OL Consideration

[MadDawg020]

It's pretty clear that all of us agree that OL is our biggest priority. But I can't help thinking that I'm sort of being hypocritical in this sense:

I'm willing to believe that Feeley can be a great starter for us next season in large part because of the improvement he showed over this year, particularly in his last couple games. Yet, the OL improved dramatically over the last few games as well...heck, we put up a lot of rushing yards on the Ravens!!

I think we may be too quick to dismiss some of the talent on our roster at OL because it wasn't showcased very well this season. I'm mainly talking about McIntosh. Obviously I don't have the coaches tapes, but it seemed to me that as he recovered from his injury throughout the season, he steadily progressed and was still not at his full potential. I think if we can land a top-flight LT in FA at a REASONABLE price, then by all means do it. But maybe this guy deserves another shot.

McKinney, at the beginning of the season, was proclaimed to be ready for the starting role after grooming him for 2 years. Did all of his progress and talent disappear in one year? I don't think so...I think Tony Wise and all of Wanny's offensive goons just had no idea how to coach and run a proper blocking scheme.

We need to look no further in providing evidence for coaching deficiencies than Jeno James. This guy was a beast in Carolina and helped Stephen Davis tremendously...did he lose all of his talent all of a sudden too when he came to the Fins?

Bottom line is that Saban's got a VERY VERY DIFFICULT job of evaluating the talent on this team, particularly the O-line, because of the horrible coaching they were under last season. And that includes Vernon Carey, who hardly even played and so will be even tougher to evaluate!! I will be very interested to see what Saban does...and if he decides to stick with one or two of these guys that we are automatically dismissing as a lack of talent (which could easily be bad coaching), I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

If Saban goes 4-3 I believe defensive line should be the biggest priority. If Saban does go 3-4 than linebacker/defensive ends should be his biggest priority

 

[ohall]

No not everyone thinks OL is our biggest need/priority.

Some of us think the OL overall talent level on the OL is good, they simply had bad coaching, a poor offensive philosophy and have not played long enough with each other.

 

[miamirw]

Yet, the OL improved dramatically over the last few games as well...heck, we put up a lot of rushing yards on the Ravens!!

Yes they improved, but you're talking about FIVE positions, not one and they all changed at different rates. We still need a dominant player at the LT spot. Someone that we can put there and forget about the rest of the game and not worry about getting our QB killed from a blindside hit. MCintosh should be better next year with a full offseason to heal the ankle that made him only 90 percent this year. However I see him as a great first back up at both tackle spots.

Jeno James has been good all year IMO. He's just been coached by one of the worst OL coaches in the league. How else can you explain the difference in play from Carolina to Miami for James. He will be fine. I'm already pencilling him in as a starter next year and moving on along with Carey at RT. It's the other three spots that I'm concerned about.

St. Clair has been above average consistently, but he's as good as he's going to get and will never be dominant. He also strikes me as a good back up lineman. McKinney and Hadnot are the two that really upped their play the last four games. I would like to see those two in the mix for a starting job next year, but they should have to earn it. I want to bring in a rookie G and Center at least to compete with those two and up their play. I would like to draft an LT high also, but if we can't trade down, that ain't happenin' so maybe we pick up the high caliber free agent (Samuels/Jones/Thomas/Pace) for that spot. Regardless, LT, RG and C must be injected with more talent.

I don't want to throw our current guys out with the bathwater. We have good linemen now that can be solid backups and starters in a pinch.

As for Carey, in the games I saw, he looked promising. He didn't make huge mistakes and he blocked decently. I like his chances for starting next year with a full TC under his belt and lots of work in the weight room.

 

[MadDawg020]

Regardless, LT, RG and C must be injected with more talent.

I wonder how much we can actually afford to put into our O-line with our cap and the other needs we have to address. For me, the two guys I am targetting in the draft are:

Elton Brown, G
Antajj Hawthorne, DT

If we could get those two guys, I would be ecstatic.

