Merged: Shifting Gears: Croyle, Whitehurst, and...McNeal | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Merged: Shifting Gears: Croyle, Whitehurst, and...McNeal

ckparrothead

Premium Member
Joined
May 24, 2002
Messages
52,592
Reaction score
7,256
Location
Tampa, FL
Shifting Gears: Croyle, Whitehurst, and...McNeal

This hype about Jay Cutler just will not stop. I'm starting to wonder if Mike Mayock is more of a prognosticator than we give him credit for, with him declaring very strongly that Jay Cutler will solidify as around a top 5 selection...who possibly could bypass the likes of Young or Leinart in the draft. As things stand I think the Tennessee Titans are quietly (and have been quietly) enamoured with Jay Cutler. He's a local hero to them just like Vince Young is a local hero to the Houston fan base. Also, consider that Jeff Fisher ADMITS that he put in calls to the league begging them to coach the Senior Bowl. Do you think it's any coincidence that he drew the NORTH squad instead of the SOUTH, even though San Fran is clearly far more northern than Nashville?

I think we've quietly got ourselves a Phil Rivers/Cadillac Williams situation going on, except nobody will crucify the Titans for this one whereas many crucified the Chargers for being in love with Rivers...because Cutler has ten times the physical ability of Phil Rivers. The last two drafts have featured senior bowl coaches that fell so in love with the ability of one of the players on their roster that they just had to make him a high draft selection. I don't think this will be any different. When it all is said and done I think the Titans are going to find a way to come out of the draft with Jay Cutler on their roster. This talk about Vince Young on the Titans, IMO, has completely ignored their offensive coordinator Norm Chow, who just does not run a system that is designed for Vince Young to be successful in.

This situation is turning out to be a lot like the Phil Rivers situation for Miami two years ago. Back then this board was aflame with debate over whether we should take Phil if he was available to us at #20. As we approached the draft the question became more and more of a moot point. So too will the Cutler question. Even Jay himself mentioned that he had a nice conversation with Nick Saban, but merely said that we might pick a QB, didn't say we'll get him. Jay knows he'll be long gone by #16.

So, we switch gears. And these are three of my top QB targets in the absence of Jay Cutler.


1. Brodie Croyle.

I openly speculated that when all was said and done in this Senior Bowl, Brodie would probably be the guy that has had more success than Jay Cutler. I still believe that, but I don't think we're going to see it until Thursday, and then in the game itself. This early in the Senior Bowl 2 years ago, JP Losman was whistling passes that sang to the scouts and Phil Rivers was not hot yet as he continued to digest the playbook and get timing down with the receivers. But, in the end, Rivers' better savvy shone through...and JP was caught playing playground ball, struggled, and got injured during the game. I still think the same could happen during the game for Jay Cutler...mixed results, a little playground ball, possibly an injury.

I also speculated that by the end of it all Brodie could end up in the very end of the first round. That appears to be off the mark, as scouts appear to be far too caught up in his skinny frame (which is plain stupid, if you ask me). Brodie will probably level out around the 2nd round...or if things do not go well through the rest of the Senior Bowl, possibly the 3rd round. I think we ought to consider him with either of those picks. The frame doesn't phase me. The injuries don't either, because it will be 2 years before he takes any serious stress to his body again and by that time he should not only be bigger and better equipped to handle the stress, but his knee will have been given plenty of calm time to heal up. You have to evaluate him based on his passing...which isn't flashy, but tends to be effective. As things stand, that I know of, he's the best QB at the Senior Bowl at beating the blitz with his arm by making pre-snap reads. He's also the best clutch performer that I can think of at the Senior Bowl, which includes Jay Cutler.

He needs some work to establish more accuracy, but he's a very smart, capable player with a very good arm that throws catchable balls (guys that throw it too hard will be victimized by drops their whole career, ask Brett Favre) and can read a defense very well and make clutch throws. He has worked in a pro style offense and knows what it means to make the most of your throws by completing the pass instead of getting homerun syndrome, where guys go for the homerun all the time figuring that they'll have two more throws to convert the first down if they don't connect on the big one.

When I've watched him, he could also move around within the pocket to buy time, although admittedly he doesn't often do much with throwing on the run when he does buy that time. As he beefs up when he gets to he pros (just make the man eat some catfish and cornbread for cryin out loud) his arm will probably get even stronger than it is right now. The nice part about his arm is it is obviously a very strong arm, but he does not seem to throw like he has too much confidence in it, unlike some other guys I'll get to in a moment. I think you draft a Brodie Croyle and you will see him on the field by the end of 2007. That is my opinion.


