Dolphins spend the 4th-most in the NFL on defense

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by SCLSU Mud Dogs, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs UCF 13-0, Peach Bowl Champions Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Mar 2007
    Messages:
    8,782
    Likes Received:
    1,188
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yep, this defense spends the 4th most in the NFL on defense (current projection for 2018 is $94,728,563, behind only the Jags, Broncos, and Chiefs)

    Where does that $94M+ come from?

    Suh, 26.1M—Huge number for a player who is very good at what he does, but not as impactful as guys like Aaron Donald and Fletcher Cox.

    Reshad Jones, 11.575M—Large number for a really solid player, but again, not the most impactful safety in the league. Definitely one of Miami's best players, and when used properly, is worth most of that money.

    Andre Branch, 10M—This is the most puzzling contract on this team. Branch has 10 sacks in two years, so an average of 5 sacks per year. Essentially, Branch is making 2M per sack if he keeps that average up. Absolutely horrendous contract.

    Kiko Alonso, 9.6M—another puzzling contract. Miami could have had Kiko play on the tender for another season and had money to spend elsewhere, but instead, hugely bet that Kiko would DRASTICALLY improve on his play from 2016. As we saw this year, Kiko is a liability in coverage and often takes poor angles or guesses wrong. Not as bad as the Branch contract, but it's approaching F territory.

    Cameron Wake, 8.6M—Wake has been everything we've hoped he would be when we signed him from the CFL. He's had a great career in Miami and has enjoyed recognition as one of the most feared pass rushers in the league. However, Wake just turned 36 and has essentially only retained his usefulness in passing situations. Of the contracts listed, this is the only one so far that Miami can reasonably get out of. I'm sure Wake would continue playing in 2018, but Miami needs to think about the future and getting younger at one of the most important positions on the field.

    Lawrence Timmons, $8.225—We should consider this contract, like Kiko and Branch, robbery. Timmons absolutely had money as his number one priority when signing last season, and though he had some moments, his play throughout the season was inconsistent and toward the end, pretty poor. This is an obvious cut, especially after that weird AWOL incident.

    Total amount for these 6 players? A little over $74M.

    And for fun, below I'll list what I think each player should be worth.

    Suh—$17M
    Reshad Jones—$8.5M
    Andre Branch—$4M
    Kiko Alonso—$4M
    Cameron Wake—$6M
    Lawrence Timmons—5M
    Total—$44.5M

    So Miami, in my opinion, should be paying about 60% of what it currently pays, which at 44.5M, would somewhat match the performance on the field.

    All I have to say is yikes. Miami tried to get cute and show players in the locker room loyalty by offering multi-year, "more money than they're actually worth", contracts. And it's biting us in the ***. Hard.
     
    HeyHoLet'sGo, Snoop, Tailgun and 5 others like this.
  2. gofins60

    gofins60 A True Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 2011
    Messages:
    1,564
    Likes Received:
    135
    Trophy Points:
    63
    This will never end until Ross cleans house COMPLETELY and Tannenbaum is gone!
     
    miamiron, artdnj and Dolphins81 like this.
  3. Tannchise

    Tannchise A True Fan

    Joined:
    Oct 2012
    Messages:
    3,612
    Likes Received:
    415
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ross should be putting this front office on blast. Until this team removes these and other players and replaces with young, cheaper players, Miami will not have any sustainability at all. What's amazing is Suh, Branch, Alonso and Timmons were not home-grown, but when Miami does grow talent, they lose it. Great model!
     
  4. SeasonsMusic

    SeasonsMusic Pianist

    Joined:
    Sep 2006
    Messages:
    2,399
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Lol these contract are crazy.
     
  5. finmann

    finmann Pro Bowler

    Joined:
    Jan 2005
    Messages:
    3,922
    Likes Received:
    787
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It could be a lot worse if not for the amount of youth we have especially in our secondary. I will go along with Kiko, Branch, and Timmons for sure, we rolled the dice on these players and locked them up long term in hopes that these position would have been filled for a couple of years while we brought in youth behind them, the plan hasn't worked out perfectly because of injuries and poor play. Suh is an aberration and definitely not the norm, Dolphins wanted to make a big splash to remain relevant.
     
  6. Dolphins81

    Dolphins81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2017
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    187
    Trophy Points:
    43
    4th most spent and they are one of the worst in the league. This is a front office and coaching issue. It starts at the top. Everyone in the front office needs to be fired.
     
