What's with the Hype with Vance Joseph???

[BlueFin]

Why is Vance Joseph different than Kevin Coyle?

He was the secondary coach for the bengals and 49ers. He doesn't have any experience as a Defensive Coordinator in the NFL. So what makes you believe he will be the best DC ever hired by the Dolphins?

What is his playbook? Where did he learn the 4-3 defense?

He will turn bronze into gold or diamond just because of his intensity as DB coach? Can he play that chess game with Bellicheat where Bellicheat will exploit our weaknesses and he has to make (halftime) adjustments?

I'm not buying the hype yet because I heard the same thing about Dan Campbell even Coyle when he was hired.

Good thinking...you have to much to lose by having hope and enjoying the offseason with optimism.

Better to take the safe road and not go put on a limb...

 

[BlueFin]

right now u can say dolphins will win anyway from 6 to 8 game. from 2004 to 2015. a good coach and staff can get us to 9-7

Right now you can say whatever you want...because nobody knows.

This team could go 4-12 or 12-4.

To early to make judgement on it...anything is possible.

 

[hoops]

you better hope vance is legit

 

[Adam Strange]

Well in 2014 everyone thought Lazor was the greatest thing since sliced bread; I don't know how many times I read that Philbin needed to be retained just so Lazor didn't fly the coop. One year later, we see how that turned out and Lazor was run out of town on a rail-- along with Philbin.

Joseph is being fluffed now for the same reason that there' s so much junk posted about how Dion Jordan is going to win comeback player of the year, and how this one's going to return to his Pro Bowl form, and that one's going to be amazing, and how the team's going to win 10 games and give the Pats a run for their money.

If you're a Dolphins fan, the preseason is the only time you can strut. Then the season starts and well... one winning season out of the last ten.

 

[BlueUndertow]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/p...sees-vance-joseph-as-a-star-says-marvin-lewis

Vance Joseph interviewed for the head coaching job but lost out to Kubiak. Kubiak apparently then wanted to bring Joseph in then to Denver as DC (possibly over Wade Philips who did get the job) but was blocked by the Bengals.

Sounds well thought of around the league to get the consideration.

Dolphins only got him because his contract was up in Cincinnati and they couldn't block him from moving up any more.

 

[dlockz]

Why is Vance Joseph different than Kevin Coyle?

He was the secondary coach for the bengals and 49ers. He doesn't have any experience as a Defensive Coordinator in the NFL. So what makes you believe he will be the best DC ever hired by the Dolphins?

What is his playbook? Where did he learn the 4-3 defense?

He will turn bronze into gold or diamond just because of his intensity as DB coach? Can he play that chess game with Bellicheat where Bellicheat will exploit our weaknesses and he has to make (halftime) adjustments?

I'm not buying the hype yet because I heard the same thing about Dan Campbell even Coyle when he was hired.

This is not unusual, we heard the same thing with Kevin coyle

 

[fansinceGWilson]

First, IMO, Coyle was NOT a good DC. He had his system that worked well until the league figured it out. Coyle didn't adjust. That's NOT a good DC. Last 2 years he was in Miami there was revolt (not quite) in the D. Players could tell a call wouldn't work and some vented against Coyle while on the field. IIRC, Coyle's system was so precise, OC's could read his call by seeing the personnel he sent in. Coyle, with all his experience, had a bottom feeding D. A virgin DC comes in and the D climbs to league average. Tell me how any of that is a good DC.

As for VJ, as others have posted, he was an 'in demand' guy. Doesn't guarantee success but it means Gase wasn't reaching for a DC. He's flexible. He's fielded a good secondary. He doesn't like his CBs 8 yards off LOS. He wants to attack. Yes, Coyle said the same thing, but I never saw it. VJ says he wants to use Suh 'correctly.' Read in to that what you want. Again no guarantees and I expect growing pains with the secondary, but it is VERY reasonable to expect something better than Coyle.

 

[Tannchise]

Why is Vance Joseph different than Kevin Coyle?

He was the secondary coach for the bengals and 49ers. He doesn't have any experience as a Defensive Coordinator in the NFL. So what makes you believe he will be the best DC ever hired by the Dolphins?

What is his playbook? Where did he learn the 4



who do you want in? Rob Ryan instead? Better track record, right? GTFO

 

[Gonzo]

That is exactly what I think differentiates Coach Coyle from Coach Joseph. In the NFL, you need to be flexible, and succeed with what you got. The coaches that can do that, succeed far more then those coaches that need the talent to be exactly what they need to succeed.

