Draft Discussion (Midway Point)

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by SF Dolphin Fan, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    Looking at the AFC East, I honestly think Buffalo and the New York Jets are a bit further along than Miami. That is hard to admit, but I don't think either is head and shoulders above the Dolphins. The return of Ryan Tannehill certainly could be huge for Miami next season.

    Point is, this will be a critical draft for the Dolphins to not only make up ground on New England, but to overtake the other division rivals. Gase must get the offensive ship headed the right way and fast.

    First the needs in my order.

    1. Offensive Guard/Interior Lineman --- this is just such an obvious weakness and I certainly expect the team will not have Pouncey back. May need two interior (starting caliber) linemen. Maybe one in free agency and one in the draft.
    2. Running Back --- Gase might be able to get by with a complement to Drake, but this is a good running back draft.
    3. Tight End -- Thomas had his best game against the Raiders, but he hasn't looked good most of the season. In particular, he seems to have lost a step or two.
    4. Linebacker --- Timmons has been a standout, but will Miami keep him? Seems likely, but even so he's on a short-term contract. Can't wait to get McMillan back.
    5. Corner --- This is an interesting one. I'm a bit on the fence with Howard. Seen some good and bad with him. Also, a slot corner upgrade would be nice.
    6. Pass Rusher --- Wake is 35, Suh is on the wrong side of 30. I put pass rusher because it could be a defense end, a defensive tackle or even a linebacker.
    7. Wide Receiver --- The Landry contract will be resolved one way or the other. If he isn't on the team you can move wide receiver up this list. I have some concerns about Parker staying healthy. His talent is obvious.
    8. Tackle --- Tunsil's season has been disappointing and James could be a free agent. Personally, I think the team keeps James and hopefully Tunsil can reach his immense potential.

    Some other points. The best players on defense are all guys who will need to be replaced soon. The Dolphins already started that by drafting Harris. He may be the guy to eventually take over for Wake. Godshaux is playing well, Phillips looks a little better as well. But another talented DT would be nice with Suh's contract up in a few years. A young safety to groom behind Jones would be nice.

    And then the question.....can Miami take the best defensive player available in round 1 and still fill all their needs on offense? I love how far the defense has come in one offseason and would love to see the Dolphins continue to build that unit up. Is that a realistic possibility? I know Miami doesn't currently have a lot to spend in free agency. Of course that can always change.
     
  2. RalphX19X

    RalphX19X MVP

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    Billy Price might remind Tannenbaum of a former Ohio State linemen he drafted. One of his best picks ever.
     
  3. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    Agree on Price. Hoping he's there for Miami in R2. Really would be a perfect fit.
     
  4. RalphX19X

    RalphX19X MVP

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    Yea. And I think Tannenbaum will get a happy feeling remembering the time he drafted Nick Mangold. Lol
     
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  5. Lovethefish

    Lovethefish Well-Known Member

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    This team has to build the OL. First and foremost.
    We could use help at every level of the defense.
    Wake, Pouncey and James are cap casualties.
    We are stuck with alonso and Branch for 1 more season....
     
  6. Jerrysanders

    Jerrysanders A True Fan

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    Price would definitely upgrade this OL.
     
  7. finfan41

    finfan41 Rookie Finheaven VIP

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    If we are top 7 I am looking at a qb, de, or safety or trading down to a qb hungry team, that’s to high for a guard unless I am positive it’s the second coming of John Hannah
     
  8. jim1

    jim1 Pro Bowler

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    I think that Guard Quenton Nelson from Notre Dame is the best OL in the country and I would gladly draft him at #7. Every year we have a problem with the OL, every year we fail to fix it, every year it's a major issue. I would focus this draft on OL, CB, LB and TE, try to fix those problem areas as per both starters and backups.

    Dude is a beast:

     
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  9. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I think Connor Williams is the best OL in the country by a healthy margin, and he may be best suited for OG. Young too. If Miami is picking in or near the top 10, they could have a shot at him. Otherwise, some nice OL talent should spill into the 2nd RD. I view Nelson as more of a 1st/2nd guy - not as good as F. Lamp from the 2017 Draft.

    In the 1st, Guice is the RB that interests me, but ideally, you bypass that risk and get a guy like J. Kelly or R. Penny in the 3rd or 4th. K. Johnson and N. Chubb are also nice options.

    This TE class is a pile of trash relative to the 2017 Draft, so I wouldn't force it, but I'd look up A. Breneman in the 3rd or 4th. As usual, Miami failed to assess the strengths of that class. Shameful.

