What really happened at pick #19... | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

What really happened at pick #19...

If you have two players with close values and one is a need right now and the other may be in the future and you are a team that is supposedly close to a Championship, you always take the player that addresses your need today because while this player will contribute right away the other player will see limited playing time. Carey should start but Wilfork would be in a rotation with T. Bowens, Chester, Zgonina and even Jay Williams (in passing situations).
 
I absolutely love this statement

"I know what it takes to win football games and it starts in the trenches," Carey said. "I don't think this team needs that much. All they needed was somebody in the trenches to help them protect and open little cracks for Ricky Williams."

This is so true..from a youngon...it's the trenches that set the tone and wins the games.
 
ZOD said:
After Carey nobody was worth drafting. We talked about it forever.

What gaping hole?

DE-Ty Warren, Jarvis Green, Marquise Hill
NT-Keith Traylor, Dan Klecko, Ethan Kelley
DE-Richard Seymour, Rodney Bailey, Buck Rassmusen

I don't see the gaping hole. :huh:

Although I think if it was going to be anybody taking Carey it would have been Dallas. It's funny how they were interested in trading up until pick 22 came along.
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Yes, A gaping hole. Ethan Kelly was a 7th round draft pick last year. Dan Klecko an overachiever, good player used as a DE and LB last year. No where near the size needed to play NT. Keith Traylor, a panic signing when Ted Washington was lost.

Traylor, 34, might not be quite as effective as Washington, one of the NFL's premier big men and a defender whose tackle totals always belied his value, but the Pats coaches feel he can still be a solid player if his snaps are maximized.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1772881

Just like the Dolphins when we lost Todd Wade. There was still a gaping hole at RT with St Clair and McIntosh. No one was surprised when the Dolphins drafted Carey who the Fins consider a ROT.

Now from the NE paper saying that a NT was not needed, showing a NT need was not common knowledge.

Regardless of his exact tonnage, with veteran Ted Washington gone to Oakland and newly acquired Keith Traylor not being a true nose tackle, drafting Wilfork seemed a solid idea if one assumes Warren isn't the answer at the position.
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http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2004/04/25/nose_job/

BTW Ty Warren, last year's first pick by NE, is also a DT that the Patriots used as a DE.
 
Surferosa said:
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports...tions/sunday/sports_04b853c396ea20aa004c.html

DAVIE -- With the first pick in his tenure as Dolphins general manager, Rick Spielman was not going to leave the first round without a player he had targeted.

After tackle Shawn Andrews and receiver Michael Clayton went off the board ahead of Miami and with the threat of Minnesota drafting offensive lineman Vernon Carey or trading the pick to an interested team, Spielman pulled the trigger.

Spielman dealt Miami's fourth-round pick to the Vikings to move up from No. 20 to No. 19 and secure Carey, the Miami Hurricane who is expected by most to start at right tackle next season.

"Some teams were trying to hop us to get up to Minnesota's pick," Spielman said. "They were on the phone with two other teams that I knew needed offensive lineman and we weren't going to take the chance of not getting Vernon Carey."

Carey said the Patriots were one of the teams keeping him on the phone.

I dont care what the Pats say, Carey HIMSELF siad that the Pats were keeping him on the line while they called the Vikes to move up. What more do you want?
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I still think the Pats were one of the teams interested, but on my way to work this morning WQAM's Joe Rose had Vernon Carey on the phone and asked him about this. And from the horses mouth into my own ears he said that Minnesota was the team on the phone with him when the deal went down. Maybe he meant what the PBPost reported or maybe the PBPost was wrong, but there surely was a team that inquired about him.
 
FWIW from a Vikings fan perspective I would have been stunned if the Vikes had a shot at Udeze and let him get away. I am 99.9% sure the Vikes would not have traded down with New England or any other team if they thought there was the slightest chance they would lose Udeze. Carey is a good pick and a great fit for Miami but IMHO the Dolphins gave up a 4th round pick for nothing.
 
Jimmy James said:
I actually sent you a PM about why you didn't get a response somewhere else, but I'll just respond here...

I do not believe in drafting for need. If two guys are close, and I need one more than the other, I still take the better guy. This is my position, and I think anything less is a path to mediocrity. This is BPA.
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Hypothetically, what would you suggest that a team do if a player at the same position (say LB) grades out to their BPA for all of their picks? Should a team draft 6 or 7 LBs? I realize it is an extreme scenario, but I think you are way over simplifying the drafting process. You have to consider your needs. Any team that says they don't is lying (IMO).

