Fangio Vs. Weaver/McDaniel - A Referendum On Cam Smith And The Defense Overall

[djphinfan]

If Fangio actually felt that way and went to McDaniel & Grier declaring he'd had a change of heart and really didn't want to spend 2023 in Miami, the Dolphins would've immediately let him walk.

It would've been in the best interest of both parties for the deal to have been dissolved right then and there if Fangio planned to (or the Dolphins thought he would) purposefully lay down and give a half-hearted effort. Moreover, that doesn't correlate with what we know people say about Vic Fangio and his character.

The Dolphins very clearly wanted Fangio to stay (even if just for a single year) and went about convincing him to stick around for 2023, most likely to maximize their potential for a SB run.

The idea that Fangio "wasted Miami's time" doesn't make any sense at all. If he didn't want to be in Miami he could've easily just sat the year out entirely as many coaches have done before. He stuck around in Miami to help the Dolphins. And the thanks he gets for that are a few bitter fans labeling him a traitor.

It was most likely the Dolphins begging him believing they could make a run and that the 12 months he was aboard would be sufficient for them to scout out the DC landscape for a long-term replacement.


Blaming every coach/player who leaves Miami only to pretend the Miami Dolphins are victims is a binary that has never mapped onto reality. IMHO, it's entirely unbecoming of fans to do that.

omgoodness, that piece of crap was so easy to see I’m really surprised by your opinion on the topic

 

[phinsforlife]

Fangio didn’t want to be here. He accepted the job before realizing the Philadelphia job would come available and spent every minute since then regretting his decision. Cam Smith was the victim of a grumpy, impatient old man who was not invested in this team or this job and who had 0.0% interest in breaking in an over-aggressive rookie cornerback.

Smith is probably going to be very good this year, and Fangio is probably going to be much more patient with the rookies in Philly.

I expect our defense to be better than last year.

Who gives a $hit about VF?

Good riddmith?

Who gives a $hit about VF?

Good riddanc

You aren't wrong in that some fans wear aqua an orange glasses. At least I can understand that in an emotional sense.

On the other hand, the same concocting of self serving narratives apply to the negative Nellie's who bitch about everything the organization does.

That, I do n

I think Mitchell and Dejean and far better prospects than Cam Smith was.

Parcells quote about "if they don't bite as pups" comes to mind.

I'm hoping he sees the field next year and shows a better career trajectory than the Noah Igbonogonee track he's on. I'm worried.

so i agree the eagles cb's are probably better prospects than cam smith - at least the first one taken, the 2nd one taken was give or take in the same proximity as cam, so maybe the better compare. who do you think was the better prospect, the first cb the eagles drafted, or chop, both players went back to back?

 

[MrChadRico]

so i agree the eagles cb's are probably better prospects than cam smith - at least the first one taken, the 2nd one taken was give or take in the same proximity as cam, so maybe the better compare. who do you think was the better prospect, the first cb the eagles drafted, or chop, both players went back to back?

No comment

 

[NY8123]

I just don't believe the MD are naive.

Nor do I believe that VF or the MD have time to waste.

OTOH, there is a ton of evidence to show fans are homers and will concoct self-serving narratives.

And that's the truth of the matter. It doesn't matter what we debate about or other posters debate about, the truth of the matter unless you are actually in the Dolphins organization will only be debatable as most of us will never truly "know" the actual circumstances.

I trust half the beat reporters less than most of the posters here to be honest. Most of the **** they write about is conjecture at best and speculation en mass. Sometimes I think when an article cites "sources" they should just link the FinHeaven thread they got the info from.

 

[Ray R]

No comment

An excellent value judgement. - LOL

 

[phinsforlife]

No comment

Well I take this to mean you believe the Eagles CB is the better prospect. No idea what is the big deal about saying so, drafts are meant to be 2nd guessed, they are imperfect. I have said this from the second the draft happened (and also said the draft got alot better after round 2). You could take the first CB off the board (your choice of any of the 3 guys highest rated) or the 4th edge.

Despite the comments from Grier about always going BPA, I think they ended up drafting for perceived need. I do not think Chop was the BPA. Teams and GMs and coaches lie all of the time. Some of it I find acceptable. Some I find annoying. For example, when a team drafts a player high, they always say "we got the guy we wanted all along." Nobody ever says "well the guys we wanted came off the board so this is the best we could do." I can live with that. Especially because it is unfair to the player you drafted, who is just a kid.

Also I am not optimistic Cam Smith will work out. That is one more reason I would have taken the CB. We need a CB. Despite the hate for Fangio, a fair bit of which I personally find over the top, I believe Fangio was a very experienced and very good DC. Cam Smith couldn't even get on the field late in the season over Ethan Bonner, who is someone I had never even heard of. So I am skeptical. Hopefully I am wrong.

Having said all of that, it is possible that the Dolphins really did think Chop, as the 4th edge off the board, with limited college production, and a developmental player, still in their mind could have been the BPA. I doubt it, but it is possible.

You can judge a draft 2 ways. How the players they drafted do, and how they players they passed on do. So I guess Barton would have been the guy if they went OL, will be interesting to see how he does. Then same for the two CBs that came off the board immediately after we took Chop.

If my suspicion is right, the injuries to Chubb and Phillips were particularly detrimental. Not only will we miss them on the field, but we then had to use the first round pick on a player to fill a need that was created by their injuries. What if that Philly CB, or Barton turn out to be pro-bowlers, and Chop is just meh? If Chubb and Phillips werent both injured, we would have had one of the other players in the draft. Of course, this is all conjecture, I am just offering my best guess. It is impossible to know what the Dolphins internal view really was.