2. Charlie Whitehurst

This is a poor man's Jay Cutler if ever I've seen one. Jay strength profile fits Charlie's strength profile to a T. Jay has a fantastic arm, Charlie has a fantastic arm. Jay can run around really fast for a tall white boy, Charlie can run around really fast for a tall white boy. Jay has excellent height and an excellent body, Charlie has even better height and an excellent body. Jay has a habit of whistling passes into tight spots, Charlie has a habit of doing so as well. They both have a little too much confidence in their arms. Where the two begin to separate is in their care with the football, their delivery, and their field vision, IMO.

Jay is better in all three areas. Jay is pretty wreckless with the football at times, but Charlie can be even more so. Jay has a very compact delivery with no wasted motion, especially for such a young player, while Charlie has a longer over-the-top delivery. And while I would not say that Jay has displayed top notch field vision, Whitehurst at times has displayed outright miniscule field vision...tunnel vision if you will. It isn't that Charlie can't progress through his reads, that is not the issue. What I mean is, when he shifts focus, he really shifts focus....and that focus doesn't stretch 5 yards to the right or left of what he's staring at. What this means is that he'll often miss a safety or defensive back creeping toward the lane where he's about to throw the ball. I would imagine (though I have not seen it play out this way) that he would also be victimized by linemen or linebackers who get unexpectedly deep drops into coverage.

I once thought this was not something you could really change very easily in a guy. You either have the vision or you don't. I don't know how many of you saw though during halftime of the East-West Shrine Game that special on Brett Basanez and how he came to possess good field awareness and vision...and one of the things he credited was this nifty computer program that has you using 3-D glasses and that supposedly will increase your field of focus. I'm not saying this is some panacea for field vision problems but it did show me that methods do exist for increasing a guy's field awareness and good QB coaches will get creative with helping a guy out in that area. It eased my mind a little bit...made me feel this could be less of a "nature" issue and more of a "nurtur" issue than I once thought.

I don't know how Charlie is going to perform in the game. He's got the natural talent to do very well. He's also got a lot of experience in a lot of different style offenses...which ended in 2005 with him being in an offense that ran the ball like 55% of the time, and tossed bubble screens and flat passes like half the time they did pass the ball. So, he's got a little bit of that experience in pro attitude offenses where running the ball is key and completing a high percentage of passes is more key than taking a bunch of deep shots down the field. But, when I saw him play against Colorado in the bowl game, he didn't seem to have digested that lesson the same way Brodie Croyle has...so I have to wonder if Charlie won't struggle a bit in the game itself, especially with all these linebackers that can run like crazy. But consider the following quote, from one of the few draftniks whose opinion I truly trust, Colin Lindsey:

Colin Lindsey said:
This morning’s North practice got underway in real football weather – cloudy conditions, cool temps and a brisk wind – however the sun came out about a half hour into the workout to at least warm things up a tad. One can take it to the bank that the best QB at the Senior Bowl wears #6 for the North. That’s the easy part. The harder part of the equation is that Jay Cutler of Vanderbilt and Charlie Whitehurst of Clemson, easily the best two QBs in Mobile, are both wearing the same #6. And while Cutler came into the Senior Bowl as the higher rated player, Whitehurst may have an ever so slight lead between the two to date. The rangy Whitehurst certainly looks the part of a prototype pro pocket passer. Whitehurst is a long strider who sets up easily in the pocket and has a very smooth throwing motion. And Whitehurst was consistently hitting his receivers’ hands on the break in passing drills this morning. Cutler, for his part, is a little more compact than Whitehurst and not as smooth, but sets up and releases quickly, and like Whitehurst generally puts the ball where the receiver can cath it.

Whitehurst is really showing up at these practices. By the end of the Combine, we might be looking at a situation where we have to take him in the 3rd round to be sure of getting him. Is it worth it? I don't know yet...there's still plenty more to find out...but I'm softening to the idea!


3. Reggie McNeal

Keith is just going to pepper my hide for this one, I know it. But, this guy HAS to be a consideration. He didn't make a believer out of me at first with his Shrine Game performance...I was still quite skeptical. But my dreams have been outright HAUNTED by visions of the beautiful deep arcs he threw down the sidelines to Todd Watkins, Jason Carter, and Mike Hass to bring the West back to win the game.

