Black QBs are underrated and underpaid | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Black QBs are underrated and underpaid

B

BAMAPHIN 22

FinHeaven Elite
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
19,666
Reaction score
46
Location
Huntsville, AL
Is the NFL's quarterback rating system racist?

That's a trick question. The league doesn't have a quarterback rating system; it has a passer rating system, which takes completions, passing yards, touchdown passes and interceptions, weighs them roughly equally by attempt and smooshes them into one number. Problem is, for many fans, GMs and sportswriters, this distinction is lost, and passer rating simply represents overall QB value. But notice what's left out of the formula: rushing yards and rushing TDs, two key stats that happen to be disproportionately amassed by black QBs.

Since 2005, just five starting signal-callers have had seasons of 100 or more snaps in which they ran the ball on more than 15 percent of their plays: Vince Young (four times), Michael Vick (three), David Garrard (two), Jason Campbell and Tarvaris Jackson. All are African-American. Of the top 10 seasons in yards per carry by starting QBs over that span, seven are by black QBs, topped by Vick's amazing 8.4 YPC in 2006. To be clear, these numbers don't mean that all black QBs rush for more yards than all white QBs or that black players have more speed than white players. But they do indicate that running tends to be a far more important part of overall play for QBs who are African-American than for those who aren't.

Why? Nobody knows for sure, but I have a theory. Suppose that, whether because of old stereotypes, old habits or some unarticulated mix of the two, it's hard for many coaches and recruiters to envision a black quarterback leading their team. Now suppose those men will yield if their job or a potential title is at stake. Under those circumstances, if you're a black athlete, you can win a high school or college QB job if -- but likely only if -- you demonstrate such overwhelming superiority that the head coach has no choice but to put you in charge of the huddle. If you're Vick at Virginia Tech, and you have a passer rating of 180.4 (a national freshman record), you'll get to throw. If you're not, say hello to playing wideout, safety or the Wildcat. To develop at QB, African-Americans have always had to be dominant athletes, not just skilled passers, which means the best ones then carry an extra dimension of speed to the NFL.

Again, that's just a theory, but it's supported by plenty of evidence. No pro team started an African-American under center until 1968, when Marlin Briscoe led the Broncos. Just eight black QBs got significant playing time in the NFL before the mid-1990s. And from 2000 to 2006, while 65 percent of the league's players were black, just 27 percent of the QBs were, according to research released last year by economists David Berri and Rob Simmons. Yet when black QBs have gotten the chance to play, they have performed nearly identically to white ones in most stat categories from 1994 to 2006. The one gap: Black QBs rushed for an average of 20.1 yards per game over that span, while white QBs ran for just 7.0.
Click to expand...

http://espn.go.com/insider/blog/_/name/keating_peter/id/5764668/black-qbs-underrated-underpaid
 
It has nothing to do with race.... the football doesn't know what color the quarterback is.

The simple fact is, pocket passers are what wins in the NFL, not scramblers. Doesn't matter what race they are.

Steve Young was always known as a scrambler early in his career, but he didn't turn into a HOF'er and superbowl winner until he developed into a pocket passer.. He didn't win that superbowl over the Chargers by running around, he did it by throwing for a superbowl record for touchdown passes... from the pocket. As a pocket technician...

The reason the formula for passer rating doesn't factor in rushing yards is because it has nothing to do with passing the football.. it's pretty simple.


The only "black" quarterback to win a superbowl was Doug Williams... Williams was a pocket passer. Warren Moon is one of the 3 best pure passers I've ever seen.


Superior athletes that are better runners than they are passers can get away with playing the quarterback position in high school and college in these spread option/option systems... doesn't matter if they're black like Pat White and Tommy Frazier, or white like Eric Crouch. The football doesn't care what race you are...

However, these systems don't translate to the NFL, because the overall speed of defenses are so much greater. The lanes, openings, and creases that these type offenses are designed to create in high school/college, close so much faster in the NFL.

On top of that, the quarterback position is where owners of competent franchises have a significant investment made from a monetary standpoint.... they typically don't want their quarterback out there running around taking unneccessary hits from elite defenders. That's why the running back is there to turn around and hand the ball off to... which is also why it's the position with the shortest career span... you don't want those hits taking years off your quarterback.


It has nothing to do with old stereotypes, or old habits as to why the NFL game doesn't yield to running quarterbacks... it's because the league is smart enough to know it won't work.


