Patriots/ Welker Update

[satz]

1) Nope patriots have won by singing FA that fit their system and not based on their salary.Then they could have gone cheaper. They value FA on performace not their salary.
2)You are confusing salary cap number and money spend my friend.signing bonus is prorated over the entire contract.His cap number hit was 5.2% of the buffalo cap compared to colvin`s 5.7% of cap.
3)The patriots cap room - please explain the big cap room they carried? 76 cents last year.
$397,907 OVER the cap -2001
$2.69 million Under the cap - 2002
$359,412 OVER the cap 2003
$2,632,529 UNDER the cap -2004
$38,500 under the cap -2005
under the cap by just 76 cents - 2006
4)You are forgetting the comp picks for adam,givens,willie mac and they got 1 more for gorin trade from arizona.Not including the
2 - 1st pick
1 - Round 3
1 - Round 4
1 - Round 5
1 - Rd 6
-- without walker 2nd and 7th
6 picks + 1 Goin trade in rd 6 + 3 comp picks = 10 picks.

 

[nyjunc]

They ahve signed lower priced FAs for the most part, the only one they signed to any type of high bonus was a YOUNG Colvin and his bonus was not outrageous like Thomas'.

Provide the links for those cap #s, all we have heard about in the past is how well the pats managed their cap and to have only hunndreds of thousands in room is not managint he cap well. Please provde documentation.

Colvin got $6 mil in guaranteed money, Spikes got $9 mil in guaranteed money. 5.2% is lower than 5.7% though, right?

 

[satz]

www.patscap.com

also cap management is misunderstood by most.they think it carries over but truth it does not.Also having more cap room is also wrong.what cap management is put a good team and spending up to the cap and reducing residual effect.

49s have 50 million cap room and did not make it to the playoff - bad cap managment.colts - upto the cap - win the SB - good cap managment.

Also,spending real money in such way to have less cap hit is also cap managment. takeo spikes had a better deal from a cap point of view but thomas has a low cap hit so its better.A gain real money management to maximize cap room is critical.

patriots started 2006 with 22 million cap room and ended with 76 cents
in 2007 same they are starting with 30 million and i hope they finish with less than 2-3million.[again cap managment].But next year the cap number hit of seymour ,brady and koppen go down drastically and release more cap room to sign more fA.

 

[nyjunc]

www.patscap.com

also cap management is misunderstood by most.they think it carries over but truth it does not.Also having more cap room is also wrong.what cap management is put a good team and spending up to the cap and reducing residual effect.

49s have 50 million cap room and did not make it to the playoff - bad cap managment.colts - upto the cap - win the SB - good cap managment.

Also,spending real money in such way to have less cap hit is also cap managment. takeo spikes had a better deal from a cap point of view but thomas has a low cap hit so its better.A gain real money management to maximize cap room is critical.

patriots started 2006 with 22 million cap room and ended with 76 cents
in 2007 same they are starting with 30 million and i hope they finish with less than 2-3million.[again cap managment].But next year the cap number hit of seymour ,brady and koppen go down drastically and release more cap room to sign more fA.

Thank you, I stand corrected on the cap room BUT that just tells me NE isn't as smart as I thought they were(in regards to signing hig priced FAs) and it still doesn't change the way they built and maintained a Championship team. I still feel good about NE going the redskin route this offseason. We'll see what happens, obviously they'll be really good as long as #12 is there but I am happy they are spending like crazy. I know the other way works and so far teams that overspend have shown it hasn't worked so hopefully that trend continues.

 

[patriotspride]

Thank you, I stand corrected on the cap room BUT that just tells me NE isn't as smart as I thought they were(in regards to signing hig priced FAs) and it still doesn't change the way they built and maintained a Championship team. I still feel good about NE going the redskin route this offseason. We'll see what happens, obviously they'll be really good as long as #12 is there but I am happy they are spending like crazy. I know the other way works and so far teams that overspend have shown it hasn't worked so hopefully that trend continues.

sounds like spin to me

 

[nyjunc]

sounds like spin to me

Spin is what the pats fasn are doing, the last 6 years or so they have crowed about how they don't overpay for FAs and how they spend wisely and that's why they have eben succesful but now that they go the snyder route that's the correct way- which is it? or is it just that every move the pats make is great regardless of what they do?

 

[Tailgater]

They must have been triple teaming him in Miami where he had 1 rec for -1 yards. In 4 career games he has had ONE good game against NE.

Nope. They only double-teamed him.

"After making nine catches in a game against the Patriots in October, Welker said he was double-teamed on almost every snap when the teams met again in December. It was the first time he had been double-teamed that much over his three-year career, and was also a reflection of the Patriots' respect for him."

If he can cause other teams to commit double coverage to stop him, he's well worth it.

I don't like giving up picks, but Welker will produce iimmediately, while it's rare a 2nd rd pick, never mind a late 2nd rd pick, does much of anything outside of special team duties.

THe Pats will pick up an additional 2-3 comp picks, maybe as high as the 4th rd. I still hate giving up picks as a rule, but my guess is Welker will perform closer to what Dillon gave them for a 2nd, rather than what they got using a 2nd for Duane Starks...yeech!

 

[Tailgater]

Spin is what the pats fasn are doing, the last 6 years or so they have crowed about how they don't overpay for FAs and how they spend wisely and that's why they have eben succesful but now that they go the snyder route that's the correct way- which is it? or is it just that every move the pats make is great regardless of what they do?

In what way are the Pats acting 'snyderish'? By giving upfront money to a FA?

