I just want to state that regardless of how well we do this year, I truly love the fact that our O-Line will be one of the youngest and could very well be one of the best in the league. We should have two great Tackles, one great Left Guard. The Right Guard and the Center may not be great but who has 5 pro-bowlers on their line anyway? In today's FA, that is impossible. No one on the line is over 27 and that includes our backups. The hope here is that they gel this year and continue that into the next year to take advantage of ricky's time, b/c RB's are only good until they turn 29 and 30 at the latest.
O-Line
- Thread starter OG54
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darkoak
☠️ Banned ☠️
Sounds great, but I expect lots of two TE sets this year, just call it a hunch.OG54 said:
I agree...it looks great, and I think we owe it to RS...remember at this time last year Wanny was saying he liked what we had, etc etc, all because he had spent all his time on defensive personnel and ignored the OL? Well, Rick came in and changed that around...truthfully maybe there were conversations with Wanny in which they agreed that more commitment had to be made to the OL
But it does look great for the next few years! Ricky must be licking his chops!
But it does look great for the next few years! Ricky must be licking his chops!
finsnchips
2005 FinHeaven GM League Champion!!
We got lucky in a number of ways really, especially at tackle.
Wade Smith was not meant to start 16 games at LT last year, the fact that he didis great in the long run, and should be good for this season.
I'm hyped about Vernon Carey, he has the potential to be a perennial pro bowler. He is a monster, loves this team and is a home grown talent.
Jeno James provides great leadership.
I would still prefer McKinney as the sixth lineman backing up at center and guard (hopefully we can get either Wilkerson (LSU) or Carter (Oklahoma) at #32 in next years draft).
I've heard really good things about Jerman, and also think that Tony Pape has potential though I have not heard that much.
I dunno whats gonna happen with McIntosh, maybe we will cut our losses and release him after this year, or move inside Vernon at RG.
I really dont like St Clair. But think that guys like Hadnot, Yates and Whitley are solid if inexperienced backups.
Wade Smith was not meant to start 16 games at LT last year, the fact that he didis great in the long run, and should be good for this season.
I'm hyped about Vernon Carey, he has the potential to be a perennial pro bowler. He is a monster, loves this team and is a home grown talent.
Jeno James provides great leadership.
I would still prefer McKinney as the sixth lineman backing up at center and guard (hopefully we can get either Wilkerson (LSU) or Carter (Oklahoma) at #32 in next years draft).
I've heard really good things about Jerman, and also think that Tony Pape has potential though I have not heard that much.
I dunno whats gonna happen with McIntosh, maybe we will cut our losses and release him after this year, or move inside Vernon at RG.
I really dont like St Clair. But think that guys like Hadnot, Yates and Whitley are solid if inexperienced backups.
burton87
Favorite Dolphin = Bill Gramatica
Yea I agree, I don't know why everybody thinks that we have a really pathetic o-line. They are all pretty young and somewhat experienced, BUT must importantly they haven't played one game yet together AS A GROUP. Who knows, they could prove everybody wrong, and turn into one of the most dominate lines in the league
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I agree. I like what they did with the OL. IMO this team, with a dominant OL, is a SB team. I think the OL has the potential to become that. Of course potential doesn't mean anything. We won't know if this OL will gel this season, next season or never, but I like the logical steps the team took.
who are our biggest tight ends? something i would love to see is to put st clair, if he isnt starting, and that big tight end on running downs. and if that other tightend is donald lee then we at least have somewhat of a receiving threat in that situation if we do a play action because once the defense sees this theyll ALL come creeping up.darkoak said:
hate to be the guy with the bad news, but let's not forget we only have 2 sure things next year: Jeno James and Wade Smith.
Vernon Carey...since when are rookies successful? I guess St. Clair is there, but the guy is a scrub too. McIntosh? Didn't JT say he wasn't the answer
McKinney....yeah, looks like a better talent than Ruddy, but is he ready?
Who's RG? St. Clair, Jerman, Whitley? All of which aren't anything special
I like that we got rid of that deadweight, but our line IS NOT top 15.
Vernon Carey...since when are rookies successful? I guess St. Clair is there, but the guy is a scrub too. McIntosh? Didn't JT say he wasn't the answer
McKinney....yeah, looks like a better talent than Ruddy, but is he ready?
