shelton gets cut (big IF, all speculation at this point), do we feel like Shelton is better than McIntosh? Yup. We should basically, at least for now, disregard McIntosh's presence on this roster. We don't know when he'll be healed, or what he'll look like afterward, and basically we've got something like 10 weeks to find a roster spot for him anyway since he'll start on the PUP list. If Shelton and McIntosh were available at the same time in FA, I think we would have gone for Shelton not McIntosh, and thats disregarding injury issues with Damion.

Is anyone here even all that confident in Wade Smith? I'm not. I wasn't at the very beginning of the offseason, then I got distracted by other issues, and now as mini-camps and training camps start, and we continue to hear about him getting abused despite this new 10 to 15 pound slab of brisket on his personage, and plus injury issues...I'm getting reminded why I didn't feel he was ready to start as a rookie, and probably won't be ready to start as a sophomore. If he goes from a 16 sack allower to a 12 sack allower, sure thats progress, but that doesn't mean we've got a quality LT yet. Would it be so terribly bad if he needed to be replaced for a year while he continued to develop? Would it really hurt our egos that much?

Also as far as Pete Kendall goes, is he better than Greg Jerman at RG? Probably. Does he have durability issues? Probably. Heck he might even be better than Seth McKinney at Center.

I hope our front office has not lost the will to continue to change this team to make it better. We kept hearing from them during free agency at the beginning, and in previous years, how a significant number of our moves will come late in June or July, even August. But I'm sensing that this is becoming more of a placating excuse for their not doing much in February and March, and I'm sensing a loss of will to really ADD those names late in the game because they are too caught up with who has been here and who has learned the playbook (which isn't even settled yet because of our offensive coordinator disaster) rather than who is more talented and can flat out play and help this team.
 
Pete Kendall is gone. The Rams got him.

Monday wrap-up

I wouldn't be opposed to giving Shelton a look.

ckparrothead said:
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/0802cardsnb-ON.html

L.J. Shelton showed up to camp and workouts overweight, and p!ssed Denny Green off. So...he's in the doghouse, even though he's lost all that weight.

He also got replaced by high profile pick Leonard Davis, whom Denny wants desperately to ascend into a high profile left tackle. It makes sense, Davis was drafted to play Left Tackle, and all this time he's been spending his time inexplicably at guard (and doing a fantastic job there too).

I know people may have a philosophical objection to taking the castoffs of a team like the Arizona Cardinals...but you can't deny that Pete Kendall and L.J. Shelton, probably bring something to the table that we may not already have here in Miami.

L.J. Shelton, btw, is not that bad at all. He commanded a 5 year $22 million extension not too long ago. So IF he's cut, big if, he could be worth pursuing.

At this point I'm all for hording good linemen and just seeing how they shake out.

You know what scares me? Dave Wannstedt publicly stated that the loser of the St.Clair/Carey battle will be the swing tackle.

S-C-A-R-Y.

St. Clair should NEVER, and I mean, EVER, find himself lined up on the field at left tackle. IMO, its worst than having Spencer Folau.

And if Carey is the loser of that RT battle, what does that say about CAREY's ability to line right up and play LT in a pinch? Yowsa.

The real question I think, is IF Shelton gets cut (big IF, all speculation at this point), do we feel like Shelton is better than McIntosh? Yup. We should basically, at least for now, disregard McIntosh's presence on this roster. We don't know when he'll be healed, or what he'll look like afterward, and basically we've got something like 10 weeks to find a roster spot for him anyway since he'll start on the PUP list. If Shelton and McIntosh were available at the same time in FA, I think we would have gone for Shelton not McIntosh, and thats disregarding injury issues with Damion.

Is anyone here even all that confident in Wade Smith? I'm not. I wasn't at the very beginning of the offseason, then I got distracted by other issues, and now as mini-camps and training camps start, and we continue to hear about him getting abused despite this new 10 to 15 pound slab of brisket on his personage, and plus injury issues...I'm getting reminded why I didn't feel he was ready to start as a rookie, and probably won't be ready to start as a sophomore. If he goes from a 16 sack allower to a 12 sack allower, sure thats progress, but that doesn't mean we've got a quality LT yet. Would it be so terribly bad if he needed to be replaced for a year while he continued to develop? Would it really hurt our egos that much?