Pat fans may have spouted past activity as gospel. Thats what the Pats have done, and it's been successful. In 2005 & 2006 they used the same philosophy. They didn't get to the SB. Is that why they've 'changed' their philosophy? Maybe. The near future will show the Pats did not overpay for any of their pickups, at least in terms of cash or cap hits. (Is it true the Jets gave a JAG backup DE 6M guaranteed? Makes the Welker deal look reasonable to me:D).

Perhaps it's a matter of who was available when and at what position.

Their need at LB has been gaining critical mass since 2003. AT is the perfect fit at this time for the gap in the defense, better than any other possible choice over the past 3 years, by FAR. The money is a drop in their cap bucket, now and in the future.

They tried the draft for wr last year. They may again this year. To ensure they could get a guy who will no doubt have success with Brady and in this offense, they gave up picks to do so. No worries about if the rookie will adjust to the NFL, hit the rookie wall, etc.

They still have about 13M under the cap. Hope to see them get Samuel extended, but i doubt thats in their plans or Samuels. Most I hope for is he signs the tag and plays out the year, or signs and gets traded for a pick or 2. Maybe thats where they plan on recouping the 2nd used on Welker?

 

[satz]

Again , as i said a few post back ...the cap number jumped 27% due the change in CBA and goes back to the 6% avg grown from next year.As these cap money cannot be carried over a organisation should use this influx of money to sign a signing bonus front laden contracts.

If you have extra money for a year which cannot be carried over would prefer to spend it or loss it for nothing ?

 

[Mike13]

I don't see why they paid so much to Sammy Morris.

 

[nyjunc]

Nope. They only double-teamed him.

"After making nine catches in a game against the Patriots in October, Welker said he was double-teamed on almost every snap when the teams met again in December. It was the first time he had been double-teamed that much over his three-year career, and was also a reflection of the Patriots' respect for him."

If he can cause other teams to commit double coverage to stop him, he's well worth it.

I don't like giving up picks, but Welker will produce iimmediately, while it's rare a 2nd rd pick, never mind a late 2nd rd pick, does much of anything outside of special team duties.

THe Pats will pick up an additional 2-3 comp picks, maybe as high as the 4th rd. I still hate giving up picks as a rule, but my guess is Welker will perform closer to what Dillon gave them for a 2nd, rather than what they got using a 2nd for Duane Starks...yeech!

1 rec, -1 yards and I highl doubt NE was double teaming him all game despite what HE said.

In what way are the Pats acting 'snyderish'? By giving upfront money to a FA?

Overpaying for a good not great Lb and severely overpaying for a #3 WR- that's classic snyder.

(Is it true the Jets gave a JAG backup DE 6M guaranteed? Makes the Welker deal look reasonable to me).

yep, we overpaid a little for Coleman but I'd rather overpay at $6 mil than $22 for Thomas and $10 for Welker.

They still have about 13M under the cap. Hope to see them get Samuel extended

Don't hold your breath, after they wouldn't sing a top corner who has been apart of their Championship past you think he'll settle for anything less than what Clements and Thomas got?

 

[Tailgater]

Right. He lied about being doubled. That explains it! BB is just an idiot, as you suspected all along, thwoing away millions on jag.

Psst. closer....The Pats are paying for PRODUCTION, known entities. Maybe even paying...shudder...too much. Again, from the little I've seen so far, that isn't true either. Deon Grant gets 30m, 13M up front?!? JAG guards getting 49M, w/ 10+M upfront? AT is a deal.

What is your projection for Welker with the Pats this year? What number could begin to justify the huge 3M cap hit, right? Not 50 rec? 60? 70?

I'll go out on a limb on Coleman and say he may get 4 sacks, playing about 25%-30% of the defensive snaps. Limited player that will take awhile to get used to the Jets scheme. May have more value in yr 2, may not. At best, becomes another Greg Spires.

 

[CCMiamiDolphins]

Any pics of Welker with a Patriots jersey?

 

[nyjunc]

Right. He lied about being doubled. That explains it! BB is just an idiot, as you suspected all along, thwoing away millions on jag.

Psst. closer....The Pats are paying for PRODUCTION, known entities. Maybe even paying...shudder...too much. Again, from the little I've seen so far, that isn't true either. Deon Grant gets 30m, 13M up front?!? JAG guards getting 49M, w/ 10+M upfront? AT is a deal.

What is your projection for Welker with the Pats this year? What number could begin to justify the huge 3M cap hit, right? Not 50 rec? 60? 70?

I'll go out on a limb on Coleman and say he may get 4 sacks, playing about 25%-30% of the defensive snaps. Limited player that will take awhile to get used to the Jets scheme. May have more value in yr 2, may not. At best, becomes another Greg Spires.

The pats are paying for production? themn explain giving up a 2nd and 7th rd pick plus $10 mil guaranteed for Wes Welker? What has he done in this league to warrant that compensation?

Why would NE doub;e Welker when he's Miami's 3rd best WR? he had 1 decent game against them and all of a sudden they are gameplanning for him? Come on. I am sure NE was concerned w/ jerricho Cotchery after he had a bg agme against them in Week 2 then he went out and had a very good game at NE then in the playoffs had a 100 yd receiving game. I am 100% sure Ne was more worried about Jerricho Cotchery and yet he kept producing against NE while Wes after 1 good game in his first 3 was held to 1 rec for -1 yds in his next game against NE.

 

[Questfor31]

I can't imagine you guys are all that choked up about losing Wes Welker to NE for a ridiculously lucrative contract. Why NE is willing to pay big dollars for an average wide receiver is beyond me.