Who's RG? St. Clair, Jerman, Whitley? All of which aren't anything special
I like that we got rid of that deadweight, but our line IS NOT top 15.
Ross
Trouble Shooter
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While some of you may love the fact we got a young O-line, I hate it. Young lineman normally lose more battles than they win.
Having said that, I do love the fact That our O-line is different from last years. Our Oline had to be one of the worse in the league and I feel it was largely responsable for the pathic output last year...
--Ross
Having said that, I do love the fact That our O-line is different from last years. Our Oline had to be one of the worse in the league and I feel it was largely responsable for the pathic output last year...
--Ross
girthvader44
Starter
Well, I'm not sure how this works really, but I'll go for it.
I must say that there is something to be said about the potential of this years line compared to last years. If you havent noticed, 4 of our lineman from last years squad (3 STARTERS) are not even in the league at the moment. We will be very young, and have very little chemistry, but we'll be fast, aggressive, and tough. I'll take that over "seasoned, experienced, and durable," which was our guys only calling card from 2002.
Didnt your coach always tell you, "Son, if you're going to screw up, you better screw up going 100 miles an hour, and someone better get knocked on their @*%!"
If Ricky can run for 1400 yards behind that hodge podge line, imagine the damage he'll do with some ATHLETES blocking for him.
My two cents.
I must say that there is something to be said about the potential of this years line compared to last years. If you havent noticed, 4 of our lineman from last years squad (3 STARTERS) are not even in the league at the moment. We will be very young, and have very little chemistry, but we'll be fast, aggressive, and tough. I'll take that over "seasoned, experienced, and durable," which was our guys only calling card from 2002.
Didnt your coach always tell you, "Son, if you're going to screw up, you better screw up going 100 miles an hour, and someone better get knocked on their @*%!"
If Ricky can run for 1400 yards behind that hodge podge line, imagine the damage he'll do with some ATHLETES blocking for him.
My two cents.
dolphan39
Maria & LauRen Aha!
I have to agree 100% with what Spielman did. Having lost out on Tait, Woody and S Andrews, you still have to wonder if the our OL will back good enuf in 2004 and that is the #1 question surronunding this team IMO. Beyond 2004, they c/b a decent to good OL especially if McKinney steps it up or we get a great C
I think our line will be a lot better than last year.
LT- Wade Smith> 2003 Wade Smith
Smith gained tons of expierence last year and was probaley our 2nd best lineman last year. He added 15 pounds to his frame and should only get better.
LG- Jeno James>> 2003 Jamie Nails
James was a mauler for Carolina last year and the interior was a big problem for us last year. James will open truck lanes for Ricky this year and is still young. He is also a fiery player that should provide leadership to help our young line gell quicker.
C- Seth McKinney> 2003 Tim Ruddy
I dont know what happened last year with Ruddy, but he was terrible. He couldn't stop linebackers from getting to Ricky within the first three yards. I don't know how good McKinney will be, but he can't be as bad as Ruddy was last year. If McKinney is that bad than St. Clair can play center too.
RG- Greg Jerman ??? 2003 Todd Perry
All the coaches are raving about Jerman and I think he is the key to the o-line. If he proves capable at RG than that will put Carey at RT. It will also give the Fins two big mauling guards.
RT- Vernon Carey< 2003 Todd Wade
This is our only downgrade at line and it's only because Carey is a rookie. In the long run, I think Carey will be tons better than Wade. Smith and Carey should set our outside for a long time to come.
We've also got St. Clair who is a very good 6th lineman. He is versatile and would provide good insurance in case of injury. The wildcard of the group is Taylor Whitley. Has potential to be a very good G for us. Has chance to compete at guard against Jerman. In any case, I think the line will seem young and inexpierenced at the beginning, but towards the end of the season I expect them to be a strength. In 2005, I think in 2005 we'll have one of the best lines in the NFL.
LT- Wade Smith> 2003 Wade Smith
Smith gained tons of expierence last year and was probaley our 2nd best lineman last year. He added 15 pounds to his frame and should only get better.
LG- Jeno James>> 2003 Jamie Nails
James was a mauler for Carolina last year and the interior was a big problem for us last year. James will open truck lanes for Ricky this year and is still young. He is also a fiery player that should provide leadership to help our young line gell quicker.
