Is Belichick Best Coach Ever?

[royalshank]

Didn't Shula reach SBs w/ 4 different QBs? meanwhile BB was a total failure as HC w/o Brady.

this part of the argument is what impresses me most about what Shula was able to do. Yes most of his QBs were good but what he did w Woodley over 3 years (Woodley has the highest win % of all fins QBs!) and Scott Mitchell and Steve DeBerg off of the retirement couch was mind boggling. He was able to win w anyone behind center. That he didn't win the SB w Marino is probably the only reason there is doubt as to his place on the greatest list. That said, it was a weird time in the NFL. I can't explain the "why" but no AFC team was going to beat the smash mouth NFC teams for 15 straight years. We could have went to the SB 10 times w Marino and likely would have lost them all. Its just a shame that the class of '83 didn't get more rings. Even Elway - he was better when he was losing SBs than when the balance of power finally shifted perhaps thanks to FA or something - but he went out a two time champ thanks to a running game and D. He was still good but no longer dominant.

 

[royalshank]

That is literally all Shula's fault. Furthermore, The NFC powerhouses during the era had no problem maintaining their status while drafting deeper in the draft. Hell the Bills made 4 super bowls drafting second to last 4 straight years. Anymore excuses?

you are really making an argument for criticizing Shula the GM, not the coach. Two different animals. And by the way, the Bills got a lot of those great players w early draft picks when they stunk - not when they were going to SBs but that's besides the point.

 

[ghost_fish]

Belichick is a football genius. There's no doubt about it. It's unfortunate that he has to be a coach in our division.

 

[Good_Dylan]

Welp this is where we're at after 5 games, arguing a current rival HOF coach who's still dominating vs a previous Dolphin HOF coach who retired over 20 years go. Yay LOLphins.

Its Stockholm Syndrome...He has beaten the Miami fan-base down so bad they are now transformed into his best cheerleaders. Heck I bet he would not get this many shout-outs in a NE forum
I'm defiant...I think he is a cheater who just happens to work for the current Alpha Owner in the league and enjoys all the advantages afforded to him through that fact.

When asked about Belicheat my only response is "He Sucks"

 

[kingfin23]

I don't respect cheaters. That's like asking me is the best card player in the world the best when he deals from the bottom of the deck

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

I respect the heck out of Gil Brandt, his knowledge about the game is paralleled by only a small and rare few, BUT . . . I agree with him 100%. :D

All five have contributed so much to the game, though I have yet to read, study, or listen to, anyone who did it better than Shula and Belichick.

I've never studied Lombardi but what little I have read up on him was that he was one of the first greats and that in itself is a substantial accomplishment. Walsh was a first favorite of mine to study. I still love to go though his notes and watch his clinics, but the one subject that holds him back is longevity. Landry had the longevity and holds an NFL record of 20 consecutive winning seasons, which is 5 more than his closest rival.

That leaves Shula and Belichick.

Shula is the literal undefeated champion when it comes down to winning possessing the only undefeated season in NFL history and is obviously known for his record 347 wins. His contributions also extend far beyond the field and transformed the game in many ways with his seat on the competition committee. Shula is truly great.

Belichick is the unapproachable best. To do what he has done, in terms of running an incredibly successful team from a GM and HC perspective, is for a lack of better words - mesmerizing and spectacular; especially in this day and age designed for parity. Belichick is an unrivaled strategist and nothing short of a genius in how consistently far ahead of the game he remains compared to other past and modern day coaches. Every so often he'll share brilliant pieces of information which he reveals in his press conferences; those are a gem. Belichick is by far my favorite head coach to read about and study. Belichick is the best coach in NFL history. It's a shame if you can't acknowledge that, respect him, and are missing out on a chance to witness the very best.

Taking off my aqua and orange glass, you've got to give Belichick a ton of credit. His teams win 12 games a year, always win the division, have won four super bowls in six appearances and are always prepared.

One thing I think Belichick does better than perhaps any coach is take away a teams best player through game planning. Doesn't always approach it that way, but when he does it almost always succeeds.

Certainly, have to factor in the cheating allegations but I don't know how much of an affect that has.

I do think he's sticking around for another super bowl win. If that happens Belichick will have five something no other coach has ever done.

 

[Rick Cartman]

you are really making an argument for criticizing Shula the GM, not the coach. Two different animals. And by the way, the Bills got a lot of those great players w early draft picks when they stunk - not when they were going to SBs but that's besides the point.

So let me understand this, Don Shula the GM is the excuse for the colossal failures of Don Shula the coach? Finkle is Einhorn and Einhorn is Finkle. Too bad Shula the coach, being heralded as the greatest coach of all time, couldn't make up for the deficiencies of Shula the GM. How about those vaunted NFC teams drafting late? How many excuses are we going to make for 13 yearsw without a title with Dan Marino running your offense and not producing one super bowl. Whichever way you frame him as a GM or Coach, he failed Marino.

