Trade possibility?

[Feverdream]

To those who responded... a couple of various thoughts.

Yes, I completely agree... most of the highly touted TEs have not been all that. Indeed, this is why I counsel against taking them early every single year. Some are just 'meh', and some (like Pitts) are not really Tight Ends at all (he runs about 60% of his snaps from the slot).

I proposed the trade as a thought experiment, more than from a position that was suggesting the move. For what it's worth, I think Bowers will be more of a H back than a true TE.

If the Giants actually coughed up the 6 for Waddle (whom I don't value as much as most of you... small WRs are not my thing), I'd treat it as a salary dump and then look to draft Alt or a trade down.

I enjoyed everyone's thoughts...

 

[Aqua Man]

Grier is officially entering his phase as GM in which the name of the game is to try and keep all of Miami’s homegrown talent. Even so, I think he’d have to at least listen if teams came at him with a Top 10 pick for Waddle, but those type of offers aren’t coming.

On top of that, Miami gets closer to being a true SB contender by adding a legit 3rd threat at WR alongside Hill and Waddle. Moving Jaylen now would just result in Grier turning right around and using assets to replace a proven producer at WR.

 

[Kyndig]

Yes... this is ONLY speculation... flying monkeys.

I saw a piece from a Giants oriented board that suggested they should be SERIOUSLY interested if the Dolphins make Waddle available. The Giants are thought to be considering taking a WR at #6 (if they don't go QB).

So... I was wondering... if the Giants were to offer that #6 for Waddle... and Bowers (who a lot of you are interested in) is still on the Board, would you do this deal? Swap out our 1B WR for a supposedly NFL ready star TE?

To me, this seems like a way to replicate the Kelce/Hill combination that KC had... as well as a way to minimize some of our upcoming cap difficulties.

I'm not saying 'yes'... only that it might come up if the Giants are looking for immediate help for Jones.

Doesn’t t sound like a good move for the giants. Why not simply draft one of the top rookie prospects who you would have on the rookie contract who is likely as good as waddle, anyways, or good enough with less tread on the tires.

Can you name a 1st round tight end who came in and killed it in the past 20 years? What rounds were Kittle, Kielce, and Gronk drafted in?

 

[artdnj]

I wonder if McD wants a stud TE in this offense? Has he ever mentioned a plan to feature a TE?

 

[Feverdream]

Doesn’t t sound like a good move for the giants. Why not simply draft one of the top rookie prospects who you would have on the rookie contract who is likely as good as waddle, anyways, or good enough with less tread on the tires.

Can you name a 1st round tight end who came in and killed it in the past 20 years? What rounds were Kittle, Kielce, and Gronk drafted in?

I certainly wouldn't do it if I were them... but they are kind of in a bad spot with Jones... they gave him big money and after poor performance and an injury, they REALLY need to know what they have with him.. right now.

They might be in the mood for instant production... GMs get nervous and overpay. Heck, I didn't come up with the idea, it came from a Giants board.

 

[artdnj]

Doesn’t t sound like a good move for the giants. Why not simply draft one of the top rookie prospects who you would have on the rookie contract who is likely as good as waddle, anyways, or good enough with less tread on the tires.

Can you name a 1st round tight end who came in and killed it in the past 20 years? What rounds were Kittle, Kielce, and Gronk drafted in?

If we did that I believe a trade back for add'l picks would be the move. No way we pick a TE at 6

 

[Feverdream]

I wonder if McD wants a stud TE in this offense? Has he ever mentioned a plan to feature a TE?

I've been curious about that as well... it seems to me that he'd probably welcome a Y-type TE or even a better H back (to replace Ingold)... but I can't see him using a slot TE... certainly not while we have Hill and Waddle.

 

[Kyndig]

I certainly wouldn't do it if I were them... but they are kind of in a bad spot with Jones... they gave him big money and after poor performance and an injury, they REALLY need to know what they have with him.. right now.

They might be in the mood for instant production... GMs get nervous and overpay. Heck, I didn't come up with the idea, it came from a Giants board.

Fair enough. Whoever posted that must not be familiar with the draft WR prospects this year. You could get one hell of a WR at #6 this year, no need to trade for anyone.

2024 NFL Draft Position Rankings: Wide receivers | NFL Draft | PFF

Ohio State's Marvin Harrison Jr. headlines PFF's 2024 NFL Draft wide receiver rankings.

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The top 3 wr prospects are all unbelievable and all very fast this year.

 

[Blake the great]

Yes... this is ONLY speculation... flying monkeys.

I saw a piece from a Giants oriented board that suggested they should be SERIOUSLY interested if the Dolphins make Waddle available. The Giants are thought to be considering taking a WR at #6 (if they don't go QB).

So... I was wondering... if the Giants were to offer that #6 for Waddle... and Bowers (who a lot of you are interested in) is still on the Board, would you do this deal? Swap out our 1B WR for a supposedly NFL ready star TE?

To me, this seems like a way to replicate the Kelce/Hill combination that KC had... as well as a way to minimize some of our upcoming cap difficulties.

I'm not saying 'yes'... only that it might come up if the Giants are looking for immediate help for Jones.