I agree with an earlier poster, that you group players in fairly tight bands. From you top remaining band you select the player that best fits your needs. To blindly follow a list and not adjust to how the draft is going is stupid.

Why send a whole team to the war room? Why take 15 minutes to make a selection? Sounds pretty simple to me.... "John Doe is next on our list, send the selection up to the podium...." The draft should be over in an hour.

Maybe the reality is that no teams blindly follow the process you describe.
 
The reports in the papers and on the web said that there was a "perceived" thought that some other team was on the phone with the Vikes and wanted the pick...as it turned out, there were teams negotiating with the Vikes, and the Pats were one of them...so, RS made the move to insure he got his man...there have been reports that the Pats were interested in Carey, even at 21....several mocks had them wanting Carey...but I think a little closer to the 32 spot...The bottom line is that we needed the guy, and he was rated highest on our board at that time...if Carey is our RT or RG and playing well for the next 10 years, will it have been too much to give up for ??
 
We had to make sure we got our guy........after carey what rt were we left with??? Rick got it done, he added some picks later on and picked some really quality guys from what i am reading about them. It seems like we really wanted a tackle.........so what would have happened IF he was nabbed before he got to us.
 
In the unlikely event that I keep ringing up LBs, I start trading up or down using smart deals. Somebody in the league is going to be needing LB if I'm that deep.

The only reason the draft doesn't take far less time is because trade offers are advanced and considered.

I frankly don't care how many or all teams do things. This is how they should be done in my opinion.
 
I like the pick. I think we overpaid some, but nonetheless, I like the pick. I think this allows us to have a younr line that can play together for years and get to know each other.

Smith, James, McKinney, German/Whitley, Carey. That line is young, but hoepfulyl our staff won't panic and keep changing the lineup on them. Unless, someone is hurt or terribly ineffective, I would like for them to get as much time practicing together as possible. In fact, I would like to see Carey signed ASAP, and the whole O-line together practicing already. Just my thought though.
 
Jimmy James said:
In the unlikely event that I keep ringing up LBs, I start trading up or down using smart deals. Somebody in the league is going to be needing LB if I'm that deep.

The only reason the draft doesn't take far less time is because trade offers are advanced and considered.

I frankly don't care how many or all teams do things. This is how they should be done in my opinion.
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Well at least you're firm in your convictions. I don't happen to agree with you but you state your position well.
 
Merman said:
Yes, A gaping hole. Ethan Kelly was a 7th round draft pick last year. Dan Klecko an overachiever, good player used as a DE and LB last year. No where near the size needed to play NT. Keith Traylor, a panic signing when Ted Washington was lost.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1772881

Just like the Dolphins when we lost Todd Wade. There was still a gaping hole at RT with St Clair and McIntosh. No one was surprised when the Dolphins drafted Carey who the Fins consider a ROT.

Now from the NE paper saying that a NT was not needed, showing a NT need was not common knowledge.


http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2004/04/25/nose_job/

BTW Ty Warren, last year's first pick by NE, is also a DT that the Patriots used as a DE.
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You are kinda having it both ways there aren't you?

I mean this is what Fat Len worships Pioli/Bellichek for isn't it. Drafting the "football players" that nobody seems to want because they don't amaze in workouts. I've read Fat Len's articles where he says that he thinks Dan Klecko will be a stud in New England before it's all said and done.

It's also just a little convenient to label someone a "panic signing" to what most consider one of the best personnel men in the NFL.

No matter how good anyone thinks Vince Wilfork is or will be, no player in the NFL will fill the void in the absence of Ted Washington. With that said it's a little "convenient" to compare Keith Traylor to big Ted. Seeing as Ted is now 36 I guess one could say that Traylor still has some years left at 34.

Sapp will get all of the credit in Oakland but it's the presence of Ted Washington that vastly improve that defense.

I still see no gaping hole.
 
This whole arguement is all good and fine. If you look at the draft as a whole what we ended up with was good players. Also i would like to say that we did give up a 4th,but then ended up trading out of the 3rd to get it back and some. So in relative terms we gave up a 3rd and ended up with awsome extra lower rd picks. Eitherway, we got some good players for the value they were picked. Dolfanreal69
 
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