 

[royalshank]

So let me understand this, Don Shula the GM is the excuse for the colossal failures of Don Shula the coach? Finkle is Einhorn and Einhorn is Finkle. Too bad Shula the coach, being heralded as the greatest coach of all time, couldn't make up for the deficiencies of Shula the GM. How about those vaunted NFC teams drafting late? How many excuses are we going to make for 13 yearsw without a title with Dan Marino running your offense and not producing one super bowl. Whichever way you frame him as a GM or Coach, he failed Marino.

being a GM and being a coach are very different things. He was not a very good GM. But on game day was there anyone else you'd rather have on the sidelines? He has the most wins in NFL history. 347 in 33 seasons - an average of > 10 wins a year when more than half of his coaching career was when you had 14 games. Marino didn't get a ring. It's a pity - probably the best player in NFL history to not get one. But let's not act like what Shula accomplished was easy. BB still needs 100 wins to pass him. Considering he's won 12 games every year for the past 15 years that puts things in perspective. You can take BB to coach your fantasy team. I'll take Shula.

 

[Highzenga]

Slight edge to Shula over belichick. Shula had superior longevity and also was able to adapt his scheme to fit different personnel. We shall see how belichick does after Brady retires and then we will know the answer to this question

 

[BahamaFinFan78]

Slight edge to Shula over belichick. Shula had superior longevity and also was able to adapt his scheme to fit different personnel. We shall see how belichick does after Brady retires and then we will know the answer to this question

This is basically my opinion. Shula did it longer with diverse players and schemes. Belichick may be just as good or better, but I want to see Brady leave and Bill hang around for another 8-10 years. If he wins 12 games per year for 8 years, he will be up there with Shula for all time wins.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

I'd give Shula the nod over Bill B.

Because, Shula had success in Baltimore whereas Bill in Cleveland... not so much

Best coach overall is either Lombardi or Walsh.

My only issue with Walsh is longevity. He was amazing, built a team full of elite talent, innovative...but only coached for 10 years.

Could Walsh have survived the ups and downs that come with fielding a team year-after-year, inevitable draft misses and replacing elite talent? Maybe, but we just don't know.

Shula's first 10 years in Miami, by the way compare very closely to Walsh's tenure in SF. Shula won more games in that stretch and, like Walsh, appeared in three super bowls. Walsh won 3, while Shula won 2.

Knoll and Landry also coached long enough where they had to survive down years. I believe Knoll would be higher on this list if he was able to win after the steel curtain defense all left the game.

Would Shula, Landry and Knoll rank higher if they left the game while on top? If Shula retired after the super bowl VIII win, his teams would have been in four of the first eight super bowls.

Again, Walsh was great just debating longevity.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Didn't Shula reach SBs w/ 4 different QBs? meanwhile BB was a total failure as HC w/o Brady.

That is a good argument against Belichick and we'll have to see what he does when Brady retires. It's hard to win big without that elite quarterback. Honestly, I think Belichick sticks around for a few more years chasing that fifth super bowl win.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

That is literally all Shula's fault. Furthermore, The NFC powerhouses during the era had no problem maintaining their status while drafting deeper in the draft. Hell the Bills made 4 super bowls drafting second to last 4 straight years. Anymore excuses?

I can't recall how much say Shula had in the draft. I assume he had the final say. Even so, the Miami talent scouts and GM's were seriously deficient during the later part of Shula's career. He was such a great coach that the Dolphins didn't hit rock bottom thus not getting those elite picks.

But, to your point, talent evaluation wasn't Shula's strong point. Have to get Walsh and Belichick advantages there.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

this part of the argument is what impresses me most about what Shula was able to do. Yes most of his QBs were good but what he did w Woodley over 3 years (Woodley has the highest win % of all fins QBs!) and Scott Mitchell and Steve DeBerg off of the retirement couch was mind boggling. He was able to win w anyone behind center. That he didn't win the SB w Marino is probably the only reason there is doubt as to his place on the greatest list. That said, it was a weird time in the NFL. I can't explain the "why" but no AFC team was going to beat the smash mouth NFC teams for 15 straight years. We could have went to the SB 10 times w Marino and likely would have lost them all. Its just a shame that the class of '83 didn't get more rings. Even Elway - he was better when he was losing SBs than when the balance of power finally shifted perhaps thanks to FA or something - but he went out a two time champ thanks to a running game and D. He was still good but no longer dominant.

Interesting too that Pederson was the quarterback when Shula set the record for most wins. His record with Woodley was extremely impressive.

It's a shame that Miami wasn't able to put together a complete team during the Marino years. There were a few that had a chance, but like you said NFC had the power teams back then.

 

[nate5413]

I hate belichick,but hatred aside he's the best I'm ever seen. I don't remember Shula came around when jj was coach. What belIichick has done the last 15 years as coach and Gm and this year with no Brady is incredible.