 

[tay0365]

 

[MrChadRico]

Well I take this to mean you believe the Eagles CB is the better prospect. No idea what is the big deal about saying so, drafts are meant to be 2nd guessed, they are imperfect. I have said this from the second the draft happened (and also said the draft got alot better after round 2). You could take the first CB off the board (your choice of any of the 3 guys highest rated) or the 4th edge.

Despite the comments from Grier about always going BPA, I think they ended up drafting for perceived need. I do not think Chop was the BPA. Teams and GMs and coaches lie all of the time. Some of it I find acceptable. Some I find annoying. For example, when a team drafts a player high, they always say "we got the guy we wanted all along." Nobody ever says "well the guys we wanted came off the board so this is the best we could do." I can live with that. Especially because it is unfair to the player you drafted, who is just a kid.

Also I am not optimistic Cam Smith will work out. That is one more reason I would have taken the CB. We need a CB. Despite the hate for Fangio, a fair bit of which I personally find over the top, I believe Fangio was a very experienced and very good DC. Cam Smith couldn't even get on the field late in the season over Ethan Bonner, who is someone I had never even heard of. So I am skeptical. Hopefully I am wrong.

Having said all of that, it is possible that the Dolphins really did think Chop, as the 4th edge off the board, with limited college production, and a developmental player, still in their mind could have been the BPA. I doubt it, but it is possible.

You can judge a draft 2 ways. How the players they drafted do, and how they players they passed on do. So I guess Barton would have been the guy if they went OL, will be interesting to see how he does. Then same for the two CBs that came off the board immediately after we took Chop.

If my suspicion is right, the injuries to Chubb and Phillips were particularly detrimental. Not only will we miss them on the field, but we then had to use the first round pick on a player to fill a need that was created by their injuries. What if that Philly CB, or Barton turn out to be pro-bowlers, and Chop is just meh? If Chubb and Phillips werent both injured, we would have had one of the other players in the draft. Of course, this is all conjecture, I am just offering my best guess. It is impossible to know what the Dolphins internal view really was.

Your heading down a rabbit hole, I don't think I wanna follow.

Mitchell had a higher grade for me than Chop, I'll be honest.

Greir was up against it, like you said we needed edge rushers but let's not forget the multiple wasted draft picks used on Noah and Cam Smith. Corner was probably the one postion Grier didn't want to use another high pick on. I could be wrong but my guess, is that he's hoping Cam Smith will take a big step forward.

So in closing, Grier did "Draft for need" but Chop isn't a bad pick. I had him at around the 25th best player due to just how freakishly athletic he is. Before the draft he reminded me of a mini Aaron Daronld, like a short stocky quick little ****.

 

[Phinadict]

I think Cam Smith is a detrimentally aggressive corner that got caught out of position a lot in college that happened to be boys with the general manager's son.
That has nothing to do with Vic Fangio.

Didn't Cam Smith look great in the preseason and practices with other teams? Or am I remembering that wrong...

 

['Deep]

In Fangio's defense, yes, he never seemed like a good fit and that he never wanted to be in Miami, but give me any DC that could have met expectations with Phillips, Chubb, Baker, Van Ginkel out for the stretch run. We lost close games, but the O still sh*t the bed late in the year. I do like the Weaver hiring.

 

[Fred Bear]

Weaver can do no worse .

 

[Golphindolphin]

Your heading down a rabbit hole, I don't think I wanna follow.

Mitchell had a higher grade for me than Chop, I'll be honest.

Greir was up against it, like you said we needed edge rushers but let's not forget the multiple wasted draft picks used on Noah and Cam Smith. Corner was probably the one postion Grier didn't want to use another high pick on. I could be wrong but my guess, is that he's hoping Cam Smith will take a big step forward.

So in closing, Grier did "Draft for need" but Chop isn't a bad pick. I had him at around the 25th best player due to just how freakishly athletic he is. Before the draft he reminded me of a mini Aaron Daronld, like a short stocky quick little ****.

Do us all a favor and walk right up to that rabbit hole , make sure he's in there, and then barricade that thing like it's Fort Knox. Thank you.

 

[EasyRider]

Fangio didn’t want to be here. He accepted the job before realizing the Philadelphia job would come available and spent every minute since then regretting his decision. Cam Smith was the victim of a grumpy, impatient old man who was not invested in this team or this job and who had 0.0% interest in breaking in an over-aggressive rookie cornerback.

Smith is probably going to be very good this year, and Fangio is probably going to be much more patient with the rookies in Philly.

I expect our defense to be better than last year.

Couldn’t have said it better
He mailed it in. What? He’s gonna break his ass trying to season a rookie when he has veterans on the team while knowing in his own mind he was leaving?
Failed hire from the start

 

[djphinfan]

Didn't Cam Smith look great in the preseason and practices with other teams? Or am I remembering that wrong...

yes. For two weeks strait

The reason why I questioned the hiring the whole time was because it was obvious he wasn’t here for the right reasons,.there were signs everywhere that I was trying to tell people, turned out he stole money from our organization.

Dolphins should file a suit :)

 

[zullo1]

If you recall there was a preseason game where Cam bit on a move and the receiver blew by him. Ever since that point, Fangio put him in the dog-house and he never got out. I think Fangio made a big mistake. That was a teaching moment and you should have thrown him right back out there. Sometimes all it takes is a coach to believe in you. (See how McD resurrected Tua after Flores crushed him). I get it that may be a simplification, but I think it holds some water. Let's hope Cam isnt another wasted pick and he can find a role in Weaver's D.