BigDogsHunt
Prove It!
MikeO said:
I put Rice and Gossage in the same catagory....Writers/voters do not like them and never have liked how they were treated by them.
However, would agree that both do deserve to be in.
2007 MLB Hall of Fame Options
- Thread starter BigDogsHunt
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I put Rice and Gossage in the same catagory....Writers/voters do not like them and never have liked how they were treated by them.
However, would agree that both do deserve to be in.
phunwin
The name's Bond...James Bond.
We all know Ripken and Gwynn will go. I think Rice will make it too and maybe Gossage. Their numbers have been trending upward enough that they could get in this time...which is stupid. Not that I have anything against those guys, but if you didn't vote for them five years ago, why vote for them now? Has Rice hit 30 more home runs in retirement? Has Gossage lowered his career ERA by a half a run? Why on earth would you vote against someone in 2001 (or whenever) and then vote for them in 2006? People are so stupid sometimes.
Blyleven will never get in, even though he deserves it on his career numbers. They should eject Don Sutton from the HOF and replace him with Blyleven, since they were basically the same pitcher except that Blyleven was a bit better, while Sutton had the benefit of playing on good teams.
I'm on the fence about Rice. I feel like he and Dale Murphy seemed to have the same career; they were both incredible hitters for a decade and then fell off a cliff. Of course, Rice's prime lasted a bit longer.
I'd definitely vote for Gossage, if I had a vote.
As for McGwire, I'm on the fence. He almost certainly abused steroids. Here's the thing, though, and I don't think enough people bring it up: he could have shot himself in the *** with HGH, or andro, or mutant flaxseed growth hormone or whatever in front of 50,000 people at Busch Stadium, and MLB couldn't have done a thing about it. Steroid abuse was perfectly legal in the major leagues until 2004. So while McGwire acted inappropriately, and was a lousy example to kids, he also didn't do anything illegal. So I don't know.
Blyleven will never get in, even though he deserves it on his career numbers. They should eject Don Sutton from the HOF and replace him with Blyleven, since they were basically the same pitcher except that Blyleven was a bit better, while Sutton had the benefit of playing on good teams.
I'm on the fence about Rice. I feel like he and Dale Murphy seemed to have the same career; they were both incredible hitters for a decade and then fell off a cliff. Of course, Rice's prime lasted a bit longer.
I'd definitely vote for Gossage, if I had a vote.
As for McGwire, I'm on the fence. He almost certainly abused steroids. Here's the thing, though, and I don't think enough people bring it up: he could have shot himself in the *** with HGH, or andro, or mutant flaxseed growth hormone or whatever in front of 50,000 people at Busch Stadium, and MLB couldn't have done a thing about it. Steroid abuse was perfectly legal in the major leagues until 2004. So while McGwire acted inappropriately, and was a lousy example to kids, he also didn't do anything illegal. So I don't know.
F
finswin56
It's obviously petty how the writers act with regard to certain players. I don't get why baseball hasn't adopted the NFL's HoF voting process. I think the NFL's version is outstanding... Lock everyone in a room and debate/explain yourself in front of your peers. This would also help with the older players who were rarely seen by writers following the other league. I'd be very curious to see what percentage of AL writers who vote for Rice, and the NL's that don't vote for him.BigDogsHunt said:
phunwin
The name's Bond...James Bond.
nyjunc said:
I completely agree, I was merely using Sutton as an example since he's a useful comparison with Blyleven. In many ways, they had a similar career: often good, seldom great, extreme periods of longevity. Blyleven was just better. But you could easily toss out 20 or 30 players that are currently in the Hall of Fame with little to no disagreement.
In fact, let's compare Sutton and Blyleven's career totals, just for a lark...
Blyleven - 287-250, 685 GS, 242 CG (WOW!), 4970 IP, 3.31 ERA, 118 ERA+, 1.198 WHIP
Sutton - 324-256, 756 GS, 178 CG, 5282 IP, 3.26 ERA, 108 ERA+, 1.142 WHIP
Sutton's raw numbers are generally better, but that ERA+ is huge, as it accounts for park factors, something that were a huge edge for Sutton, pitching in the (until recently) pitcher-friendly confines of Dodger Stadium for his halcyon years. That ERA+ shows that Sutton was 8 percent better than a league average pitcher for his career, while Blyleven was 18 percent better. Plus, Bert was an absolute horse; he threw a complete game better than one out of every three times out. And he had to, look at some of the awful teams he got stuck pitching for.
phunwin
The name's Bond...James Bond.
finswin56 said:
Eh, I don't know how much better the NFL process is. In recent years, there's been a lot of "I'll vote for your guy if you vote for mine" horse trading. That strikes me as only marginally better than not voting for a guy because he was a jerk to you when you were a cub reporter for the Des Moines Herald and he was a star outfielder.