 

[fishypete]

I wouldn't over-look this guy;

MICHAEL MUNOZ
Offensive Tackle
Tennessee
Senior
6'6 | 310 | 5.20*

HOME TOWN: Mason, OH
HIGH SCHOOL: Cincinnati Moeller

*unofficial 40 time, AP Photo
QUICK STRENGTHS: Technique, strength, footwork
QUICK WEAKNESSES: Injuries
NFL COMPARISONS: Most NFL right tackles aren't as athletic as Brown, but one that is is Seattle Seahawk Chris Terry. Also similar in many aspects to Cincinnati Bengal Willie Anderson.
The son of Hall of Fame offensive tackle Anthony Munoz, Michael was a high school star and top recruit. He started as a true freshman and sophomore for Tennessee but tore his ACL his sophomore season. He returned for his junior season and showed no ill effects earning 2nd team All-SEC honors.

Came back from injury well and picked up where he left off. Munoz has just about everything you look for in an offensive tackle. He's fundamentally sound, he's strong enough to overpower defenders and quick enough to stay with them. Sets up nicely off the snap of the ball and establishes a nice base with hands up. Once he locks on to a defender, he will almost always win the battle because of his strength. As a pass blocker, he shows nice feet and is rarely off balance or in bad position. Doesn't have the quickest feet in the class but they're generally good enough to get him where he needs to be. Quicker rushers can get around him but he recovers well and usually at least shoves them out of the way. As a run blocker, he is very powerful straight ahead. Uses his hands well to lock on and drive defenders back and finishes his blocks very well. Is better as a pass blocker and as a result, will likely be an NFL left tackle. The only knock would be the injury question but he pretty much has shown that he's healthy.

Munoz has the potential to be a great tackle. He rarely makes a mistake and his ability to protect his QB's blindside throughout his career will earn him a high selection. Provided he's healthy, Munoz is ready to start as a rookie for an NFL team. However, the injury concerns will likely

 

[miamirw]

For me, the two guys I am targetting in the draft are:

Elton Brown, G
Antajj Hawthorne, DT

If we could get those two guys, I would be ecstatic.

Me too. I'd add Ben Wilkerson to that list. Those three would really make a nice draft IMO.

If we can find a trading partner (or two), we could easily make that happen.

Brown, IMO the best OLineman poundfor pound in the draft, should be around late first early second. Ditto Anttaj. Wilkerson could go anywhere from round 1 to round 3 depending on how the injury affects team's ability to assess his talent at the combine. You can bet Saban knows what he's getting with Wiklekerson.

 

[MadDawg020]

I wouldn't over-look this guy;

MICHAEL MUNOZ
Offensive Tackle
Tennessee
Senior
6'6 | 310 | 5.20*

HOME TOWN: Mason, OH
HIGH SCHOOL: Cincinnati Moeller

*unofficial 40 time, AP Photo
QUICK STRENGTHS: Technique, strength, footwork
QUICK WEAKNESSES: Injuries
NFL COMPARISONS: Most NFL right tackles aren't as athletic as Brown, but one that is is Seattle Seahawk Chris Terry. Also similar in many aspects to Cincinnati Bengal Willie Anderson.
The son of Hall of Fame offensive tackle Anthony Munoz, Michael was a high school star and top recruit. He started as a true freshman and sophomore for Tennessee but tore his ACL his sophomore season. He returned for his junior season and showed no ill effects earning 2nd team All-SEC honors.

Came back from injury well and picked up where he left off. Munoz has just about everything you look for in an offensive tackle. He's fundamentally sound, he's strong enough to overpower defenders and quick enough to stay with them. Sets up nicely off the snap of the ball and establishes a nice base with hands up. Once he locks on to a defender, he will almost always win the battle because of his strength. As a pass blocker, he shows nice feet and is rarely off balance or in bad position. Doesn't have the quickest feet in the class but they're generally good enough to get him where he needs to be. Quicker rushers can get around him but he recovers well and usually at least shoves them out of the way. As a run blocker, he is very powerful straight ahead. Uses his hands well to lock on and drive defenders back and finishes his blocks very well. Is better as a pass blocker and as a result, will likely be an NFL left tackle. The only knock would be the injury question but he pretty much has shown that he's healthy.