Also as far as Pete Kendall goes, is he better than Greg Jerman at RG? Probably. Does he have durability issues? Probably. Heck he might even be better than Seth McKinney at Center.

I hope our front office has not lost the will to continue to change this team to make it better. We kept hearing from them during free agency at the beginning, and in previous years, how a significant number of our moves will come late in June or July, even August. But I'm sensing that this is becoming more of a placating excuse for their not doing much in February and March, and I'm sensing a loss of will to really ADD those names late in the game because they are too caught up with who has been here and who has learned the playbook (which isn't even settled yet because of our offensive coordinator disaster) rather than who is more talented and can flat out play and help this team.
 
DrAstroZoom said:
Pete Kendall is gone. The Rams got him.

Monday wrap-up

I wouldn't be opposed to giving Shelton a look.
St. Louis Rams: One day after Kyle Turley left training camp due to recurring back problems, the Rams signed right tackle Greg Randall to a one-year contract.
It says Greg Randall. I did a search for Pete Kendall in that article you linked to and didn't even see him mentioned at all. Did I miss something?
 
ckparrothead said:
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/0802cardsnb-ON.html

L.J. Shelton showed up to camp and workouts overweight, and p!ssed Denny Green off. So...he's in the doghouse, even though he's lost all that weight.

He also got replaced by high profile pick Leonard Davis, whom Denny wants desperately to ascend into a high profile left tackle. It makes sense, Davis was drafted to play Left Tackle, and all this time he's been spending his time inexplicably at guard (and doing a fantastic job there too).

I know people may have a philosophical objection to taking the castoffs of a team like the Arizona Cardinals...but you can't deny that Pete Kendall and L.J. Shelton, probably bring something to the table that we may not already have here in Miami.

L.J. Shelton, btw, is not that bad at all. He commanded a 5 year $22 million extension not too long ago. So IF he's cut, big if, he could be worth pursuing.

At this point I'm all for hording good linemen and just seeing how they shake out.

You know what scares me? Dave Wannstedt publicly stated that the loser of the St.Clair/Carey battle will be the swing tackle.

S-C-A-R-Y.

St. Clair should NEVER, and I mean, EVER, find himself lined up on the field at left tackle. IMO, its worst than having Spencer Folau.

And if Carey is the loser of that RT battle, what does that say about CAREY's ability to line right up and play LT in a pinch? Yowsa.

The real question I think, is IF Shelton gets cut (big IF, all speculation at this point), do we feel like Shelton is better than McIntosh? Yup. We should basically, at least for now, disregard McIntosh's presence on this roster. We don't know when he'll be healed, or what he'll look like afterward, and basically we've got something like 10 weeks to find a roster spot for him anyway since he'll start on the PUP list. If Shelton and McIntosh were available at the same time in FA, I think we would have gone for Shelton not McIntosh, and thats disregarding injury issues with Damion.

Is anyone here even all that confident in Wade Smith? I'm not. I wasn't at the very beginning of the offseason, then I got distracted by other issues, and now as mini-camps and training camps start, and we continue to hear about him getting abused despite this new 10 to 15 pound slab of brisket on his personage, and plus injury issues...I'm getting reminded why I didn't feel he was ready to start as a rookie, and probably won't be ready to start as a sophomore. If he goes from a 16 sack allower to a 12 sack allower, sure thats progress, but that doesn't mean we've got a quality LT yet. Would it be so terribly bad if he needed to be replaced for a year while he continued to develop? Would it really hurt our egos that much?

Also as far as Pete Kendall goes, is he better than Greg Jerman at RG? Probably. Does he have durability issues? Probably. Heck he might even be better than Seth McKinney at Center.

I hope our front office has not lost the will to continue to change this team to make it better. We kept hearing from them during free agency at the beginning, and in previous years, how a significant number of our moves will come late in June or July, even August. But I'm sensing that this is becoming more of a placating excuse for their not doing much in February and March, and I'm sensing a loss of will to really ADD those names late in the game because they are too caught up with who has been here and who has learned the playbook (which isn't even settled yet because of our offensive coordinator disaster) rather than who is more talented and can flat out play and help this team.

