Whats the problem with the Oline

[Jssanto]

Tunsil is in his second year and back to his first position. Bushrod is now in his second year at R guard, big change from L tackle, so both of these positions should be better.
James may be better via new (Gase primarily) coaches.
Larsen seems ok even if not pro bowler.
Pouncey a definite question.
I think we have a chance to have a well above avg Oline.

 

[finmann]

I think LACK OF CONSISTENCY is the biggest issue the offensive line is having.

I coach a high school offensive line in 8A football in the state of Florida and nothing hurts me more than guys being injured and having to plug and play guys. It's tough! Tackles have to be studs and have the ability to carry their weight on an island. I don't think your guards have to be studs because you can help those guys through double teams so I don't make a big deal out of our guard play. If Pouncey was healthy and stayed healthy for the duration of the season I think we would see it didn't matter who played guard. Your center and your tackles have to be dogs, you can get away with one guard who is solid and another who's not so great. Like I said, there are ways to hide those guys through scheming efficiently.

OK...I see what you and Eesti are saying, you actually put more emphasis on the center position than anywhere else. Lack of a decent center affects the entire line. The question then becomes why so much attention on guards(not that there aren't important) on this site and local media and not enough attention being paid to the center position.

 

[Stoobz]

Lack of healthy quality starters and in the recent past, some really bad OL coaching.

Perhaps both have resolved themselves.

 

[russianbear]

guard play for one, injuries for two, and something that has been improved is tannehill wasn't as comfortable back there as he is now

all of those factors have lead to a very bad o-line showing over the last 4 years or so

 

[DolfanDuBbZ~]

Playing tackles at guard, causes problems. And the FO along with Gase, thought it was a good thing last year.

Anyways, I've pounded the table for some legit guards....for years. Martin? If not for DAL actually being smart, I was a big proponent of drafting him. Whitehair? He showed in CHI he was not only a day 1 starter, but one who could kick into Center and play at a decent clip.

Want more consistent play? Get some guards who actually, you know, play guard.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

I would say it's a couple of things. One is that the unit hasn't had continuity. That is huge for an offensive line. How many games over the last three years has Miami had all their starters play together? Not many.

Secondly has been constant scheme changes. The team went from looking for power type players under Sparano to finesse under Philibin and now more athletic types with Gase.

Injuries to players like Pouncey have really hurt. It would be one thing if he was an average player, but he's someone who makes an impact when he is able to play. That's problematic and I think the team needs to find a starting caliber guard/center in the draft because of the number of games Pouncey has missed.

Lack of talent at guard has to be listed. Miami has a potential elite left tackle in Tunsil, a pro-bowl type center when Pouncey is healthy and a decent right tackle in James. Asiata may be the answer at one guard spot, but that is yet to be determined. Bushrod is a stopgap and the depth is questionable.

 

[maralieus]

The problem is philbin created a finesse offense with soft lineman and its been tough to get that out. It takes multiple years to rebuild an entire offensive line rotation. Pouncey was the only one that fits a good to great o-line group when Gase came. The only other so-called "consistent starter" was James and that is still debatable. They were marshmallow soft. Their technique was all for naught because they couldnt handle getting punched in the mouth.

Tunsil is tough and skilled. Pouncey is tough enough. James is average on both. Those guards though. Once again we're looking at them as the make it or break it group. I'm hopeful for asiata though. Possibly Steen as well.

 

[Pandarilla]

We stemmed the sack parade by throwing tackles at the guard position.

This year, we really need them to control the tempo and protect our defense. I'm looking at Larsen and Bushrod at left and right guard. Asiata and Steen will back them up.

Steen is said to have looked stronger this year. If he starts, it will be a godsend.

Asiata looks to be a mauler, but I think he's struggling now with pad level and leverage.

Steen and Asiata emerging as our starting guards seems like best case scenario so far (not to slight Larsen, as I don't know how good of a push he can get).

 

[Fin Thirteen]

Our past FOs (and this one in the case of Bushrod) have fallen into the trap of drafting tackles to play guard. They did it because the tackles have the footwork and mobility to play zone and the flexibility to move around the line on gameday (because you dress so few linemen that's a big plus). We built lines ostensibly to move the pocket, to pull and then get to the second level and to handle the smaller shifter explosive D linemen.

We ignored drafting college guards under the misapprehension that they wouldn't fit a zone scheme, that they would lack flexibility and that showing aggression and a nasty streak was surely a mask for athletic limitations.

So we went through a farce of constantly shifting personnel, almost all of them tackles by trade (many if them not very good to start with) who were asked to move from tackle to guard and back, left to right and back - why? Because they didn't fit well anywhere. None had the necessary anchor, quick hands and aggressive mentality for the interior.

The farce hasn't quite ended yet, in the sense that we still played a LT at LG last year, a LT at RG. Plus, with all the converted tackle converts on the roster, we had no proper center cover until recently (and you could easily argue we still dont).

To improve, first we need players who can play on the interior in the club and clear out the swing tackle and failure players. That's partially complete. Then we need a run of TC and games with a consistent line. We need guards (probably at least on more unless Asiata can step up) who can move the pile when needed - zone is fine but on 4th and inches or goalline it's about power and desire more often than not. And we need a competent center backup who can ID the offence, snap the ball and anchor the middle.

I'd say we're 75% there on all of those, barring the run of consistency. But 75% has as much chance of becoming 50% as 100%., because we lack a culture of dominance and success in the line.

 

[finmann]

Our past FOs (and this one in the case of Bushrod) have fallen into the trap of drafting tackles to play guard. They did it because the tackles have the footwork and mobility to play zone and the flexibility to move around the line on gameday (because you dress so few linemen that's a big plus). We built lines ostensibly to move the pocket, to pull and then get to the second level and to handle the smaller shifter explosive D linemen.

We ignored drafting college guards under the misapprehension that they wouldn't fit a zone scheme, that they would lack flexibility and that showing aggression and a nasty streak was surely a mask for athletic limitations.

So we went through a farce of constantly shifting personnel, almost all of them tackles by trade (many if them not very good to start with) who were asked to move from tackle to guard and back, left to right and back - why? Because they didn't fit well anywhere. None had the necessary anchor, quick hands and aggressive mentality for the interior.

The farce hasn't quite ended yet, in the sense that we still played a LT at LG last year, a LT at RG. Plus, with all the converted tackle converts on the roster, we had no proper center cover until recently (and you could easily argue we still dont).

To improve, first we need players who can play on the interior in the club and clear out the swing tackle and failure players. That's partially complete. Then we need a run of TC and games with a consistent line. We need guards (probably at least on more unless Asiata can step up) who can move the pile when needed - zone is fine but on 4th and inches or goalline it's about power and desire more often than not. And we need a competent center backup who can ID the offence, snap the ball and anchor the middle.

I'd say we're 75% there on all of those, barring the run of consistency. But 75% has as much chance of becoming 50% as 100%., because we lack a culture of dominance and success in the line.

excellent read brother.......definitely answers the question

 

[Dsteve]

The problem in the first half of the year was basically Juwan James getting smoked on every third and medium plus senario. Instant, barely slowing the guy down pressure. It was ridiculous. Years past it's been the same thing but from every position. Literally in every passing down our line would never win.

In the run game it hinges on the health of the center who's always hurt. I'm really disappointed we didn't fix at least one guard position but the players we have now are at least NFL standard, low end starters. Before we basically had dudes off the street like Dallas Thomas and the other turn style twin cut mid season.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Just in case anyone needs a reminder of what real guard play looks like. I'd take on that contract in a moments notice as well.