Munoz has the potential to be a great tackle. He rarely makes a mistake and his ability to protect his QB's blindside throughout his career will earn him a high selection. Provided he's healthy, Munoz is ready to start as a rookie for an NFL team. However, the injury concerns will likely

That's the best report on Munoz I have seen. Here's what I found.

Strengths: Shows tremendous technique...Has great bloodlines...Is a team leader and great character player...Mature...Has good size and the frame to still get bigger...Is very experienced...Does all the little things and knows every trick in the book.Weaknesses: Durability is a major question mark...Has not developed into the dominating player most were expecting...May not have the killer instinct that all of the great ones possess...Not very explosive...Plays too high at times...May not have the athleticism and physical tools to handle the left tackle position in the pros.Notes: Son of Hall of Famer Anthony Munoz, one of the best NFL ofensive tackles of all time...Obviously he isn't the player his dad was but he has the tools to enjoy a fine career in the NFL...Health and durability will play a key role in where he is drafted.

 

[FinaticalOne]

It's pretty clear that all of us agree that OL is our biggest priority. But I can't help thinking that I'm sort of being hypocritical in this sense:

I'm willing to believe that Feeley can be a great starter for us next season in large part because of the improvement he showed over this year, particularly in his last couple games. Yet, the OL improved dramatically over the last few games as well...heck, we put up a lot of rushing yards on the Ravens!!

I think we may be too quick to dismiss some of the talent on our roster at OL because it wasn't showcased very well this season. I'm mainly talking about McIntosh. Obviously I don't have the coaches tapes, but it seemed to me that as he recovered from his injury throughout the season, he steadily progressed and was still not at his full potential. I think if we can land a top-flight LT in FA at a REASONABLE price, then by all means do it. But maybe this guy deserves another shot.

McKinney, at the beginning of the season, was proclaimed to be ready for the starting role after grooming him for 2 years. Did all of his progress and talent disappear in one year? I don't think so...I think Tony Wise and all of Wanny's offensive goons just had no idea how to coach and run a proper blocking scheme.

We need to look no further in providing evidence for coaching deficiencies than Jeno James. This guy was a beast in Carolina and helped Stephen Davis tremendously...did he lose all of his talent all of a sudden too when he came to the Fins?

Bottom line is that Saban's got a VERY VERY DIFFICULT job of evaluating the talent on this team, particularly the O-line, because of the horrible coaching they were under last season. And that includes Vernon Carey, who hardly even played and so will be even tougher to evaluate!! I will be very interested to see what Saban does...and if he decides to stick with one or two of these guys that we are automatically dismissing as a lack of talent (which could easily be bad coaching), I wouldn't be surprised.

Hey this is a good post. Your thoughts on this matter are very reasonable. It could be bad coaching on the line that hurt the o-line. I'll go as far as saying McIntosh played better towards the end which should merit the chance to compete for a starting job next season.

But I am serious about Seth McKinney being replaced, and I will not budge on that matter. He can not hold up on blocks in one-on-one situations. And I've seen him blow double-team assignments as well. It was very common seeing get driven back four yards deep in the backfield by a defensive tackle. We have to replace him.

My new suggestion at the center position is:

David Baas of Michigan. I hear Baas is a nasty SOB, and we need more guys like that on the line. Or we can sign Baltimore's FA center Casey Rabach to replace McKinney. I'll be happy with either one.

 

[tay0365]

If Saban goes 4-3 I believe defensive line should be the biggest priority. If Saban does go 3-4 than linebacker/defensive ends should be his biggest priority

I understand why you would like us to take a defensive player (and more specific on the D-line) before any other, but Imo in order to be a competitive team next year, we need to get a premium RB, a punishing big back that will get more people closer to the line, and allow us to throw deeper.