C- Seth McKinney> 2003 Tim Ruddy
I dont know what happened last year with Ruddy, but he was terrible. He couldn't stop linebackers from getting to Ricky within the first three yards. I don't know how good McKinney will be, but he can't be as bad as Ruddy was last year. If McKinney is that bad than St. Clair can play center too.
RG- Greg Jerman ??? 2003 Todd Perry
All the coaches are raving about Jerman and I think he is the key to the o-line. If he proves capable at RG than that will put Carey at RT. It will also give the Fins two big mauling guards.
RT- Vernon Carey< 2003 Todd Wade
This is our only downgrade at line and it's only because Carey is a rookie. In the long run, I think Carey will be tons better than Wade. Smith and Carey should set our outside for a long time to come.
We've also got St. Clair who is a very good 6th lineman. He is versatile and would provide good insurance in case of injury. The wildcard of the group is Taylor Whitley. Has potential to be a very good G for us. Has chance to compete at guard against Jerman. In any case, I think the line will seem young and inexpierenced at the beginning, but towards the end of the season I expect them to be a strength. In 2005, I think in 2005 we'll have one of the best lines in the NFL.
nicolosi718
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Our offense is coming together. A new qb behnd a young o-line with proven players at the skill positions makes me think in two years the offense will be the strength of this team. We are built to win now, but it is nice to know we will have something going for us when the D starts its decline(hopefully not for a long time).
killswitch
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Phins O-line
Projected Starters:
LT - Wade Smith: tons of potential, great feet, has the athleticism to always get in the proper position... suppossedly got significantly stronger over the offseason, which may help him in being more aggressive... adequate as a rookie and should continue to improve with valueable experience... I see him as solid starting LT for next year, and possibly an elite LT in the years following
LG - Jeno James: an all-around great player... tough, physical, smart, very hard worker... both young and well-experienced... a coach's dream and popular in the locker room
C - Seth McKinney: former 3rd-round pick... has good blood, as his brother Steve has been a solid starter at C for the pas few years... smart, fierce, hard-nosed player, who seems aggressive with a good football mentality, but seems slow at times... should benefit with more experience... has great power for a C, but I question his athleticism... I see him as an average starting NFL center for next year
RG - Greg Jerman: former undrafted free agent... supposedly very smart as a player, and very hard-working... pretty aggressive, but not very powerful... somewhat limited athletically... even though he's physical, he's more of a finesse blocker who always gets in good position to get the job done (actually reminds me a little of Richie Incognito - the LT for Nebraska last year)... from a talent-only standpoint, he's marginal as a starter, but combine with his great smarts, har-work, and intangibles, he's adequate
RT - Vernon Carey: big and overpowering... has played both tackle and guard spots in college... actually has good feet and atleticism, especially considering his size... is a mauler-type as a run-blocker, and solid in pass protection... needs to keep his weight under control... if the general public consenus is right (which it often is in projecting rookie O-lineman), Carey should be a solid starter early on, and possibly and elite RT in the NFL
Projectd Backups:
LT, RT, LG, RG - Damion McIntosh: has started 37 games at LT over the past 3 years for one of the top rushing teams in the league in San Diego... quite heavy for an LT... doesn't seem to have a major weakness, and seems to be a better run-blocker that pass-blocker... I see him as an average starter, possibly better that average starter when fully healthy... seems like he could be a good OG... may possibly take Jerman's place when healthy, or may remain as the top backup definately at LT, and possibly all other G and T spots
RT, RG, C - John St. Clair: haven't really seen him play and don't really know much about him, except that he started 16 games for the Rams in 2002... was supposedly a liabilty in pass protection as i think he gave up a lot of sacks at RT... some say his most natural position is at C since that's what he played throughout college, but looks to be mainly a backup RT and RG for the Phins... seems like he'll be a solid backup
LG, C - Billy Yates: a big overachiver, who is undersized... smart, responsible, hard-working, and tough... undrafted out of Tex A&M (plyed with both McKinney and Whitley)... LG is his most natural position, but has also taken reps at C with the Phins... should make the roster and be a serviceable backup at LG and C