You are right on with this post CK, Wade Smith has not impressed me either, last year especially..Todd Wade did better as a rookie. And like you, this season hasn't given me hope for improvement, heck JT needs a better linemen to go against so he can get ready for the season, he's picking Wade a apart and JT knows he can't do that with all the LT's he'll face during the season...He's needs a better LT to go against and we need a better LT to protect our QB. Every one keeps talking about our right side, I'm not sure if our left flank is secure..I only people I'm somewhat comfortable with is Seth and James. That's only 2/5 of our line...Very Scary..
 
DrAstroZoom said:
Nope ... I misread it. :smackhead:
No worriers. I just got worried that it was true, becuase I read in one of the espn insider local articles that we may be bringing him in for a look. Of course now I can't find the article, so perhaps I miss read that one. I did find this quote in the Palm Beach Post:

Line him up: The Dolphins do have interest in center/guard Pete Kendall, who was released Sunday by the Cardinals less than three weeks after new coach Dennis Green tabbed the eight-year veteran as a starter.

Kendall's agent, Neil Schwartz, said at least 12 teams already had been in contact.

Dolphins General Manager Rick Spielman said he has concerns about Kendall's durability.
 
MDFINFAN said:
You are right on with this post CK, Wade Smith has not impressed me either, last year especially..Todd Wade did better as a rookie. And like you, this season hasn't given me hope for improvement, heck JT needs a better linemen to go against so he can get ready for the season, he's picking Wade a apart and JT knows he can't do that with all the LT's he'll face during the season...He's needs a better LT to go against and we need a better LT to protect our QB. Every one keeps talking about our right side, I'm not sure if our left flank is secure..I only people I'm somewhat comfortable with is Seth and James. That's only 2/5 of our line...Very Scary..

The problem with Todd Wade is he did worse as a sophomore and did about the same during his junior year.
 
DrAstroZoom said:
Nope ... I misread it. :smackhead:
damn you almost gave me a heart attack!! if another o-lineman gets away from us im gonna be pis***!! i have no confidence in our current guys
 
Good post, CK.

I've no idea what the Cardinals are doing on the line. They've cut their third best OL, and (for now) have turned their second best OL into a backup. Shelton could be an excellent pickup for us on the off chance he gets cut loose. I'm not as worried about Wade Smith as you seem to be; he got better as last year went on, and will only continue to do so. But I'm perfectly fine with the concept of stockpiling as many good linemen as we can and letting things shake out in camp.
 
Both Kendall and Shelton (if he gets cut) would be great pick ups for us. Too bad Leonard Davis didn't complain about workouts :D
 
The problem with Todd Wade is he did worse as a sophomore and did about the same during his junior year.

Sometimes I wonder if he actually did worst in those two years, or if, not unlike Chambers, his rookie year just gave us such high expectations that he seemed to disappoint us from then on merely because he didn't become an All-Pro. But, you're probably right.

I agree with everything you said, MD, except of the TWO linemen you mentioned that you are somewhat comfortable with, the only one that I am comfortable with, is James. I do not feel as confident in Seth as most. I might even be hoping that Rex Hadnot surprises us bigtime. Also here's one thought...if Jeno James is BY FAR our best OL in all these drills and in the live action...we might consider playing him at LT. Your best OL has to go play LT if he can do it. James has experience there...Just a small thought.

I've no idea what the Cardinals are doing on the line. They've cut their third best OL, and (for now) have turned their second best OL into a backup. Shelton could be an excellent pickup for us on the off chance he gets cut loose. I'm not as worried about Wade Smith as you seem to be; he got better as last year went on, and will only continue to do so. But I'm perfectly fine with the concept of stockpiling as many good linemen as we can and letting things shake out in camp.