On the D-line we will need help, Bowens might be damaged goods or close to it at this point, but I still think he has at least one more solid to above average year in him. We need to get a RB, if we end up getting a RB in Free agency, then I agree we should go after the best D-tackle out there.

 

[Shouright]

I'd like to try McIntosh at RT and Carey at RG. LT is a really important position, so I'd like a premier guy there. Plus, I think RT is a more natural position for McIntosh because less footwork and quickness are required. I think they should've tried him there this year too, with Wade Smith at LT, just to see how he did there. If he can work out at RT, then I think all we need is a LT and C on the line.

 

[Gladsadmad]

If I had to guess what Saban will do with the O-line I would say that he would take measures to have insurance in case McKinney or McIntosh don't work out. He would be smart to add some competition to at least give those guys a shot to redeem themselves. Heck, maybe Carey or McIntosh will flourish with the proper teaching.

 

[DoLpHiNz34]

It's pretty clear that all of us agree that OL is our biggest priority. But I can't help thinking that I'm sort of being hypocritical in this sense:

I'm willing to believe that Feeley can be a great starter for us next season in large part because of the improvement he showed over this year, particularly in his last couple games. Yet, the OL improved dramatically over the last few games as well...heck, we put up a lot of rushing yards on the Ravens!!

I think we may be too quick to dismiss some of the talent on our roster at OL because it wasn't showcased very well this season. I'm mainly talking about McIntosh. Obviously I don't have the coaches tapes, but it seemed to me that as he recovered from his injury throughout the season, he steadily progressed and was still not at his full potential. I think if we can land a top-flight LT in FA at a REASONABLE price, then by all means do it. But maybe this guy deserves another shot.

McKinney, at the beginning of the season, was proclaimed to be ready for the starting role after grooming him for 2 years. Did all of his progress and talent disappear in one year? I don't think so...I think Tony Wise and all of Wanny's offensive goons just had no idea how to coach and run a proper blocking scheme.

We need to look no further in providing evidence for coaching deficiencies than Jeno James. This guy was a beast in Carolina and helped Stephen Davis tremendously...did he lose all of his talent all of a sudden too when he came to the Fins?

Bottom line is that Saban's got a VERY VERY DIFFICULT job of evaluating the talent on this team, particularly the O-line, because of the horrible coaching they were under last season. And that includes Vernon Carey, who hardly even played and so will be even tougher to evaluate!! I will be very interested to see what Saban does...and if he decides to stick with one or two of these guys that we are automatically dismissing as a lack of talent (which could easily be bad coaching), I wouldn't be surprised.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. I posted this in another thread and think it kind of goes hand in hand with what you're saying...

"We definately need some vets to come in and mentor some of these guys. Our line stinks right now but they are very very young. Generally, linemen develop by their 3rd year (from what coaches say and career stats etc). We still don't really know what we have.

The average age of our oline is 24.4 yrs old and going into next season the average experience is 3.25 yrs. The oldest guys are James(28), McIntosh(27), St. Clair(26),McKinney(25), and Eric Wilson(26). I don't know who Eric Wilson is but he's on the roster. Every one else is less than 24. That's pretty good if some of these guys pan out.

Drafting another guy wouldn't be the best option for us, IMO. Unless there is an absolutely dominant LT. Otherwise, I'd pass."

 

[KB21]

No not everyone thinks OL is our biggest need/priority.

Some of us think the OL overall talent level on the OL is good, they simply had bad coaching, a poor offensive philosophy and have not played long enough with each other.

Not just that. A strong argument can be made that the majority of the good young talent on the team is actually on the offensive side of the ball. Ethan Skolnick made this arguement recently, and it was very compelling.

 

[DoLpHiNz34]

Not just that. A strong argument can be made that the majority of the good young talent on the team is actually on the offensive side of the ball. Ethan Skolnick made this arguement recently, and it was very compelling.

Bates said pretty much the same thing just a few days ago.