I'm cautiously optimistic about him (I love the Gase hire, to counter any pessimistic Debbie downer concerns), but I'm not sure I'd call him flexible when scheme fit has been the phrase of the day since day one. That can work, mind you (Seattle), but it leaves little room for error. He also has his work cut out for him with those CBs and LBs.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

I'm cautiously optimistic about him (I love the Gase hire, to counter any pessimistic Debbie downer concerns), but I'm not sure I'd call him flexible when scheme fit has been the phrase of the day since day one. That can work, mind you (Seattle), but it leaves little room for error. He also has his work cut out for him with those CBs and LBs.

Speed at LB is one of the biggest concerns, imo. LB's need to cover a lot of ground in a Cover 2. Lee made a lot of sense at 13 - before Tunsil fell. I think the CB's will play well enough. Vance Joseph's approach simplifies the tasks of his DB's. As with anything, when you take pressure off of one position, another position must inherit that burden. In Joseph's D, the LB's take on the added weight.

 

[gfish24]

Coyle got a top prospect when we drafted Dion Jordan and he totally failed to develop him as a player. In fact Dion became so disenchanted that he mentally escaped by taking ecstasy. Make no mistake, Jordan has to take responsibility for his actions. However, the failure of the coaches, and specifically Kevin Coyle to help to build the player's self confidence, reflects very poorly on him. It will be really interesting to see if Dion now applies himself to successfully play in the NFL.
I also recall Jared Odrick blowing up on the sidelines with Joe Philbin 2 years ago. There was speculation that the issue was the over-complicated scheme that Coyle was operating. At the end of the year, Joe promised that the Defense was going to be less complicated next year. However, Joe and Kevin only lasted 4 games.
We have talent on the Defense and our big hope is that Vance Joseph can do a lot more with the talent assembled. I expect that he will. On a scale of 0 - 10, I would give Coyle a 4. Joe Philbin banked on him and he failed.

How do you know Jordan had to escape his feelings about Coyles D using ecstasy .... It's not Coyles fault that Jordan used drugs... As much as I dislike Coyle and the job he did here, blaming him for Jordan's drug issues is absolutely ridiculous

 

[Fin Thirteen]

I'm reserving judgement on the whole team until we're at least half way through the season.

 

[Geforce]

How do you know Jordan had to escape his feelings about Coyles D using ecstasy .... It's not Coyles fault that Jordan used drugs... As much as I dislike Coyle and the job he did here, blaming him for Jordan's drug issues is absolutely ridiculous

You are right that it is not Coyle's fault Jordan used drugs. However Coyle, Philbin and the medical staff do take some of the blame for playing Jordan when they knew he wasn't going to play that many snaps given the fact that he missed so much time during training camp because of his injured shoulder that never got a chance to fully heal.

Here was Dolphins defensive coordinator Kevin Coyle's thoughts on his second-year defensive end:

"Oh yeah, but we have a different Dion (Jordan) as well. The thing was last year, we came very close in the preseason to have to make a decision whether or not we were going to basically redshirt Dion or know that we were going to get limited snaps from him. All of the talk in the offseason that centered around, ‘Well, he wasn’t utilized, he didn’t do that.’ Well, honestly, we knew going into the year that he had not had the offseason, that he was coming off of an injury and would it be in the best interest of our team to have him, even for limited snaps, we made that decision. Certainly, Dion wished he had a bigger rookie season and so do we, but we have great expectations for Dion Jordan coming into this year. You cannot have enough great pass-rushers and, we feel that with Dion at full speed, we have a prime-time player that’s going to explode this year.”

It is interesting to think Miami almost put Jordan on injured reserve last year following offseason shoulder surgery. Jordan didn’t get healthy until during the season, and by that point he was already behind in the rotation. It also didn’t help Jordan that starting defensive end Olivier Vernon emerged and led the Dolphins with 11.5 sacks. Jordan finished with two sacks and 26 tackles off the bench. But backup experience for Jordan is better than no experience.

http://espn.go.com/blog/miami-dolphins/post/_/id/7840/coyle-dion-jordan-will-explode-this-year

 

[susser2000]

I don't think anyone labeled him the best hire we've ever had; if they did, I missed that. I'm neither excited nor bummed about the hire. I hope for the best, but expect the worst. Every Defensive Coordinator has to start somewhere, so here's to a decent first season for him with the Dolphins. :brewskis:

 

[BigNastyFish]

He's young and energetic with upside. That's the good news.

He's unproven as a DC and its pure speculation as to how good he may be.

BNF.