  7. artdnj

    artdnj Time is Now Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 2004
    Messages:
    3,486
    Likes Received:
    617
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Wow, mismanagement at its finest.
     
    Dolphins81 likes this.
  8. zach attach

    zach attach A True Fan Donator

    Joined:
    Oct 2004
    Messages:
    4,491
    Likes Received:
    266
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I agree with Timmons and Branch. If the coaches would put Kiko back in the middle he could return to his 2016 form. He is not a coverage guy.
     
    Ray R likes this.
  9. claytonduper

    claytonduper Starter

    Joined:
    May 2004
    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    114
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Yeah, but he isn't much of a thumper either. He is good for cleaning up tackles 7-8 yards down the field. I've always felt he looked undersized for a LB and he certainly plays that way. He would be a above average backup.
     
    joenhre likes this.
  10. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2008
    Messages:
    6,050
    Likes Received:
    618
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Only one I disagree on is Wake... Even if you want to give him a pass specialist oriented role, he's worth every penny of his contract. Hell only Joey Bosa has more sacks in the last 2 years.... Wake played all of his career as a Dolphins at a discount rate, he's one of the rare players to actually give his team hometown discounts... 8.6M is fair for Wake IMO and replacing his production will cost a whole lot more than 6M per if we let him go...
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  11. Ray R

    Ray R FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    May 2017
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    220
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I notice a lot of the posted arguments about the poor performance of the coaching and the front office in regards to contracts and personnel are tied too far the past. I recommend that we look at their performance from the time Adam Gase became the head coach. Otherwise we will be "cutting off our nose to spite our face", in regards to the front office and coaching staff.
     
  12. Stoobz

    Stoobz Scout Team Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    May 2005
    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    227
    Trophy Points:
    43
  13. Blackcreekbandit

    Blackcreekbandit Drunk Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Nov 2008
    Messages:
    1,209
    Likes Received:
    202
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I think Timmons is cut. Reports came out that branch played hurt most of the year i expect his play to improve next year. Suh is overpaid but i still support the signing. Say what you want about kiko but i think we paid him too much because our backs were against the wall. I think we overpaid based on our weak overall talent level at the lb position.
     
    Ray R likes this.
  14. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2008
    Messages:
    6,050
    Likes Received:
    618
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Our back wasnt really against the wall in Alonso's case. He was a RFA and didn't have any leverage, we easily could have paid him alot less and not be stuck with any additionnal years...
     
    Stoobz, joenhre, John813 and 3 others like this.
  15. MiamiDolfan85

    MiamiDolfan85 DA M.I.A IS WHERE I STAY

    Joined:
    Feb 2008
    Messages:
    4,651
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I agree...especially the last sentence. I been saying since the beginning of the Gase era, this team loves to point out personnel flaws but are silent when you bring up the decision making that actually goes into your personnel moves.

    Hypocritical to say the least.
     
    Blackcreekbandit likes this.
  16. jlfin

    jlfin old pro

    Joined:
    Mar 2005
    Messages:
    8,988
    Likes Received:
    310
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Jones has earned his contract and he is impactful. The Suh deal was crazy at the time and still is.
    Jury is still out on Branch as he played hurt most of the season, but the team obviously felt he was an ascending player and wanted to lock him up to avoid another Olivier Vernon situation. I can’t fault them for that and hindsight is 20/20. Wake has more than earned his money.
    Everything else I agree with. Timmons deal, though seems like a one yr rental, so no great loss after they cut him.
    So, all in all, not as bad as you make it out to be.
     
    Atila and Ray R like this.
  17. Blackcreekbandit

    Blackcreekbandit Drunk Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Nov 2008
    Messages:
    1,209
    Likes Received:
    202
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I disagree, I think kiko had plenty of leverage. If he doesn't sign with miami than what else realistically could Miami have done at the lb position? Roll with Allen hull or anthony?
     