RG - Taylor Whitley: IMO, is very overrated... from what I've seen he has horrible athleticism, often overextends and lunges, bending at the waste, and is very heavy-footed... he is powerful, and is the poor man's mauler type... really his only position is RG... (reminds me a lot of Stephen Peterman, the rookie G from LSU - this is not a good thing cause I think Peterman is also extremely overrated and will be a bust: both are unathletic, one-dimensible inconsistent run-blockers with very little upside)... I think the Phins are just saying he's competing for the RG spot to give him confidence, and maybe partly just because he was a 3rd-round pick... IMO, at best he'll barely make the 53-man roster as the lsat O-lineman whether he deserves it or not... I doubt he'll be a Phin after this year though
Others:
C, RG, LG - Rex Hadnot: don't really know anything about him, except that he's a 6'2, 325, G from Houston... can play G and C, cnter being his 1st position... my guess is he'll make the practice squad, or take Whitley's spot on the roster
RG, LG - Tony Pape: I actually saw a good amount of him on TV this past year, as I like watching Michigan play, and cooincidently I often watched him specifically since I knew the Phins were looking to draft O-lineman in the 2004 draft... I think he's overrated to be honest and wasn't impressed... many projected him as a mid-round pick, but he fell to the 7th and I'm not surprised... seemed to have slow reactions as a tackle, isn't all that physical, and often seems off balance and lunges... doesn't really seem to have a significant strength as a player... will compete at G for the Phins, but I doubt he'll make the team... possibly the practice squad at best
Others competing: Brad Bedell, Eric Wilson, Shawn Lynch, Dan Goodspeed, Andy Wagstrom
Based on overall talent, the starting group should be at least better than average. Potentially, this entire group could be something very special for many years to come. Of course, though, that depends on health, chemistry, etc. But, this is definately an area of the team that Dolphin fans can look foward to both in the immediate future, and long-term future.
Projected Starters:
LT - Wade Smith: tons of potential, great feet, has the athleticism to always get in the proper position... suppossedly got significantly stronger over the offseason, which may help him in being more aggressive... adequate as a rookie and should continue to improve with valueable experience... I see him as solid starting LT for next year, and possibly an elite LT in the years following
LG - Jeno James: an all-around great player... tough, physical, smart, very hard worker... both young and well-experienced... a coach's dream and popular in the locker room
C - Seth McKinney: former 3rd-round pick... has good blood, as his brother Steve has been a solid starter at C for the pas few years... smart, fierce, hard-nosed player, who seems aggressive with a good football mentality, but seems slow at times... should benefit with more experience... has great power for a C, but I question his athleticism... I see him as an average starting NFL center for next year
RG - Greg Jerman: former undrafted free agent... supposedly very smart as a player, and very hard-working... pretty aggressive, but not very powerful... somewhat limited athletically... even though he's physical, he's more of a finesse blocker who always gets in good position to get the job done (actually reminds me a little of Richie Incognito - the LT for Nebraska last year)... from a talent-only standpoint, he's marginal as a starter, but combine with his great smarts, har-work, and intangibles, he's adequate
RT - Vernon Carey: big and overpowering... has played both tackle and guard spots in college... actually has good feet and atleticism, especially considering his size... is a mauler-type as a run-blocker, and solid in pass protection... needs to keep his weight under control... if the general public consenus is right (which it often is in projecting rookie O-lineman), Carey should be a solid starter early on, and possibly and elite RT in the NFL
Projectd Backups:
LT, RT, LG, RG - Damion McIntosh: has started 37 games at LT over the past 3 years for one of the top rushing teams in the league in San Diego... quite heavy for an LT... doesn't seem to have a major weakness, and seems to be a better run-blocker that pass-blocker... I see him as an average starter, possibly better that average starter when fully healthy... seems like he could be a good OG... may possibly take Jerman's place when healthy, or may remain as the top backup definately at LT, and possibly all other G and T spots
RT, RG, C - John St. Clair: haven't really seen him play and don't really know much about him, except that he started 16 games for the Rams in 2002... was supposedly a liabilty in pass protection as i think he gave up a lot of sacks at RT... some say his most natural position is at C since that's what he played throughout college, but looks to be mainly a backup RT and RG for the Phins... seems like he'll be a solid backup