Again, it has nothing to do with race... it has to do with what works and what doesn't.
 
Black QBs for the most part are hot garbage. Plain and simple.

The best was of course Warren Moon. I have him as one of the best 5 QBs Ive ever seen play and he almost never ran with the ball in the NFL.

Mike Vick has developed into a great QB this season. Back in Atlanta, he was hot garbage. He is really the only black QB playing in the NFL today that isnt hot garbage. Garrard is decent, but he isnt good enough to do anything special.

Black QBs are predominant in HS and college ball because in most of those systems you can typically just put your best overall athlete at the QB position. So long as they can throw a little, they can get the job done on those levels. In the NFL, that **** dosent fly. You have to be able to make plays within the pocket, make guys miss, reset, and fire strikes downfield. There are great athletes all over the field, so there arent going to be opportunities on every play to just take off running and make a huge play. You have to be able to throw it.

The whole thing can be summed up by a line from the character "Smokey" in the movie "Friday".....

Speaking of Debo strong arming people for material goods he said..........."Only on people he know. He dont be pullin that **** on them fools around the corner."

Essentially the making big plays by running the ball on either busted plays or by design and gaining huge chunks of yards is equivilant to the strong arming people for their stuff. The HS and college levels are the people he knows and the NFL is them fools around the corner.

Pat White.....dont bring that weak **** to the league. What kind of a ****ing moron drafts that dude in the 2nd round and expects him to be able to run all over the place on people in the league?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So blacks make up 65% of the league yet there's still talk of racism and QBs? How is that possible?
 
WVdolphan said:
Black QBs for the most part are hot garbage. Plain and simple.

The best was of course Warren Moon. I have him as one of the best 5 QBs Ive ever seen play and he almost never ran with the ball in the NFL.

Mike Vick has developed into a great QB this season. Back in Atlanta, he was hot garbage. He is really the only black QB playing in the NFL today that isnt hot garbage. Garrard is decent, but he isnt good enough to do anything special.

Black QBs are predominant in HS and college ball because in most of those systems you can typically just put your best overall athlete at the QB position. So long as they can throw a little, they can get the job done on those levels. In the NFL, that **** dosent fly. You have to be able to make plays within the pocket, make guys miss, reset, and fire strikes downfield. There are great athletes all over the field, so there arent going to be opportunities on every play to just take off running and make a huge play. You have to be able to throw it.

The whole thing can be summed up by a line from the character "Smokey" in the movie "Friday".....

Speaking of Debo strong arming people for material goods he said..........."Only on people he know. He dont be pullin that **** on them fools around the corner."

Essentially the making big plays by running the ball on either busted plays or by design and gaining huge chunks of yards is equivilant to the strong arming people for their stuff. The HS and college levels are the people he knows and the NFL is them fools around the corner.

Pat White.....dont bring that weak **** to the league. What kind of a ****ing moron drafts that dude in the 2nd round and expects him to be able to run all over the place on people in the league?
Click to expand...

so black qb's are inept?
 
WVdolphan said:
Most of them.

But, none of this matters. At least until we get Rixon's take on this issue.
Click to expand...

id love to get the percentages of white qb's and black qb's that are good.until then your analysis looks like bs.and its really hard to have a REALLY good qb.i sure wouldnt mind having michael vick as qb as opposed to chad henne...please break this down for me.
 
If you saw what happened to Aaron Rodgers yesterday while he was "scrambling" for a 1st down, it tells you all you need to know. That's why the NFL protects their quarterbacks the way they do.. and that's why "running" quarterbacks can't last in the NFL.

Vick broke his leg in a preseason game running around years ago...


You're not always going to be able to rely on athletic ability... your skills are going to deteriorate. The only way you can remain in the NFL is to be an intelligent pocket passer, with the ability to read defenses and deliver the football on time and on target from the pocket..
 
TedSlimmJr said:
If you saw what happened to Aaron Rodgers yesterday while he was "scrambling" for a 1st down, it tells you all you need to know. That's why the NFL protects their quarterbacks the way they do.. and that's why "running" quarterbacks can't last in the NFL.

Vick broke his leg in a preseason game running around years ago...