    Ray R likes this.
  18. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 2004
    Messages:
    20,486
    Likes Received:
    1,529
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That would not have been the case had he not gone AWOL. He'd still be on the roster for sure due to the cap hit and the Dolphins would probably not be looking to draft a linebacker. Truth is the Dolphins have never built a solid linebacking corp. It's always been one solid-to-great player and a bunch of JAGS next to him. Whether they be free agent signings (usually on the downside of their careers like Seau) or some mid-to-late round draft pick that was good enough to start but not an impact player. Think about it...who played with Zach Thomas? How many of them can you name? Who came in after Zach?
     
    miamiron likes this.
  19. MikeO

    MikeO Premium Member Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Jul 2004
    Messages:
    15,245
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Miami could lose Branch, Alonso, Timmons and not miss a beat. They could replace those guys and get equal production at about 1/10th the cost.

    Unfortunately we are stuck with Branch and Alonso for 1 more year as their contracts make them un-cutable right now. Timmons is gone now thank god
     
    Danny likes this.
  20. John813

    John813 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2015
    Messages:
    491
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Doubtful Kiko would of held out last season, especially since we gave him a 1st round tender money.
    If he would of played hardball, we then could of reduced that 1st round tender $ to 110% of his last year rookie pay in June.

    We owned his rights for 17-18. Either sign the tender or sit out and still be a RFA for this offseason.
    We jumped the gun signing him to a big extension.
     
    joenhre, Atila and miamiron like this.
  21. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase

    Joined:
    Nov 2008
    Messages:
    15,851
    Likes Received:
    1,390
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yup.

    Miami is run by a GM that has had cap problems in the past, he hasn’t learned yet and now Miami is paying bad players a lot of money.

    Only Jones and Suh should be highly paid on our defense atm, and even Jones is questionable.
     
  22. mmikel30

    mmikel30 Starter

    Joined:
    Oct 2006
    Messages:
    2,198
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Everyone of those players have seen their better days. But we are paying them for their better days....we just need to blow it up start fresh.
     
    artdnj likes this.
  23. MikeO

    MikeO Premium Member Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Jul 2004
    Messages:
    15,245
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    48
    This is Chris Grier's first time being an NFL GM
     
    Ray R likes this.
  24. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 2003
    Messages:
    17,822
    Likes Received:
    2,017
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Great write up and I agree with everything on it bro. T-dumb and company are driving this team into the ground with bad deal after bad deal and it has to change now!!

    Ozzy rules!!
     
    miamiron likes this.
  25. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2008
    Messages:
    6,050
    Likes Received:
    618
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Do you think Kiko would have sit the year out? His options would have been to sign or hold out... No leverage at all...
     
    joenhre likes this.
  26. gofins60

    gofins60 A True Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 2011
    Messages:
    1,564
    Likes Received:
    135
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I assume you're talking about Tannenbaum. He should have been fired, but Ross promoted him to VP of Football Operations. So many fans think that Ross is a good owner because he opens his wallet. Wrong! His personnel decisions are killing this team; he keeps hiring the wrong people, and then won't fire them until after the damage is done. Ross needs to sell the team.
     
    emoticon and Dolphins81 like this.
  27. Blackcreekbandit

    Blackcreekbandit Drunk Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Nov 2008
    Messages:
    1,209
    Likes Received:
    202
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Has a player ever sat out a year over money?
    And if he was prepared to sit out the year then what does Miami do?
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  28. Blake the great

    Blake the great A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jan 2011
    Messages:
    1,181
    Likes Received:
    54
    Trophy Points:
    48
    ....and the defense still sucks.

    I wonder where we rank in regards to top picks used for the O-line in the last few years. Probably in the top 5 and the O line still sucks....geesh
     
  29. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs UCF 13-0, Peach Bowl Champions Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Mar 2007
    Messages:
    8,782
    Likes Received:
    1,188
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Kiko was in no position to make demands. It was purely a good PR move on Miami's part. Kiko has Cuban roots. It also showed other players in the locker room that if they did what was asked, they could get a long-term deal too. Problem is, like stated above, Kiko is average at just about everything and he's getting paid like a top-10 linebacker. I believe Kiko makes the 10th-most in the league for his position (traditional linebacker).
     
    joenhre, Atila, NBP81 and 1 other person like this.
  30. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs UCF 13-0, Peach Bowl Champions Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Mar 2007
    Messages:
    8,782
    Likes Received:
    1,188
    Trophy Points:
    113
    IMO the problem isn't the players selected. Tunsil should come into his own. James has been solid. Pouncey, despite injuries, has generally played well (maybe not THAT great as of late). It's the guys that Miami fills the other positions with.

    Jermon Bushrod, awful. Dallas Thomas, awful. Billy Turner, awful. Anthony Steen, backup. Ted Larsen, slightly below average.