    R. Smith and M. Jefferson are potential 1st RD picks and really good players. But, they'll have to wow from here on out to warrant a pick near the top 10 (Shazier was selected 15th overall for reference). Tremaine Edmunds is a guy to look up later, and Nwosu will get a chance to play 4-3 OLB in Mobile, where I expect him to play well. At SLB, a guy like Brian Womac II from Rice is also really interesting. He's relentless, and he makes a ton if plays in the backfield.

    I'd consider Josh Jackson and Minkah Fitzpatrick early in the 1st (tests pending), and after them, you have guys like Juan Thornhill, Carlton Davis, and Holton Hill - as well as Kameron Kelly (very underrated CB out of SDSU). Could be a steal, but his stock will likely rise. Also, DJ Reed is a stud Slot CB. Darius Phillips is also an excellent Slot option and a dynamic return man.

    Chubb, Ferrell, and Sweat look like the 1st RD pass-rush options at this point. Love Holland and Josh Allen, but they're more 3-4 OLB. Justin Lawler looks good and should be there on Day 2 or 3.
     
  10. jim1

    jim1 Pro Bowler

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    Connor Williams is excellent, what really jumps out at me are his feet, nimble and powerful LT. I prefer Nelson for the sheer power, both block on the 2nd level very well, I would take either in the 1st round. We obviously need Guards, nothing new there. I don't see RT Ja'Wuan James being worth $9 million given his somewhat erratic play and his frequent injury history, just not worth it. If OL is important enough to sink a team when it's not right, then OL are worth high draft picks including first rounders, it's that simple imo.

    As to TE, with the picks we coughed up in that lousy Carroo trade we could have had C Pat Elfein and TE Eric Saubert. That would have helped. If we could get solid OL in rounds 1-2, CB Holton Hill in the 3rd, QB Josh Allen in the 4th and TE Dallas Goedert or Hayden Hurst in the 5th round I'd be happy with that.
     
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  11. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I'm not in favor of drafting OL in the first.

    Ted Larsen looks like he's capable of being an adequate pass blocker, and that's fine for our LG. He's not good, but he's not a dumpster fire, and that's all I ask at this point. The bigger concern right now is what to do at C and RG. Asiata has not even been active yet, so how can we pencil him in as the starting RG with any confidence? That concerns me a lot. We also need to dump Pouncey's salary and find a replacement, so you have to think about finding a center in the draft.

    I think our draft needs to be defense heavy again. We need linebackers who can cover, defensive ends who can replace aging Hayes and Wake, and to continue looking for upgrades at CB. I also think that we need a free safety, but the dopes who run Miami's defense apparently think having two strong safeties back there is just brilliant and nothing can possibly go wrong. So we know they won't be looking at that position.

    This discussion is kind of depressing for me for the simple fact that I know the guys who run our draft room are going to continue making head-scratchingly dumb decisions. I fully expect us to go into 2018 with Mike Pouncey penciled in as the starting center and nobody having been drafted to replace him.
     
  12. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    As much as the team needs offensive linemen, I'd love for Miami to get a defensive gem in the first round and then work on the oline. Josh Jackson is very interesting as a corner who makes a lot of big plays. Miami needs more speed at linebacker (Smith or Jefferson could fill that pretty nicely).

    Plus, the defensive line needs another dominant guy to take some pressure off Suh. Wilkins from Clemson could be an interesting player and the Dolphins may pick high enough to be in that range.
     
  13. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    I know what you mean. I think Pouncey will probably stay as well and Miami will probably go dumpster diving to find some offensive lineman. I hope the team plays Asiata at least in the final four games maybe sooner. The team needs to know what they have in him.

    A player like Harrison on Alabama would be pretty nice, but I seriously doubt Miami drafts a safety early. But I do agree the Dolphins need a lot on defense. The best players on D are the vets in Suh, Wake and Jones. Younger and more athletic players are needed.
     
  14. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I think the way to approach a given draft is to examine the strengths and weaknesses relative to most years. 2017 was outstanding for DE/pass rusher, TE, S, and it was really good for CB. It was a weak draft overall for OL.

    This year, it looks like OL will be a strength, S and CB will again be good, but DE/pass rusher looks - at this point - relatively weak. There can still be values (Ogbah should have been a top-15 pick in 2016, which was also a relatively poor draft for pass rushers), but it's less likely.

    If you can do this, you have a better chance of avoiding the problem of talent vs need. If Connor Williams falls to Miami, that'd be tough to pass up, but it's early, and in this class, finding a stud OL in the 2nd and/or 3rd is more likely than normal. That'd be ideal.
     
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  15. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    Well said. I really wanted one of those top safeties last year. I see this year as a really good DT draft as well. Agree?

    That's one reason I'd look there early. I like Godchaux, but if Miami can get a difference maker there it would make things so much harder for opposing offenses. Plus, you need to prepare for when Suh is gone. I think that could happen after 2018.