As long as I can remember, Finheaven has been obsessed with wanting to draft TE's in the 1st round. The top rated TEs always underwhelm in the NFL. I would consider trading Waddle for #6 overall but I would not be targeting a TE at #6, I just dont think thats good value. And I dont want to hear about how great Bowers will be because we go through this every year. "Scouts" were ready to hand Kyle Pitts his gold jacket before he was even drafted. Every year is the "new breed of TEs" or "the next Gronk" and they never live up to the hype. Im not even convinced that we would fully utilize a talented TE in this offense as much as we force feed Tyreek Hill. We just haven't seen it and based on the way that the roster has been constructed, McDaniel hasn't made TE a priority. With so much attention on Hill and Waddle and Mostert, McDaniel should have been more creative in the redzone to get a TE wide open but we didnt see that.

Yes Smythe is limited but he proved to be capable pass catcher. Look at Jake Ferguson with Dallas for example, Smythe and Ferguson have very similar measurables and produced similar athletic testing at the combine and both were drafted in the 4th round but Ferguson produced way more in his first years as a starter. I dont think its because ferguson is uber talented, Cowboys just like to use their TEs and they have done that for decades now. So I could understand a team like the Cowboys wanting to reach for someone like Bowers as high as #6 because they actually use their TEs.

That doesn't mean Im saying we should avoid drafting a TE because we definitely should, but #6 overall is too rich. Im also not suggesting we should "avoid" drafting a TE in the 1st round. I would be thrilled to get Bowers at #21 or even if we traded up into somewhere like #12. but #6 overall is just too much. I just don't think Bowers or any TE in this class would make enough of an impact for us. Over and over again we see that some of the best TE's in the game today and of all time were drafted outside the 1st round. Its not like QB's where the majority of the best QB's and/or starters at the QB position were 1st round picks.

 

[Wishfishin]

After reading some posts, I get the feeling some are judging Bowers and have never actually seen him play. The guy is a ready made superstar. No way he busts. With UGA, he was always the best player on the field.

 

[artdnj]

After reading some posts, I get the feeling some are judging Bowers and have never actually seen him play. The guy is a ready made superstar. No way he busts. With UGA, he was always the best player on the field.

I just don't know if we would use him properly. For instance, If we had Kelce would we feature him? So far, TE use has been somewhat limited to blocking although maybe it's the next step for McD's offense.

 

[Blake the great]

After reading some posts, I get the feeling some are judging Bowers and have never actually seen him play. The guy is a ready made superstar. No way he busts. With UGA, he was always the best player on the field.

Everyone literally said the same thing with Pitts.

I cant think of one top ranked TE drafted in the 1st round that was a slam dunk pick in recent years.

Its not that they are busts, they just don't have huge impacts on their teams.

 

[The Ghost]

All the best teams in the league have bona fide threats at TE. You can't ignore that fact. It's not just about featuring them, it's about the attention they command and their increased value on third down to extend drives. Mahomes and Kelce kill you 8-9 yards at a time.

If you don't have that threat, its a whole lot easier for defenses to deploy their assets to shutting down two guys. Its not that hard to shut down Waddle and Hill when you have quality players in your secondary and a pass rush.

Guys like Durham Smythe catch passes because defenses allow them to catch passes. Smythe wouldn't make a single play if defenses actually accounted for him so calling him a "capable pass catcher" is hogwash. Every single TE in the league fits that bill by default. Only about 12-15 TE's in the league actually require game planning for.

Brock Bowers would absolutely devastate defenses if he were added to this offense......not that I believe for a second he stands more than a 5% chance of joining this team.

We don't need to the best TE prospect to call it an upgrade. Plenty of guys will fit for a year or two as we are currently behind the 8 ball in terms of draft capital.

Anyone who is unsure whether or not McDaniel wants a TE threat, remember they spent $11M in one year to bring Gesicki back on the tag.

 

[Wishfishin]

Everyone literally said the same thing with Pitts.

I cant think of one top ranked TE drafted in the 1st round that was a slam dunk pick in recent years.

Its not that they are busts, they just don't have huge impacts on their teams.

Bowers is beyond Pitts.

 

[Feverdream]

All the best teams in the league have bona fide threats at TE. You can't ignore that fact. It's not just about featuring them, it's about the attention they command and their increased value on third down to extend drives. Mahomes and Kelce kill you 8-9 yards at a time.

If you don't have that threat, its a whole lot easier for defenses to deploy their assets to shutting down two guys. Its not that hard to shut down Waddle and Hill when you have quality players in your secondary and a pass rush.

Guys like Durham Smythe catch passes because defenses allow them to catch passes. Smythe wouldn't make a single play if defenses actually accounted for him so calling him a "capable pass catcher" is hogwash. Every single TE in the league fits that bill by default. Only about 12-15 TE's in the league actually require game planning for.

Brock Bowers would absolutely devastate defenses if he were added to this offense......not that I believe for a second he stands more than a 5% chance of joining this team.

We don't need to the best TE prospect to call it an upgrade. Plenty of guys will fit for a year or two as we are currently behind the 8 ball in terms of draft capital.

Anyone who is unsure whether or not McDaniel wants a TE threat, remember they spent $11M in one year to bring Gesicki back on the tag.

I'll say this again... adding Bowers when you already have Hill and Waddle catching most of their passes in the area on the field where Bowers would work... is not efficient. You would have three players working intermediate and seam routes.
That's a real problem, and it's WHY we don't throw to Tight Ends.