I guess one thing that is throwing me off is the mixed reports I heard during practice. I had heard at first, from Rob Rang reports, that McNeal did not do so hot in practice...that Pinegar looked the best in practice. Later, however, I heard from multiple sources that the most impressive QB was Reggie McNeal, and that he was likely in for a big day. The analysts there during the game seemed to think McNeal was the real guy to watch.

At first I did not believe it. He led the West to two straight touchdown drives on his first two series. When he came back in later in the game (after Olson and Pinegar each got their two drives), he led the team to two straight touchdown drives with deep passes to Jason Carter, Todd Watkins, and Mike Hass. The outside view alone looks pretty impressive...4 drives, 4 touchdowns.

Go deeper, and at first I was not impressed even though I should have been. He had two negative plays during the first drive. On the first play of the drive, on a designed rollout he was challenged be a DE right away, tried to outrun him toward the sidelines and couldn't, so he took a step back and totally pulled a Cutler...tossed a smoking rocket off his back foot deep down the field to a WR that ended up double covered. Note though, that the rollout was designed, and he was challenged immediately. He wasn't displaying happy legs or anything. The only other negative play, is a play that really only the most avidly anti-scrambling fan could nitpick. The pocket began to collapse, but he had a RB rolling in front of him from the middle of the field to the sidelines wide open that probably could have moved the sticks, but since the way immediately ahead of Reggie was also wide open, he chose to run the same way the RB was going and he directed him with his arm to block for him. Could he have passed it? Yeah. Would have gained the same yardage and he'd have saved the hit, but with the RB blocking for him he also could have had a shot at making a much bigger play had the RB blocked well for him.

He scrambled on that drive 3 other times for first downs...totaling 4 carries for 32 yards and 4 first downs running...but upon second review, he was completely justified in every one of them (except the one mentioned) and at no time did he look to run BEFORE he looked to pass. In each case, nobody was open, the pocket was collapsing, so he took off. His passes were crisp, and were whistling. His ball placement was nice and high. His mechanics were always good. His two incompletions on the first drive were both the same...rolling out to the right with a DE in his face, he steps backwards and launches...but the second time he obviously learned his lesson from the first throw because he launched a throw-away instead of trying to make something from nothing. The final play of the drive 3rd and Goal from the 2, was one of those ridiculous plays that only these kinds of physically gifted QBs can make. It was a broken play...a linebacker broke free on a rush straight through the middle which immediately forced Vick, I mean err, McNeal backward and to the right where, guess what, there's another linebacker who blitzed from that side and never even got challenged by the TE that was in blocking. McNeal stops on dime, starts running back to his left, is about to get caught by the LB that blitzed from the right, launches a laser pass AGAINST HIS BODY from a top speed run literally 25 yards to the back of the endzone where Tim Day was in the middle of traffic and somehow the ball fits in the middle of three defenders and Day makes the catch. If you guys remember that play that made Cleo Lemon famous in preseason? This was one of those plays, except more impressive because by the time Cleo had thrown his ball he was stepping forward more than to the left and against his body. Reggie was at a dead run against his body when he got this ball out.

On initial review, myself and others thought this was just a terrible decision and McNeal just got lucky. After looking at it closely, however, I saw what Reggie saw...and that is that two of the defenders that ended up closing on the ball were off to the right and left covering their own guys and with the speed of McNeal's pass, had no chance at making it to the ball's path. What McNeal saw, was Tim Day in the end zone being single covered man to man by a linebacker whose back was completely to the QB. McNeal threw it up to see if Day could make a play, and indeed he did. This was man coverage, mind you. You don't get away with this in zone coverage.

Second drive he throws another laser, placed nice and high where the WR can reach for it, to his TAMU teammate Jason Carter on a skinny post. Next pass I counted three reads before he passed it out in the flat area to his FB for a 6 yard gain. Next pass Reggie committed a cardinal sin, but surprise surprise it worked out for him. The pocket broke down (man I didn't notice but the South's DL was REALLY good in this game...especially Wyche) and Reggie rolled to his left again. He threw the ball back toward the middle of the field while rolling left, and this is a cardinal sin really in NFL football...throwing back to the middle when rolling to your non-throwing side. But, can Reggie really help if if Mike Hass was tecmo open in the middle of the field? Not really. So the play went for like a 20 yard gain. They run a couple of times on Goal-to-Go and get another touchdown.

