The Talent Surrounding Ryan Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Shouright, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. Shouright

    Shouright A True Fan

    Joined:
    May 2004
    Messages:
    15,064
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Here is your list of rookie QBs who have gotten significant playing time since 2004:

    [TABLE="width: 454"]

    [TD="class: xl65, width: 191, bgcolor: transparent"]QB
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl66, width: 129, bgcolor: transparent"]Rating
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl66, width: 127, bgcolor: transparent"]Win%
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl68, width: 95, bgcolor: transparent"]Rating Z
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl68, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]Win% Z
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Ben Roethlisberger
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]98
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]1
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]1.80
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]2.74
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Joe Flacco
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]80
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.688
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]0.51
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]1.24
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Matt Ryan
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]88
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.688
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]1.08
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]1.24
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Mark Sanchez
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]63
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.563
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.71
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]0.63
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Russell Wilson
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]91
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.6
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]1.30
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]0.81
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Andrew Luck
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]77
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.6
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]0.29
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]0.81
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]RGIII
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]105
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.455
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]2.30
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]0.12
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Cam Newton
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]85
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.375
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]0.87
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.27
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Andy Dalton
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]80
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.563
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]0.51
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]0.63
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Vince Young
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]67
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.615
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.42
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]0.88
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Sam Bradford
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]77
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.438
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]0.29
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]0.03
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Jay Cutler
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]89
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.4
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]1.15
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.15
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Trent Edwards
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]70
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.556
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.21
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]0.60
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Kyle Orton
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]60
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.667
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.92
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]1.13
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Eli Manning
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]55
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.142
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-1.28
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-1.39
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Matt Leinart
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]74
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.364
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]0.08
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.32
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Matt Stafford
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]61
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.2
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.85
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-1.11
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Josh Freeman
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]60
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.333
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.92
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.47
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Jimmy Clausen
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]58
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.1
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-1.07
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-1.59
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Colt McCoy
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]75
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.25
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]0.15
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.87
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Charlie Frye
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]73
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.4
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]0.01
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.15
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Alex Smith
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]41
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.286
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-2.28
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.70
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Bruce Gradkowski
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]66
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.273
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.49
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.76
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Blaine Gabbert
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]65
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.286
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.56
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.70
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Christian Ponder
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]70
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.2
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.21
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-1.11
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Brandon Weeden
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]70
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.2
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.21
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-1.11
    [/TD]

    [TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]Ryan Tannehill
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]70
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.4
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.21
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"]-0.15
    [/TD]

    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]

    [TD="class: xl67, bgcolor: transparent"]AVERAGE
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]72.89
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.431
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]

    [TD="class: xl67, bgcolor: transparent"]STANDARD DEVIATION
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]13.97
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent"]0.208
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
    [TD="class: xl69, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
    [/TABLE]

    As you can see, the average rookie quarterback who has gotten significant playing time since 2004 has a QB rating of 72.89, a little more than two points higher than Ryan Tannehill's current QB rating.

    The average winning percentage of those teams during the games those QBs started was 0.431, which is just a tad higher than the Dolphins' current winning percentage (0.400).

    The key columns here are "Rating Z" and "Win% Z," which indicate how many standard deviations from average the rookie QB's rating falls, as well as how many standard deviations from average the team's winning percentage falls.

    A number of 1 or higher in those columns indicates that the value (either QB rating or team winning percentage) falls at least one standard deviation from average, which puts it at the 84th percentile or higher. In other words, a score of 1 or higher makes the value better than at least 84% of the QBs or teams in the sample.

    That's the level at which I'd personally call a value "significant" in this (or just about any) sample. In other words, only if the number in the "Rating Z" and "Win% Z" columns is 1 or higher would I call it "especially good."

    As you can see, there are only 4 teams of the 27 listed -- 15% -- that have managed to do significantly better than the average team that's started a rookie QB since 2004.

    So, the take-home message is this: if you believe this team should be doing significantly better than its record right now, realize that you're expecting the team to function as well as only 15% of teams with rookie QBs have since 2004.

    On the other hand, there are 5 teams of the 27 above -- 19% -- that did significantly worse with a rookie quarterback than the Dolphins are doing right now.

    So, when we evaluate how the team is doing right now, IMO we should realize that the team is working with a rookie QB, and based on the recent history in the NFL, there is an 85% chance the team won't do significantly better than it is right now under such circumstances.

    IMO we should also realize that the team is nowhere near the 19% of teams that performed significantly more poorly than average with a rookie QB. Instead, the team right now is safely among the 81% of teams that did not perform significantly more poorly than average with a rookie QB.

    In other words, contrary to popular belief, there is no cause for alarm regarding the talent surrounding Ryan Tannehill right now in my opinion. :)
     
  2. luduporcu

    luduporcu A True Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 2003
    Messages:
    1,598
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Drivel.
     
  3. mega-fin-love

    mega-fin-love Just trust me Donator

    Joined:
    May 2010
    Messages:
    2,182
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Cool chart and thanks for the post..... Having said that, If you think that there is no reason to be alarmed with the talent around Tanny you have lost your mind. We are not solid at any position on O.
     
  4. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 2012
    Messages:
    15,950
    Likes Received:
    171
    Trophy Points:
    63
    who is panicking? QB is the least of our problems.
     