    If Miami retains James, the offensive line of Tunsil-FA/pick-Pouncey-Davis-James really isn't too bad. The problem lies with the backup for Pouncey or the reserves that may have to play due to injury.
     
    Ray R likes this.
  31. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs UCF 13-0, Peach Bowl Champions Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Mar 2007
    Messages:
    8,782
    Likes Received:
    1,188
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Due to the free agent structure in place, Miami's "home grown talent" was often priced way out of Miami's range well before Miami could reasonably offer a long-term contract.

    I imagine you're specifically referring to Lamar Miller and Olivier Vernon. Vernon's contract was RIDICULOUSLY high, and Miller took a little less money to go play for the Texans.

    And in Landry's case, he's likely priced himself out of contention with us.

    We should have probably traded Jarvis for a 2nd round pick at the deadline, but fans around here would have had an absolute meltdown.
     
  32. Blackcreekbandit

    Blackcreekbandit Drunk Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Nov 2008
    Messages:
    1,209
    Likes Received:
    202
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Those are good points I didn't take into consideration, i didn't realize he was the 10th highest paid lb and I will certainly agree that kiko is definitely not a top 10 lb talent wise. Without doing the research i wonder how much of a wage gap there is from being the 10th highest to the 20th top paid
     
    SCLSU Mud Dogs and Ray R like this.
  33. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott A True Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 2017
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    1,087
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not a single one of those players are worth anything close to their price tag aside from Jones. Suh is understandable though.

    Kiko and Branch are the type of players who should be bubble guys going into camp. Those deals are absolutely embarrassing to look at.
     
  34. mrhankey81701

    mrhankey81701 A True Fan

    Joined:
    Apr 2010
    Messages:
    5,137
    Likes Received:
    712
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Branch situation really annoyed me as we turned a great signing into an awful one. We signed him originally to a one year low money deal and he outperformed it. Instead of patting ourselves on the back and taking the victory we give him a huge money deal he will never live up to.
     
    BobDole likes this.
  35. Adam Strange

    Adam Strange Question Authority Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 2008
    Messages:
    1,170
    Likes Received:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The worst defense money can buy indeed.
     
    Hargitt01 and superphin like this.
  36. dirkey

    dirkey FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 2017
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    154
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Interesting. Well, regarding the main money players above:

    Suh - He's been great. But has he been worth what he's been paid? Nope, not in my opinion. Down to coaching / scheme? Maybe. I think it's too much money for a DT no matter what.
    Jones - Injured most of last year. Decent this year. Any major improvements under Gase? I'd say no. In fact, I feel like there have been less impact plays from him to be honest, though I haven't looked up the stats to back that up, so I might be completely wrong! Just my feeling.
    Branch - Good last year. Then they over pay him. That was all Gase / Tannebaum. Completely retarded contract.
    Alonso - See above, but they had him for cheap. And not only that, he was decent hte first year, so they move his position? Nuts decision making.
    Wake - I love the guy, so leave him at it, great contract for a great player.
    Timmons - Horrific decision to bring this guy on board. Declining player. Contract given to him was all this FO. Lucky he went AWOL so we can cut for nothing now, otherwise we'd be stuck with him.

    The D under Gase has been poor. The coaching has been bad in my opinion.
     
  37. Chuck-182

    Chuck-182 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2010
    Messages:
    819
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Spent the 4th most and still have one of the worst defenses in the league. Yep, sounds like the Dolphins.:wall
     
  38. CedarPhin

    CedarPhin King of the Winter Carnival Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 2008
    Messages:
    22,390
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Fix the LBs. Do something there. Please for the love of all that is whatever.
     
  39. gregorygrant83

    gregorygrant83 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 2009
    Messages:
    5,153
    Likes Received:
    742
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I count several players with more than Wake's 22 sacks in 2016 and 2017, including names like Calais Campbell, Von Miller, Ryan Kerrigan and Chandler Jones.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
    NBP81 likes this.
  40. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2008
    Messages:
    6,050
    Likes Received:
    618
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You're right, for some reason PFR's season finder didn't bring back those guys when I checked DE and OLB, but they are there when I go with the broader DL and LB... Thanks for the heads up.

    So turns out he's 6th in sacks for the last 2 years, still a bargain at 8.6M though...
     
    Atila likes this.

Share This Page