Reggie comes out of the game with the West leading the East 14-7. Fast forward, and Reggie doesn't get to come back in until 8 minutes left in the game, down 31-21. First throw, he drops back, makes his reads...gets a little antsy as the pocket looks like it's breaking down, sees his teammate Jason Carter streaking up the field as he beats his coverage and Reggie launched one of the PRETTIEST deep balls you will ever see thrown...one of those balls that screams out to you wow, this kid has an arm...yet the arc and trajectory were good and high enough that the ball could drop over the WRs shoulder as it did straight into Jason Carter's hands...getting them into another Goal-to-Go and touchdown run. On the sidelines, the East is back out on the field, and Reggie's being interviewed...and god you have to love this kind of confidence but the interviewer asks what he saw on that play and he just said he read down the field, saw him open, got it to him...then when asked what he thinks of the rest of the game and a comeback victory he said simple "D, you get them off the field, we'll go win the game." Period. Just like that. And what did he do? He did exactly that. Took him all of like 3 plays...a deep jump ball to Todd Watkins down the left sidelines on single coverage (a teensy bit underthrown, but it was single coverage throwing a really tall playmaker like Watkins, so that's actually ok)...and another beautiful arc pass to Mike Hass on a go route to the right...beautiful touch on the pass. It is passes like these that have HAUNTED my memory since the game. Haunted, I tell you!

Let's get something straight. Reggie McNeal had every advantage in this game. The D had to rush four DL every play with the exception I think of near the goal line, and even though the East DL handed the West OL's butts to them generally whenever Reggie was in, no blitzing means a disadvantage in facing a guy who has speed like Reggie does. Also, the D was not allowed to use a true Cover 2 in the secondary. Here's a severe advantage for ya, Reggie knew the playbook backwards and forwards, unlike everyone else, because it was the Texas A&M playbook! He also had his favorite WR Jason Carter to throw to, who he hooked up with twice including the deep bomb. But you know what? These are the sort of advantages I expect a DECENT THROWING QUARTERBACK to be able to take advantage of. Until now, I'd basically penciled Mr. McNeal in as a wide receiver...with his 4.3 speed and 6'2" frame.

But in this game, Reggie was a quarterback using the weapons he had at his disposal. He was not the dreaded "run-first" quarterback that people (namely Keith) fear can never succeed in the NFL. Dare I say, he's got Mike Vick's arm and pretty passes, he's got Vick's 40 speed, he's got Vick's FEET....but he has a good 2 inches on Mike Vick, a better passing mentality, and the ability to hit receivers on deep passes along the sidelines. Basically, he has enough to be considered as a quarterback in this draft...and one with a darn good bit of potential on top of it. We'd be nuts not to pay attention to that...especially given our new coordinator's track record with "Slash" himself.

It ain't easy for me to just change my mind like this, trust me. I've had the guy penciled for a WR for ages. And, I was too stubborn on the initial review of the Shrine Game to admit the dude just went out there and dominated like I had not seen a guy dominate in an All-Star Game since Phil Rivers, maybe even more than Rivers. But those pretty passes...they haunt me so. Basically, if Reggie McNeal is on the board for us in Round 3....I find it VERY difficult to say no.



And that's my peace.
 
Shifting Gears: Croyle, Whitehurst, and...McNeal

This hype about Jay Cutler just will not stop. I'm starting to wonder if Mike Mayock is more of a prognosticator than we give him credit for, with him declaring very strongly that Jay Cutler will solidify as around a top 5 selection...who possibly could bypass the likes of Young or Leinart in the draft. As things stand I think the Tennessee Titans are quietly (and have been quietly) enamoured with Jay Cutler. He's a local hero to them just like Vince Young is a local hero to the Houston fan base. Also, consider that Jeff Fisher ADMITS that he put in calls to the league begging them to coach the Senior Bowl. Do you think it's any coincidence that he drew the NORTH squad instead of the SOUTH, even though San Fran is clearly far more northern than Nashville?

I think we've quietly got ourselves a Phil Rivers/Cadillac Williams situation going on, except nobody will crucify the Titans for this one whereas many crucified the Chargers for being in love with Rivers...because Cutler has ten times the physical ability of Phil Rivers. The last two drafts have featured senior bowl coaches that fell so in love with the ability of one of the players on their roster that they just had to make him a high draft selection. I don't think this will be any different. When it all is said and done I think the Titans are going to find a way to come out of the draft with Jay Cutler on their roster. This talk about Vince Young on the Titans, IMO, has completely ignored their offensive coordinator Norm Chow, who just does not run a system that is designed for Vince Young to be successful in.