About Smith doing well as the year wore on...I'm not all that convinced. I mean, mid-year against Indy he basically lost us the game by allowing Dwight Freeney to pass him like Mario Andretti racing Aunt Louise. One week later in week 10 against Tennessee Jevon Kearse (right end for the titans at the time) collects 2 sacks. And, if he did well after that...well, after that he didn't exactly have to face a consistent pass rusher. Baltimore rushes with the linebackers, Suggs, Boulware, Thomas, etc. Philly didn't have a real name passrusher (thats why they drafted McDougle, but McDougle took an injury in training camp and was out for the year).

After Tennessee, the best passrushers that Wade Smith faced off against were Richard Seymour of the Pats, Mike Vrabel of the Pats, Terrell Suggs and Peter Boulware, and Aaron Schobel of the Bills. The funny part is that of those matchups, Richard Seymour came up with 1 sack, Vrabel came out of the New England game with 2 sacks, and Schobel came out with 1 sack. Ellis, Suggs, and Boulware didn't come out with any. Thats not exactly a whole lot of accomplishment.

We're talking about 7 games here. 4 of those were up against teams with no consistent passrusher to challenge Wade Smith: Washington had none, Dallas had none, Philly didn't have much, and when we faced the Jets John Abraham was out (and Shaun Ellis collected a sack). Of the three games with consistent passrush, Aaron Schobel got a sack against Wade, New England ripped us apart with 3 sacks from Seymour and Vrabel alone (and a 12-0 win), and we held on against Baltimore 9-6 and didn't allow too many sacks.

So when we say that Wade got better as the season wore on, don't we really mean he had a good game against Baltimore and the competition got easier as the season wore on?
 
Doesn't Shelton play tackle?? We need guards not tackles. With St Clair, Carey, MacIntosh and Wade I dont see the need for a tackle. There is certainly a glaring need at RG. I say get Kendall to play either C or G and move Seth over if necessary. Dont let another O lineman get away rick!! Well unless it means we cant sign CC and wally.
 
We need whatever we can get, with Wade Smith being manhandled daily, St. Clair and Carey getting abused as well. The pads are on, the excuses are out. Carey is a rookie, St. Clair is not very good, and Wade Smith still hasn't given us much reason to think he'll do much better than last year.
 
ckparrothead said:
About Smith doing well as the year wore on...I'm not all that convinced. I mean, mid-year against Indy he basically lost us the game by allowing Dwight Freeney to pass him like Mario Andretti racing Aunt Louise. One week later in week 10 against Tennessee Jevon Kearse (right end for the titans at the time) collects 2 sacks. And, if he did well after that...well, after that he didn't exactly have to face a consistent pass rusher. Baltimore rushes with the linebackers, Suggs, Boulware, Thomas, etc. Philly didn't have a real name passrusher (thats why they drafted McDougle, but McDougle took an injury in training camp and was out for the year).

After Tennessee, the best passrushers that Wade Smith faced off against were Richard Seymour of the Pats, Mike Vrabel of the Pats, Terrell Suggs and Peter Boulware, and Aaron Schobel of the Bills. The funny part is that of those matchups, Richard Seymour came up with 1 sack, Vrabel came out of the New England game with 2 sacks, and Schobel came out with 1 sack. Ellis, Suggs, and Boulware didn't come out with any. Thats not exactly a whole lot of accomplishment.

We're talking about 7 games here. 4 of those were up against teams with no consistent passrusher to challenge Wade Smith: Washington had none, Dallas had none, Philly didn't have much, and when we faced the Jets John Abraham was out (and Shaun Ellis collected a sack). Of the three games with consistent passrush, Aaron Schobel got a sack against Wade, New England ripped us apart with 3 sacks from Seymour and Vrabel alone (and a 12-0 win), and we held on against Baltimore 9-6 and didn't allow too many sacks.

So when we say that Wade got better as the season wore on, don't we really mean he had a good game against Baltimore and the competition got easier as the season wore on?

Did all three New England sacks come against Smith? Seems to me like Vrabel would have gotten his against Ruddy, Nails or Perry.

Your larger point, however, has merit to it. Maybe we should be more concerned about Smith than we are; obviously I saw him get killed against Freeney and Kearse, but I thought he had fared better than the numbers seem to indicate.
 
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