LG, C - Billy Yates: a big overachiver, who is undersized... smart, responsible, hard-working, and tough... undrafted out of Tex A&M (plyed with both McKinney and Whitley)... LG is his most natural position, but has also taken reps at C with the Phins... should make the roster and be a serviceable backup at LG and C
RG - Taylor Whitley: IMO, is very overrated... from what I've seen he has horrible athleticism, often overextends and lunges, bending at the waste, and is very heavy-footed... he is powerful, and is the poor man's mauler type... really his only position is RG... (reminds me a lot of Stephen Peterman, the rookie G from LSU - this is not a good thing cause I think Peterman is also extremely overrated and will be a bust: both are unathletic, one-dimensible inconsistent run-blockers with very little upside)... I think the Phins are just saying he's competing for the RG spot to give him confidence, and maybe partly just because he was a 3rd-round pick... IMO, at best he'll barely make the 53-man roster as the lsat O-lineman whether he deserves it or not... I doubt he'll be a Phin after this year though
Others:
C, RG, LG - Rex Hadnot: don't really know anything about him, except that he's a 6'2, 325, G from Houston... can play G and C, cnter being his 1st position... my guess is he'll make the practice squad, or take Whitley's spot on the roster
RG, LG - Tony Pape: I actually saw a good amount of him on TV this past year, as I like watching Michigan play, and cooincidently I often watched him specifically since I knew the Phins were looking to draft O-lineman in the 2004 draft... I think he's overrated to be honest and wasn't impressed... many projected him as a mid-round pick, but he fell to the 7th and I'm not surprised... seemed to have slow reactions as a tackle, isn't all that physical, and often seems off balance and lunges... doesn't really seem to have a significant strength as a player... will compete at G for the Phins, but I doubt he'll make the team... possibly the practice squad at best
Others competing: Brad Bedell, Eric Wilson, Shawn Lynch, Dan Goodspeed, Andy Wagstrom
Based on overall talent, the starting group should be at least better than average. Potentially, this entire group could be something very special for many years to come. Of course, though, that depends on health, chemistry, etc. But, this is definately an area of the team that Dolphin fans can look foward to both in the immediate future, and long-term future.
NathanHunt
Fluff Girls are underpaid.
McKinney is ready. This kid has been chomping at the bit for the past two years. He has been given plenty of time to learn and should play like a young vet, not a rookie. He will suffer a small learning curve simply due to a full 16 game season.
My hat's off to RS. In the previous 2 drafts, he was not given a fair chance to draft young lineman EARLY. However, I think he drafted 2 gems in Smith and McKinney. Carey will eventually pan out, but will suffer from the rookie growing pains.
Jeno James was quite possibly the OL steal of FA. We paid him what we wanted and got a talented YOUNG OL. Kudos RS.
I personally think the thoughts we are built "to win now" are not completely true. The FA additions this year were about recouping previous bad drafts. Look at the ages of the guys we signed. They were rookies when we were piling up bad drafts. RS has to replace the talent from those drafts with same age stars in order to keep the team's age balance equal. Like it or not, we actually saw a rebuilding campaign for the offense. We were not built this year to win now, we were rebuilding to win in the future.
Again, we haven't even won the AFC East in how many years? You have to win your division before you can win the SuperBowl. RS rebuilt the O for the next 5 years, not to win now.
Next year's draft will probably see RS finally able to BEGIN picking by Best Player Available and not from need with our #1. Give Rick a few more drafts, then we'll be back on track.
My hat's off to RS. In the previous 2 drafts, he was not given a fair chance to draft young lineman EARLY. However, I think he drafted 2 gems in Smith and McKinney. Carey will eventually pan out, but will suffer from the rookie growing pains.
Jeno James was quite possibly the OL steal of FA. We paid him what we wanted and got a talented YOUNG OL. Kudos RS.
I personally think the thoughts we are built "to win now" are not completely true. The FA additions this year were about recouping previous bad drafts. Look at the ages of the guys we signed. They were rookies when we were piling up bad drafts. RS has to replace the talent from those drafts with same age stars in order to keep the team's age balance equal. Like it or not, we actually saw a rebuilding campaign for the offense. We were not built this year to win now, we were rebuilding to win in the future.
Again, we haven't even won the AFC East in how many years? You have to win your division before you can win the SuperBowl. RS rebuilt the O for the next 5 years, not to win now.
Next year's draft will probably see RS finally able to BEGIN picking by Best Player Available and not from need with our #1. Give Rick a few more drafts, then we'll be back on track.