  5. Dolfan4life!

    Dolfan4life! A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jun 2005
    Messages:
    2,427
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I wouldn't go so far as to call it drivel, and it's nice to see someone actually use some of the concepts being taught in college statistics (don't see that very often), but if you're doing so in an attempt to sell the thought that there's not a significant lack of talent surrounding Tannehill on offense, could have spent the time it took toput together this analysis a bit more constructively by simply taking a nap.
     
  6. Shouright

    Shouright A True Fan

    Joined:
    May 2004
    Messages:
    15,064
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ah well, I did this and I took a nap, too, so I got both covered. ;)
     
  7. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2009
    Messages:
    30,898
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The talent needs to get better around RT. However, RT needs to make playmakers out HIS play at QB.
     
  8. -=DolfanDave=-

    -=DolfanDave=- A True Fan

    Joined:
    Nov 2004
    Messages:
    6,040
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    0
    the -lack of- talent around Tannehill
     
  9. Dolfan4life!

    Dolfan4life! A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jun 2005
    Messages:
    2,427
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That's cool, tryptophan gets us all around Thanksgiving. Simultaneously, there still remains a ridiculous lack of talent surrounding Tannehill on offense.
     
  10. Shouright

    Shouright A True Fan

    Joined:
    May 2004
    Messages:
    15,064
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Thank you for your opinion. :)
     
  11. Digital

    Digital Starter

    Joined:
    Feb 2008
    Messages:
    4,904
    Likes Received:
    155
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Interesting metric. Thanks.

    As to the talent level two things are at issue: 1) Scheme on the offensive line, and 2) weapons at the WR and TE positions.

    The offensive line was built for a power rushing scheme and trained in a power rushing scheme. Now they are being asked to be a zone block scheme unit and are displaying mixed results because its a change and some players are less ideal fits for the system. A player by player analysis reveals a lot.

    Jake Long is an excellent LT having a poor year for him, but is still above average. Injuries, scheme, who knows what else, but I'd call this one a down year as opposed to a predicter of future ability. Joey Incognito was and is a journeyman. He is a physical brawler and not a good fit in the ZBS system, so hopefully he improves, but eventually he will probably be replaced. The only thing is that Incognito brings a physical, nasty and protective of our players attitude that is lacking on our line. Only Pouncey shows much nasty outside of Incognito. Mike Pouncey is a stud and has been playing like it. We are fortunate to have him anchoring our line as he plays well in every system and is our brightest bright spot. John Jerry is everything that Pouncey is not. Jerry is slow of thought, short of ambition, lacking in physical attitude, not protective of his teammates, unaware of his surroundings and generally NOT a hard worker. He is big, quick, strong and fits the physical qualifications, which is why he always remains a tantalizing physical talent who never seems to become a decent player. Martin has the speed of thought and very quick feet, but lacks the functional strength and technique to hold up against the NFL caliber bull rush so he is overcommitting to it and also falling prey to the speed rush. But, he has the tools both above the neck and below the neck and I believe will make a large stride towards becoming a good RT over this next offseason. Year 2 should be a huge improvement for him IMHO.

    Overall, these 5 starters will be considerably better at this next year, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a new G. Both of the current starters subpar.

    In the passing game we have no deep threat. This means we're facing 8 and 9 men in the box and cannot run the ball. Even if one of our WR's wins his 1v1, the other team is confident that a DB can run him down and prevent the TD. Hartline wins his 1v1's vs. bad CB's, and while that's not hugely impressive, it is the best we have. He is also fairly dependable. Bess can win in space over the middle, but is poor at RAC and not a real 3rd down go-to guy. He has the best hands on the team and a little quickness to gain separation, but is generally an inferior WR in all but those short underneath routes. We lack a red zone target. So even if we do dink and dunk our way into the red zone, we can't finish the deal through the air and the run is played so closely that we aren't successful.

    I like Fasano. But, he's a little better than average at everything and great at nothing. He isn't fast enough to be a deep threat or challenge the seam. He isn't big enough to be dominant in the red zone or overmatch DB's in the deep middle of the field. I'd say he is a good all around TE but in a 2 TE setup he is an ideal #2.

    Our running game suffers from the OL issues and a lack of a deep threat. It is built on getting speed guys like Bush and Miller to the second level and letting them wreak havoc with their speed and elusiveness. But, when the box is stacked, they can't make it to the second level very often and our ground game appears inept. We have no Ray Rice or Doug Martin type back to break through tackles and then use his speed. But then again, those guys don't see as many stacked boxes as we do because they have speed WR's to keep the safety back.
     
  12. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

    Joined:
    Jul 2008
    Messages:
    50,253
    Likes Received:
    183
    Trophy Points:
    63
    :bobdole:
     
  13. Dolphins7273

    Dolphins7273 A True Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 2007
    Messages:
    4,653
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    uh huh...
     
  14. HarryBagpipe

    HarryBagpipe Archibald Meatpants Super Donator Donator

    Joined:
    Apr 2007
    Messages:
    6,684
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Sounds like another Ireland apologist thread to me
     
  15. Shouright

    Shouright A True Fan

    Joined:
    May 2004
    Messages:
    15,064
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I don't agree with the overall premise, but I appreciate the thoughtful response. :up:
     
  16. Doctor Phibes

    Doctor Phibes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2009
    Messages:
    931
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Our receivers are no worse than our QB right now
     
  17. finjim

    finjim A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jan 2004
    Messages:
    4,502
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Stupid thread, worthless observation.

    Next.
     

Share This Page