This situation is turning out to be a lot like the Phil Rivers situation for Miami two years ago. Back then this board was aflame with debate over whether we should take Phil if he was available to us at #20. As we approached the draft the question became more and more of a moot point. So too will the Cutler question. Even Jay himself mentioned that he had a nice conversation with Nick Saban, but merely said that we might pick a QB, didn't say we'll get him. Jay knows he'll be long gone by #16.

So, we switch gears. And these are three of my top QB targets in the absence of Jay Cutler.


1. Brodie Croyle.

I openly speculated that when all was said and done in this Senior Bowl, Brodie would probably be the guy that has had more success than Jay Cutler. I still believe that, but I don't think we're going to see it until Thursday, and then in the game itself. This early in the Senior Bowl 2 years ago, JP Losman was whistling passes that sang to the scouts and Phil Rivers was not hot yet as he continued to digest the playbook and get timing down with the receivers. But, in the end, Rivers' better savvy shone through...and JP was caught playing playground ball, struggled, and got injured during the game. I still think the same could happen during the game for Jay Cutler...mixed results, a little playground ball, possibly an injury.

I also speculated that by the end of it all Brodie could end up in the very end of the first round. That appears to be off the mark, as scouts appear to be far too caught up in his skinny frame (which is plain stupid, if you ask me). Brodie will probably level out around the 2nd round...or if things do not go well through the rest of the Senior Bowl, possibly the 3rd round. I think we ought to consider him with either of those picks. The frame doesn't phase me. The injuries don't either, because it will be 2 years before he takes any serious stress to his body again and by that time he should not only be bigger and better equipped to handle the stress, but his knee will have been given plenty of calm time to heal up. You have to evaluate him based on his passing...which isn't flashy, but tends to be effective. As things stand, that I know of, he's the best QB at the Senior Bowl at beating the blitz with his arm by making pre-snap reads. He's also the best clutch performer that I can think of at the Senior Bowl, which includes Jay Cutler.

He needs some work to establish more accuracy, but he's a very smart, capable player with a very good arm that throws catchable balls (guys that throw it too hard will be victimized by drops their whole career, ask Brett Favre) and can read a defense very well and make clutch throws. He has worked in a pro style offense and knows what it means to make the most of your throws by completing the pass instead of getting homerun syndrome, where guys go for the homerun all the time figuring that they'll have two more throws to convert the first down if they don't connect on the big one.

When I've watched him, he could also move around within the pocket to buy time, although admittedly he doesn't often do much with throwing on the run when he does buy that time. As he beefs up when he gets to he pros (just make the man eat some catfish and cornbread for cryin out loud) his arm will probably get even stronger than it is right now. The nice part about his arm is it is obviously a very strong arm, but he does not seem to throw like he has too much confidence in it, unlike some other guys I'll get to in a moment. I think you draft a Brodie Croyle and you will see him on the field by the end of 2007. That is my opinion.


2. Charlie Whitehurst

This is a poor man's Jay Cutler if ever I've seen one. Jay strength profile fits Charlie's strength profile to a T. Jay has a fantastic arm, Charlie has a fantastic arm. Jay can run around really fast for a tall white boy, Charlie can run around really fast for a tall white boy. Jay has excellent height and an excellent body, Charlie has even better height and an excellent body. Jay has a habit of whistling passes into tight spots, Charlie has a habit of doing so as well. They both have a little too much confidence in their arms. Where the two begin to separate is in their care with the football, their delivery, and their field vision, IMO.

Jay is better in all three areas. Jay is pretty wreckless with the football at times, but Charlie can be even more so. Jay has a very compact delivery with no wasted motion, especially for such a young player, while Charlie has a longer over-the-top delivery. And while I would not say that Jay has displayed top notch field vision, Whitehurst at times has displayed outright miniscule field vision...tunnel vision if you will. It isn't that Charlie can't progress through his reads, that is not the issue. What I mean is, when he shifts focus, he really shifts focus....and that focus doesn't stretch 5 yards to the right or left of what he's staring at. What this means is that he'll often miss a safety or defensive back creeping toward the lane where he's about to throw the ball. I would imagine (though I have not seen it play out this way) that he would also be victimized by linemen or linebackers who get unexpectedly deep drops into coverage.

I once thought this was not something you could really change very easily in a guy. You either have the vision or you don't. I don't know how many of you saw though during halftime of the East-West Shrine Game that special on Brett Basanez and how he came to possess good field awareness and vision...and one of the things he credited was this nifty computer program that has you using 3-D glasses and that supposedly will increase your field of focus. I'm not saying this is some panacea for field vision problems but it did show me that methods do exist for increasing a guy's field awareness and good QB coaches will get creative with helping a guy out in that area. It eased my mind a little bit...made me feel this could be less of a "nature" issue and more of a "nurtur" issue than I once thought.

I don't know how Charlie is going to perform in the game. He's got the natural talent to do very well. He's also got a lot of experience in a lot of different style offenses...which ended in 2005 with him being in an offense that ran the ball like 55% of the time, and tossed bubble screens and flat passes like half the time they did pass the ball. So, he's got a little bit of that experience in pro attitude offenses where running the ball is key and completing a high percentage of passes is more key than taking a bunch of deep shots down the field. But, when I saw him play against Colorado in the bowl game, he didn't seem to have digested that lesson the same way Brodie Croyle has...so I have to wonder if Charlie won't struggle a bit in the game itself, especially with all these linebackers that can run like crazy. But consider the following quote, from one of the few draftniks whose opinion I truly trust, Colin Lindsey:

Colin Lindsey said:
This morning’s North practice got underway in real football weather – cloudy conditions, cool temps and a brisk wind – however the sun came out about a half hour into the workout to at least warm things up a tad. One can take it to the bank that the best QB at the Senior Bowl wears #6 for the North. That’s the easy part. The harder part of the equation is that Jay Cutler of Vanderbilt and Charlie Whitehurst of Clemson, easily the best two QBs in Mobile, are both wearing the same #6. And while Cutler came into the Senior Bowl as the higher rated player, Whitehurst may have an ever so slight lead between the two to date. The rangy Whitehurst certainly looks the part of a prototype pro pocket passer. Whitehurst is a long strider who sets up easily in the pocket and has a very smooth throwing motion. And Whitehurst was consistently hitting his receivers’ hands on the break in passing drills this morning. Cutler, for his part, is a little more compact than Whitehurst and not as smooth, but sets up and releases quickly, and like Whitehurst generally puts the ball where the receiver can cath it.

Whitehurst is really showing up at these practices. By the end of the Combine, we might be looking at a situation where we have to take him in the 3rd round to be sure of getting him. Is it worth it? I don't know yet...there's still plenty more to find out...but I'm softening to the idea!


3. Reggie McNeal

Keith is just going to pepper my hide for this one, I know it. But, this guy HAS to be a consideration. He didn't make a believer out of me at first with his Shrine Game performance...I was still quite skeptical. But my dreams have been outright HAUNTED by visions of the beautiful deep arcs he threw down the sidelines to Todd Watkins, Jason Carter, and Mike Hass to bring the West back to win the game.

I guess one thing that is throwing me off is the mixed reports I heard during practice. I had heard at first, from Rob Rang reports, that McNeal did not do so hot in practice...that Pinegar looked the best in practice. Later, however, I heard from multiple sources that the most impressive QB was Reggie McNeal, and that he was likely in for a big day. The analysts there during the game seemed to think McNeal was the real guy to watch.

At first I did not believe it. He led the West to two straight touchdown drives on his first two series. When he came back in later in the game (after Olson and Pinegar each got their two drives), he led the team to two straight touchdown drives with deep passes to Jason Carter, Todd Watkins, and Mike Hass. The outside view alone looks pretty impressive...4 drives, 4 touchdowns.

Go deeper, and at first I was not impressed even though I should have been. He had two negative plays during the first drive. On the first play of the drive, on a designed rollout he was challenged be a DE right away, tried to outrun him toward the sidelines and couldn't, so he took a step back and totally pulled a Cutler...tossed a smoking rocket off his back foot deep down the field to a WR that ended up double covered. Note though, that the rollout was designed, and he was challenged immediately. He wasn't displaying happy legs or anything. The only other negative play, is a play that really only the most avidly anti-scrambling fan could nitpick. The pocket began to collapse, but he had a RB rolling in front of him from the middle of the field to the sidelines wide open that probably could have moved the sticks, but since the way immediately ahead of Reggie was also wide open, he chose to run the same way the RB was going and he directed him with his arm to block for him. Could he have passed it? Yeah. Would have gained the same yardage and he'd have saved the hit, but with the RB blocking for him he also could have had a shot at making a much bigger play had the RB blocked well for him.

He scrambled on that drive 3 other times for first downs...totaling 4 carries for 32 yards and 4 first downs running...but upon second review, he was completely justified in every one of them (except the one mentioned) and at no time did he look to run BEFORE he looked to pass. In each case, nobody was open, the pocket was collapsing, so he took off. His passes were crisp, and were whistling. His ball placement was nice and high. His mechanics were always good. His two incompletions on the first drive were both the same...rolling out to the right with a DE in his face, he steps backwards and launches...but the second time he obviously learned his lesson from the first throw because he launched a throw-away instead of trying to make something from nothing. The final play of the drive 3rd and Goal from the 2, was one of those ridiculous plays that only these kinds of physically gifted QBs can make. It was a broken play...a linebacker broke free on a rush straight through the middle which immediately forced Vick, I mean err, McNeal backward and to the right where, guess what, there's another linebacker who blitzed from that side and never even got challenged by the TE that was in blocking. McNeal stops on dime, starts running back to his left, is about to get caught by the LB that blitzed from the right, launches a laser pass AGAINST HIS BODY from a top speed run literally 25 yards to the back of the endzone where Tim Day was in the middle of traffic and somehow the ball fits in the middle of three defenders and Day makes the catch. If you guys remember that play that made Cleo Lemon famous in preseason? This was one of those plays, except more impressive because by the time Cleo had thrown his ball he was stepping forward more than to the left and against his body. Reggie was at a dead run against his body when he got this ball out.

On initial review, myself and others thought this was just a terrible decision and McNeal just got lucky. After looking at it closely, however, I saw what Reggie saw...and that is that two of the defenders that ended up closing on the ball were off to the right and left covering their own guys and with the speed of McNeal's pass, had no chance at making it to the ball's path. What McNeal saw, was Tim Day in the end zone being single covered man to man by a linebacker whose back was completely to the QB. McNeal threw it up to see if Day could make a play, and indeed he did. This was man coverage, mind you. You don't get away with this in zone coverage.

Second drive he throws another laser, placed nice and high where the WR can reach for it, to his TAMU teammate Jason Carter on a skinny post. Next pass I counted three reads before he passed it out in the flat area to his FB for a 6 yard gain. Next pass Reggie committed a cardinal sin, but surprise surprise it worked out for him. The pocket broke down (man I didn't notice but the South's DL was REALLY good in this game...especially Wyche) and Reggie rolled to his left again. He threw the ball back toward the middle of the field while rolling left, and this is a cardinal sin really in NFL football...throwing back to the middle when rolling to your non-throwing side. But, can Reggie really help if if Mike Hass was tecmo open in the middle of the field? Not really. So the play went for like a 20 yard gain. They run a couple of times on Goal-to-Go and get another touchdown.

Reggie comes out of the game with the West leading the East 14-7. Fast forward, and Reggie doesn't get to come back in until 8 minutes left in the game, down 31-21. First throw, he drops back, makes his reads...gets a little antsy as the pocket looks like it's breaking down, sees his teammate Jason Carter streaking up the field as he beats his coverage and Reggie launched one of the PRETTIEST deep balls you will ever see thrown...one of those balls that screams out to you wow, this kid has an arm...yet the arc and trajectory were good and high enough that the ball could drop over the WRs shoulder as it did straight into Jason Carter's hands...getting them into another Goal-to-Go and touchdown run. On the sidelines, the East is back out on the field, and Reggie's being interviewed...and god you have to love this kind of confidence but the interviewer asks what he saw on that play and he just said he read down the field, saw him open, got it to him...then when asked what he thinks of the rest of the game and a comeback victory he said simple "D, you get them off the field, we'll go win the game." Period. Just like that. And what did he do? He did exactly that. Took him all of like 3 plays...a deep jump ball to Todd Watkins down the left sidelines on single coverage (a teensy bit underthrown, but it was single coverage throwing a really tall playmaker like Watkins, so that's actually ok)...and another beautiful arc pass to Mike Hass on a go route to the right...beautiful touch on the pass. It is passes like these that have HAUNTED my memory since the game. Haunted, I tell you!

Let's get something straight. Reggie McNeal had every advantage in this game. The D had to rush four DL every play with the exception I think of near the goal line, and even though the East DL handed the West OL's butts to them generally whenever Reggie was in, no blitzing means a disadvantage in facing a guy who has speed like Reggie does. Also, the D was not allowed to use a true Cover 2 in the secondary. Here's a severe advantage for ya, Reggie knew the playbook backwards and forwards, unlike everyone else, because it was the Texas A&M playbook! He also had his favorite WR Jason Carter to throw to, who he hooked up with twice including the deep bomb. But you know what? These are the sort of advantages I expect a DECENT THROWING QUARTERBACK to be able to take advantage of. Until now, I'd basically penciled Mr. McNeal in as a wide receiver...with his 4.3 speed and 6'2" frame.

But in this game, Reggie was a quarterback using the weapons he had at his disposal. He was not the dreaded "run-first" quarterback that people (namely Keith) fear can never succeed in the NFL. Dare I say, he's got Mike Vick's arm and pretty passes, he's got Vick's 40 speed, he's got Vick's FEET....but he has a good 2 inches on Mike Vick, a better passing mentality, and the ability to hit receivers on deep passes along the sidelines. Basically, he has enough to be considered as a quarterback in this draft...and one with a darn good bit of potential on top of it. We'd be nuts not to pay attention to that...especially given our new coordinator's track record with "Slash" himself.

It ain't easy for me to just change my mind like this, trust me. I've had the guy penciled for a WR for ages. And, I was too stubborn on the initial review of the Shrine Game to admit the dude just went out there and dominated like I had not seen a guy dominate in an All-Star Game since Phil Rivers, maybe even more than Rivers. But those pretty passes...they haunt me so. Basically, if Reggie McNeal is on the board for us in Round 3....I find it VERY difficult to say no.



And that's my peace.
 
Thanks for the good read. :)

I don't know much about any of the QB's you mentioned as I have only seen 1 game of Whitehurst and 1 game of Cutler. Though with your analysis on them i'm starting to warm to Whitehurst as we can get him in the 3rd round.
 
wow... havent even read it all but I can tell you put alot of time into this... well done...
 
Thanks for taking the time to write this CK. Your reviews are always insightful :)
 
Wow CK, how long did it take you to write all that?...You're amazing sometimes and I have no idea where you get the time to do it.Anyway, on to your post.I like all 3 QB's but after watching the last game,I think I like Mcneal the best right now.He's got the arm plus he can always hurt you with his legs.The question is, where do we take him?Will he be there at our pick in round 3? At this point I doubt it.Will he be there at 51?I hope so but I'm not holding my breath....I know a lot of people on here will say that he's a reach in the 2nd and even more in the 1st but the fact is that QB is the most important position on the team and that's why teams reach our for those guys.One way or the other I hope Nick takes a shot at him cos I think he's gonna be a big time playmaker and I don't say that very often about college kids.

Ozzy rules!!
:rockon: :guitar:
 
made me wish I watched the game. Good read as always. Long as always as well :).
 
Mcneal if he doesnt change position is a major major project. Even if you were impressed with how he perfomed in the shrine game.... you should'nt have been. A scrambling qb's dream is to have a defense not prepare and have a game plan in stopping you from running wild. I think mcneal is a good prospect, but most likely at a wr position. If he stays at qb he will needs years to be groomed including some years in nfl europe.
 
dude ck i love you man. this was so well written i wanted to hang up on my girlfriend. i like wat u said about croyle. hes just a winner. Reggie seems like a good prospect in the later rounds. whats ur opinion on omar jacobs?
 
I watched the 2nd day of Senior bowl practice today. It ran on Espn(2:30) and the NFL channel(3:00). I saw a few Alabama games and liked what I saw of Croyle, so I payed attention to him today and I was very impressed. In the wrap up afterward, Pat Kirwan said that some of the scouts and GMs wished they could see Croyle and Cutler side by side instead of different teams. Croyle is definetly moving up on some teams boards.
 
I think it may come down to just how much they like Croyle vs. whether they think they can a) get Croyle or Whitehurst at their later picks and b) think they can be starting QB's in the league. If they feel strongly that they can get one of the two latter guys and that they can be starters in a couple of years they will wait on them IMO. If not and they really like Cutler then I think they will trade up and get him. At this point though, I think they really want the QB of the future to come from this draft and will do what it takes to get him even if that means giving up picks.

But they seem to be spending alot of focus on Whitehurst. He is a guy I have liked for a couple of years now. He hasn't really realized his potential, but has all the tools you look for. If Saban and Mueller feel he is their guy I would not mind it at all because with the right coaching I think he can become a very good QB.
 
They'll oppose each other so it'll be a interesting matchup. Cutler will have the better defensive players IMO, but Croyle the better offensive line to help him.
 
Great post, but my opinion on Whitehurst will not change. I just don't see him being good at the NFL level.
 
This may sound silly and could just very well be flat out stupid! But the sound of Jay Cutler sounds right. Sounds like a success. Charlie Whitehurst sounds like a flop! LOL
 
Ck, do you bring your laptop and write as you watch? Incredible. Good stuff. Tanks bro!
 
Back
Top Bottom