You're not always going to be able to rely on athletic ability... your skills are going to deteriorate. The only way you can remain in the NFL is to be an intelligent pocket passer, with the ability to read defenses and deliver the football on time and on target from the pocket..
Click to expand...

funny you bring up vick..while still using a lot of athletic ability hes definitely showing alot of poise in that pocket these days.i think nfl offenses like to exploit black qb's athletic ability because they think they are getting more out of them that way.if given the opportunity to play in an offense set up more like phillys i would bet black qb's would be more dangerous.
 
and as far as your aaron rodgers analogy,its pretty much moot because ALL qb's are going to scramble at some point..its just that some aren't as good as others. even "intelligent" pocket passers are going to get hit from time to time.
 
It's taken Vick 10 years to be an effective pocket passer....


Again, it's not a black QB vs. white QB issue, that's the media's job to make it one. It's a pocket passer vs. running QB that the rubber meets the road..

All black quarterbacks aren't scramblers, all white quarterbacks aren't pocket passers. Majority? Yes..


Nor am I saying that pocket passers won't get hurt standing in the pocket, we've all seen it. However, you're much less likely to do so than if you're out there running around.

Most black quarterbacks that come into the NFL are run first quarterbacks.... it's not how they're coached, it's their INSTINCT... and until you overcome that INSTINCT to run if your first progression isn't open, you'll never be an effective pocket passer. Which is why Vick was consistently the lowest rated passer in the league every year of his career in Atlanta from "inside the pocket"...

Fact is, 95% of run first quarterbacks will never overcome that instinct... doesn't matter if they're black or white.


Andy Reids offense isn't designed for a "black" quarterback... it's a West Coast Offense that's designed to work with a pocket passer, but with mobility... not a scrambler.

What Reid has done is ADAPT his offense around Vick to take advantage of his rare athletic ability and running prowess.

However, if you can't pass the football with anticipation and accuracy from inside the pocket, you're not going to play quarterback for Andy Reid, doesn't matter if you're black or white..
 
so basically all im saying is, it doesn't matter what race you are, just don't suck.how many white QB's have been benched in their careers?steve mcnair is rolling in his grave right now...
 
TedSlimmJr said:
It's taken Vick 10 years to be an effective pocket passer....


Again, it's not a black QB vs. white QB issue, that's the media's job to make it one. It's a pocket passer vs. running QB that the rubber meets the road..

All black quarterbacks aren't scramblers, all white quarterbacks aren't pocket passers. Majority? Yes..


Nor am I saying that pocket passers won't get hurt standing in the pocket, we've all seen it. However, you're much less likely to do so than if you're out there running around.

Most black quarterbacks that come into the NFL are run first quarterbacks.... it's not how they're coached, it's their INSTINCT... and until you overcome that INSTINCT to run if your first progression isn't open, you'll never be an effective pocket passer. Which is why Vick was consistently the lowest rated passer in the league every year of his career in Atlanta from "inside the pocket"...

Fact is, 95% of run first quarterbacks will never overcome that instinct... doesn't matter if they're black or white.


Andy Reids offense isn't designed for a "black" quarterback... it's a West Coast Offense that's designed to work with a pocket passer, but with mobility... not a scrambler.

What Reid has done is ADAPT his offense around Vick to take advantage of his rare athletic ability and running prowess.

However, if you can't pass the football with anticipation and accuracy from inside the pocket, you're not going to play quarterback for Andy Reid, doesn't matter if you're black or white..
Click to expand...

i tend to agree more with this post..and i just posted it doesn't matter if the qb is black or white.if you aren't getting it done,you are going to benched..i think any qb is capable of learning to be more effective and play to their strengths,but a lot of black qb's are groomed to play that way because the are so athletic.and like you say it may have taken vick 10 yrs,but had he been groomed to play that way earlier,then we would have seen it.its not really a fair comparison anyway considering there are what,only 6 starting black qb's in the nfl.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
dreday said:
so basically all im saying is, it doesn't matter what race you are, just don't suck.how many white QB's have been benched in their careers?steve mcnair is rolling in his grave right now...
Click to expand...


I don't think the quote "if given a chance to play in an offense set up more like philly's i would bet black QB's would be more dangerous" backs up the "it doesn't matter what race you are" comment..

I've been trying to get the point across in this thread from the beginning that the football doesn't know what race the quarterback is.. all the football knows is whether or not it's being thrown properly.


Steve McNair was a run first quarterback in college by INSTINCT, who developed very quickly into a pocket passer. But he still had the ability to scramble when he wanted to.

He overcame that instinct and learned how to control it. Scrambling ability isn't a weapon in the NFL for quarterbacks unless you learn to control it... you have to control that impulse and remain in the pocket going through your progressions.

McNair did that..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom