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Slimm's 2019 Quarterbacks (underclassman)

Tyree Jackson reminds me a little bit of a mix between Brock Osweiler and Byron Leftwich. He's got the arm strength of a Leftwich, but also his wind up that you can time with a sun dial. Has the sloppy mechanics and cumbersome movements throwing the football of Osweiler.

Big time ball security issues when he runs with the football. I feel like his ceiling is a mid rounder whether it's this year, next year, Buffalo or somewhere else.
 
One thing to keep in mind about the Dolphins drafting Kyler Murray is the relatively immediate result in selecting him. He'll either get destroyed by defenses or he becomes a superstar.
No one would have to wait seven years to make a decision. Since he already possesses the skills from the get go, there'll be less and sometimes unjustified blame placed on other units of the team. Coaches wouldn't have to worry about teaching him the basics. The oline wouldn't be blamed so much for his lack of pocket presence. Receivers wouldn't be criticized for lacking the height or speed to catch up to an overthrown ball because the QB hasn't yet develop the touch or the deep ball.

The flip side of this is, assuming he goes in round 1 and wants to be financially secure immediately, then football's the way to go. We'll know in a year or two if he can physically play in the NFL. Either he can't - to which he can retire in less than 3 years having made more than he would have - and go back to baseball or he becomes a legitimate franchise QB.
 
I know it’s really, really early in these 2 prospects, but what are the big 3s thoughts on Dylan McCaffrey from Michigan and Taulia Tagovailoa, Tua’s little bro?
 
I recently watched 3 games of Stidham from last year and only then it occurred to me how much better he is as a passer than a runner. That offense has him thinking he's some elusive, 4.4 athlete running against SEC defenses. He should learn that he's not a dual-threat before he gets to the league since he also has this bad habit of not keeping his eyes downfield once he decides to tuck it and run.

And I know he was getting trashed by this board a while back for failing in important games but he beat Georgia and Alabama last year. Even the game against UCF, he fought back. After the mistakes he made early and his team being down, he fought back and they led at one point. After being down again, they came close to tying the game if not for a stupid mistake by him. The guy battles, which is way more than I can say for many qbs in the league.

He needs seasoning, sure, but I can easily see a coach like Belichick mold him into a Matt Ryan type player.

I'm saying all this - about a qb no one seems to care for - in part because of the similar tools he shares with Lock. While Lock is getting more hype, what I see is a true qb in Stidham while the other only plays the position because family and friends said so.
 
looks like haskins is coming out and will be the top guy. im just not sure he is ready. I like what he does, but only one year scares me
 
sinPHIN said:
looks like haskins is coming out and will be the top guy. im just not sure he is ready. I like what he does, but only one year scares me
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I don't see too many issues in his game, the Rose bowl was probably the worst I've seen him play since Purdue and he still showed enough to warrant him coming out this year. Financially it makes all the sense in the world to him and non whatsover to return for another year. I would be on board if we were super aggressive and moved up for the kid.
 
Huskies are one of the top 5 or 6 passing defenses in the country in my opinion. The backups to the backups are NFL prospects in that secondary. Rose Bowl was always going to be a really good test for Haskins, thought he played pretty well.

Furthermore, his right tackle is one of the worst offensive lineman I've ever seen - reminds me a lot of Roderick Johnson coming out of Florida St. NFL scouts hyped that kid up as a 1st round prospect for 2 years. They all had to be on some of Chris Foerster's drugs.
 
Maybe this is just the wrong way to go about it but I struggle with what Dwayne Haskins does that really hurts defenses. He throws with good timing and anticipation, and gets the ball out quickly. That will hurt a defense if you're consistent with your execution (accuracy), which he is. But I don't know that it's ever really been enough to be among the best in the world at one of the hardest things to do in sports.

I guess he's young and still developing, but at this point I feel like I should have seen the flashes of brilliance. When it comes to his feet, pocket movement, handling of pressure, handling of the blitz, I don't get flashes of brilliance, I get flashes of competence. That's different. He's not got the arm others do.

To me a great quarterback has to have a pile of weapons he can use to hurt a defense, and if there are enough of them, and the ones they have are deadly enough, they can make it at the next level.

Whether it's the height to be great at throwing into certain areas of the defense, the heft and strength to be brutally physical and hard to sack, unerring accuracy, showing the ball on play fakes, big hands and willingness to use the pump fake, the stamina and willingness to run out boot fakes on zone runs, willingness to be physical and block when the ball reverses, getting the head around quickly off play-action, the high caliber arm to make the defense cover every blade of grass, awareness and functional range while rolling right, awareness and functional range while rolling left, ultra-quick release, mastery of over a range of throws including the deep ball, the fade, throws that have to get up and down, the ability to be intelligent about velocity on different throws, the ability to be intelligent about ball location on different throws, willingness and ability to execute throwaways under duress, eye discipline and tendency to look off defenders, quick feet during the drop, extremely active feet and natural pocket movement during the rush, uncanny sense and manipulation of passing lanes, uncanny sense and avoidance of the rush, ability to maintain concentration and accuracy with pressure at your side, at your face, or at your feet, straight up ability to make guys miss, agility, spatial awareness, the pure speed to outrun defenders in order to get clearance, ball carrying skills, ability to protect yourself and avoid damaging blows, consistency of communication, consistency and speed in the recognition of blitzes, the athleticism, arm functionality, and cool head to buy yourself time and passing lanes under pressure in order to handle those blitzes, the aggressiveness to test defenses and pick on weak defenders, the total recall to aid you in predicting and taking advantage of defensive tendencies, getting the ball out of your hands quickly, situational awareness, game management, the stamina and focus to execute at the end of halves and in hurry situations.

There's obviously a lot here, and I probably haven't covered half of it. The point is, in order to be a consistent high performer in the NFL at the QB position, you've got to be able to light up the above list like a Christmas tree, and not just be competent in a wide range of these things, but be exceptional at them. Not all of them, but enough of them.

When I stack up all of Dwayne Haskins's weapons, I'm not sure I've got enough to cover the costs of being a consistent high performer at the next level, and I'm not sure I see enough traits to say that he'll grow into mastery over a bunch of those aspects of the game.

But he's a good prospect and if you need a QB then you could do way worse than taking him. You'll just have to manage him, teach him, have him grow into competence over a very wide range of these details, and then run a system with the sort of talent that makes it work. Sort of like Andy Dalton.
 
ckparrothead said:
Maybe this is just the wrong way to go about it but I struggle with what Dwayne Haskins does that really hurts defenses. He throws with good timing and anticipation, and gets the ball out quickly. That will hurt a defense if you're consistent with your execution (accuracy), which he is. But I don't know that it's ever really been enough to be among the best in the world at one of the hardest things to do in sports.

I guess he's young and still developing, but at this point I feel like I should have seen the flashes of brilliance. When it comes to his feet, pocket movement, handling of pressure, handling of the blitz, I don't get flashes of brilliance, I get flashes of competence. That's different. He's not got the arm others do.

To me a great quarterback has to have a pile of weapons he can use to hurt a defense, and if there are enough of them, and the ones they have are deadly enough, they can make it at the next level.

Whether it's the height to be great at throwing into certain areas of the defense, the heft and strength to be brutally physical and hard to sack, unerring accuracy, showing the ball on play fakes, big hands and willingness to use the pump fake, the stamina and willingness to run out boot fakes on zone runs, willingness to be physical and block when the ball reverses, getting the head around quickly off play-action, the high caliber arm to make the defense cover every blade of grass, awareness and functional range while rolling right, awareness and functional range while rolling left, ultra-quick release, mastery of over a range of throws including the deep ball, the fade, throws that have to get up and down, the ability to be intelligent about velocity on different throws, the ability to be intelligent about ball location on different throws, willingness and ability to execute throwaways under duress, eye discipline and tendency to look off defenders, quick feet during the drop, extremely active feet and natural pocket movement during the rush, uncanny sense and manipulation of passing lanes, uncanny sense and avoidance of the rush, ability to maintain concentration and accuracy with pressure at your side, at your face, or at your feet, straight up ability to make guys miss, agility, spatial awareness, the pure speed to outrun defenders in order to get clearance, ball carrying skills, ability to protect yourself and avoid damaging blows, consistency of communication, consistency and speed in the recognition of blitzes, the athleticism, arm functionality, and cool head to buy yourself time and passing lanes under pressure in order to handle those blitzes, the aggressiveness to test defenses and pick on weak defenders, the total recall to aid you in predicting and taking advantage of defensive tendencies, getting the ball out of your hands quickly, situational awareness, game management, the stamina and focus to execute at the end of halves and in hurry situations.

There's obviously a lot here, and I probably haven't covered half of it. The point is, in order to be a consistent high performer in the NFL at the QB position, you've got to be able to light up the above list like a Christmas tree, and not just be competent in a wide range of these things, but be exceptional at them. Not all of them, but enough of them.

When I stack up all of Dwayne Haskins's weapons, I'm not sure I've got enough to cover the costs of being a consistent high performer at the next level, and I'm not sure I see enough traits to say that he'll grow into mastery over a bunch of those aspects of the game.

But he's a good prospect and if you need a QB then you could do way worse than taking him. You'll just have to manage him, teach him, have him grow into competence over a very wide range of these details, and then run a system with the sort of talent that makes it work. Sort of like Andy Dalton.
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Think he's closer to Goff than Dalton.
 
ckparrothead said:
I think there are tools in Jared Goff's tool kit, important ones, that Dwayne Haskins will never have.
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Haskins has great touch, ball placement, and a natural ability to vary his trajectory. He projects as a guy who will excel in a favorable situation and struggle to make something out of nothing/little. Goff has more juice in his arm, but the net affect is similar imo. Had a 1st (not Top 10) on Goff and will probably have the same on Haskins.
 
One way I look at it is he hasn't really done anything to show you that you shouldn't take a chance on him. Sure, there are the questions you have in the pocket movement/mobility/beating the blitz dept, but his resume stacks up well still:

13-1
Wins over Michigan, Washington, northwestern (looked damn good in two of them)
His largest yardage totals were against some of his toughest competition

I believe he found himself as an athlete a little bit throughout the season too. Not sure how much is left, but he's certainly developed

Let's not forget LAST season he stepped in mid game and knocked out Michigan, in the big house as well

He's done plenty to show you he's 1) got game and 2) he's worth taking a shot on.

The arguments are valid and I have my doubts there too. But he's a 1 year starter, most of these guys aren't ready at this point either

FWIW, he didnt really have a meltdown game at any point this year that turned into a turnover fest full of bad decisions. Purdue exposed him w/ pressure, but he also was asked to throw what 73 times? Overall, he's been very smart w/ the football

If I'm in position, I'd take a chance on him. But I'm not moving heaven and earth to get him
 
For anyone interested, here’s a 12 min. video of Dwayne Haskins breaking down film of his performance against that team up north. It provides a little bit of insight on his football IQ and how he’s been coached up.

 
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Kyler Murray has told the A's that NFL teams have guaranteed that they'll pay back the money he would owe the A's if he declares for football.

Which is a de facto way of saying that his draft position is going to be high enough that his contract will more than pay back the A's contract.

The break-even level for GUARANTEES in a rookie draft contract vs the Oakland A's contract ($4.66 million guaranteed) last year was somewhere around the top of the 2nd round, picks 33 to 35.

The break-even level for SIGNING BONUS in a rookie draft contract vs the Oakland A's contract ($4.66 million guaranteed) is the last pick in the 1st round.

So essentially teams have guaranteed he goes 1st round.
 
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