    Looks like a really good group of running backs as well, but I'd look there in the middle rounds.
     
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  16. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Thank you. It's decent DT class, but I wouldn't say it's good relative to recent years. I like Hurst and Harrison Phillips (if he declares) as potential 1st RD picks; Hurst is probably a lock. I've been disappointed by Trenton Thompson and Christian Wilkins. They're both very talented, but it doesn't show up as often as it should. Along with them, I like Nnadi in the 2nd/3rd range. Beckner Jr. is somewhat similar to Thompson and Wilkins; he's young and talented, but he's not put it together on a consistent basis.

    I like this RB group a lot. It's as strong at the top as any recent class, and I think it's a little deeper than recent years - depending on who declares, of course.
     
  17. Lovethefish

    Lovethefish Well-Known Member

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    Our needs:
    Offense: OG, C, RT
    IMO Pouncey is done and James not worth 9 Mill.
    Tunsil LT, Jesse Davis? Eric Smith ?
    Sign Norwell Carolina- draft OG RD2

    Defense: DE, LB, CB
    Wake is strictly 3rd down pass rusher.
    We need dynamic DE
    LB who can cover and run: Raekwon?
    CB shutdown type
    Consider Jackson draft/ or signing Trumaine Johnson
     
  18. Markcalius

    Markcalius Druggist Finheaven VIP

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    Would love to continue the LB makeover with Malik Jefferson. Guy is like a missile.
     
  19. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    If Malik Jefferson was just a little more instinctive he'd be my top linebacker by a more significant margin than he is. Kid can play, but I feel like he's really going to have to be a film junkie at the next level in order to reach his potential be a truly great linebacker.

    When he makes a decision and decides to go...he's a missile. Problem is, he doesn't always diagnose what's happening in front of him fast enough and spends a second or two in limbo a little too often.

    Just inconsistent from game to game.

    Some games those weaknesses are nowhere to be found and he's just playing at a different speed than anybody else on the field...versus USC for example. Other games against lesser competition the concerns show up more and he fails to dominate the way he's capable of.

    Frustrating talent. But if you need a linebacker, I think you have to take him anywhere after the first 12-14 picks if you're satisfied he's going to put in a little extra after you meet and talk with him.



    EDIT: And Connor Williams looked terrible tonight. He was on the ground all night, gave up some pressure on the edge and had 2 big holding calls and a false start.

    Making his way back from injury, but even before I've just never been as sold on him as everybody else. I just don't see it with him. I've been trying to replace him at the top of my underclassman tackle list all season.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
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  20. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Perfect summary of Jefferson. I'd just add that - whether through extra preparation, growth, or just feeling better outside - he looks much more instinctive than he did in 2016. I had an eye on him for his athleticism, but he had 42 solo tackles in 11 games last year, and he has 71 through 11 games this year. Watching his 2017 tape, I get frustrated when he doesn't see it and get it; in 2016, I was surprised when he did. So, I think that's encouraging, but I agree with your point. If you like him in the top 20, you want some assurance that this projection continues (that he'll put in the work in the film room).

    I didn't see last night's game, but my main concerns with Williams at OT are length and speed/quickness. I'm surprised to hear that he was on the ground a lot, because strength and balance are two areas where I felt he set himself apart from the group. In terms of a pure OT, Martinas Rankin is the best that I've watched, but Williams looks like he can develop into a dominant OG, and he's a couple years younger.

    Speaking of OT, if Brown can get down to the 320s or even low 330s, he'd be a lot easier to like. He has great feet for his size, and his frame is amazing, but he just can't chase around NFL DE's and OLB's at that size.
     
  21. Blake the great

    Blake the great A True Fan

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    And every other year we use a high draft pick on the O-line and it has never worked out. No wonder we can never draft perennial pro bowlers or all pro talent, because we always reach in the draft for need. Let's fix the O-line in FA and draft a playmaker in the first and 2nd round, how does that Sounds?
     
  22. jim1

    jim1 Pro Bowler

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    Questionable. Nelson is a stud and not a reach for need imo, rather an uber quality player at a need position. We have WR and RBs, I'd rather fix the OL and the multi year/ decade track record of the Dolphins FO is that they struggle mightily in drafting OL after the 1st round and selecting them in FA. If they can pick up at least one quality OL in FA, that's fine with me. We need OT, OG and C, I don't think that we're keeping James for $9 mil a year. Personally I would have drafted Forrest lamp last year in the 1st and taken Pat Elfein and Eric Saubert if it weren't for the daft Carroo trade that robbed us of draft picks. That would have solved a lot of problems, Lamp's injury notwithstanding. If Tannenbaum was behind that trade, considering the previous Jordan Phillips debacle, he should have been fired for it.
     

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