3/21 Sports Buzz - Guard Position, Thinking and Consequences | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

3/21 Sports Buzz - Guard Position, Thinking and Consequences

Daytona Fin

Daytona Fin

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When the Dolphins finished 28th in the NFL against the run and allowed the league’s eighth-most sacks last season (45), it became clear that they again needed help on both lines.That help, so far, has come in the form of a past-his-prime erstwhile star coming off his worst pro season (Mario Williams), a part-time starter in Jacksonville (Andre Branch) and a former left tackle who will be asked to play guard for the first time in his life (Jermon Bushrod).
Exploring Miami’s machinations in efforts to upgrade their lines:
• Offensive line: Miami went into the offseason interested in adding a quality veteran guard, but two things happened along the way:
1) The price exploded to levels that Miami found to be highly uncomfortable. The Dolphins liked JR Sweezy but weren’t willing to pay him the type of deal (five years, $32.5 million) that Tampa did.
They liked Alex Boone but didn’t want to match, let alone exceed, Minnesota’s four-year, $26.8 million offer. Brandon Brooks (five years, $40 million), Jeff Allen (four years, $28 million) and Evan Mathis ($6 million) priced themselves out of Miami’s range.
• The Dolphins became convinced that an outside-the-box idea --- signing lifelong tackle Bushrod and moving him to guard ---would be a magic elixir. Privately, the Dolphins believe Bushrod, 31, is going to thrive at guard and that their sports science program will help a player coming off shoulder surgery and 2015 back problems.
Coach Adam Gase, who had Bushrod in Chicago last year, not only believed that Bushrod (a Pro Bowler in 2011 and 2012) could make the transition, but also has a history of doing that sort of thing. He was offensive coordinator in Denver when Orlando Franklin shifted from tackle to guard. Franklin thrived at guard and parlayed that into a five-year, $36.5 million free agent deal with San Diego before last season. The difference: Franklin had played some guard at UM.
In recent years, moves from tackle to guard have had mixed results. J’Marcus Webb did it for Oakland last year and ranked 69th among 81 guards in Pro Football Focus rankings, comparable with Billy Turner.Justin Pugh did it for the Giants and was very good, finishing 12th in PFF’s rankings.
Bushrod said it will be challenging but he’s up for it. Even though tackle is considered the more difficult position, “it’s a whole different world on the inside, a different style of play. You have to have a certain level of athleticism," Titans offensive line coach Bob Bostad told The Tennessean when the team considered moving a tackle to guard two years ago. "You just can’t take it for granted that some guy on the outside is going to walk in and play inside.”
Bushrod could prove to be a bargain if he becomes a quality guard. He signed a one-year, $1.5 million deal, with only $985,000 guaranteed, according to NFL Players Association documents.
As for the other guard position, the situation is fluid. Miami might draft another guard or sign a cheap free agent later this summer, to compete with Turner (allowed eight sacks and 11 hurries), Jamil Douglas(permitted league’s most quarterback hurries in four games before he was benched) and Dallas Thomas(relinquished 10 sacks and 34 hurries and was PFF’s lowest-rated guard last season). Or Miami might settle for the best of those three.
There are a bunch of veteran guards who would welcome a chance here, including Louis Vazquez andManny Ramirez (Miami discussed both; both played for Gase in Denver) and Geoff Schwartz. Solid prosChris Chester and Ted Larsen also are looking for work, and some decent veteran guards should still be available after the draft. But an elite established guard? Forget that.
Miami also believes it has upgraded at backup tackle, from Jason Fox to former Jacksonville/Notre Dame/St. Thomas Aquinas player Sam Young.
PFF’s assessment of Young: “Sam Young was not good in Jacksonville. On a per snap basis, one of the weakest tackles in the league. He should be grateful for a chance to redeem himself and extremely grateful the Dolphins decided to guarantee part of his deal.” OK then.
• Defensive line: Among 123 qualifying defensive tackles last season, Pro Football Focus rated Jordan Phillips 122nd against the run and Earl Mitchell 123rd. (Ndamukong Suh was 16th).
But the Dolphins believe that isn’t an accurate reflection of Mitchell’s work and concluded early this offseason that a significant upgrade at tackle wasn’t needed. Though former interim coachDan Campbell wasn’t happy with Phillips’ consistency, the front office is still high on him. The Dolphins want Phillips in better shape; he needs to get from 325 to 315 and he’s on his way, an associate said.
With Williams, the Dolphins believe they’re getting a better player than Olivier Vernon at a much lower price and attribute his 2015 decline in Buffalo to playing out of position, including a lot of outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense. Others aren’t as convinced.
Here was Pro Football Focus’ assessment of Williams: “Last season was a borderline disaster for him, as he ranked dead-last in pass-rush grade among edge defenders. It was less an aberration and more the culmination for a player who has rarely delivered against top competition. He is by no means a bad player, and the relatively little money involved here makes this worth a flyer. But why has the team gotten older and less explosive at a premium position?”
PFF ranked Vernon 12th against the run and Williams 46th.
Click to expand...

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/spor...thinking-and-the-consequences-bosh-white.html
 
Well then lets go with Bushrod

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That doesn't paint a good picture. Basically says what the Dolphins think then has stats backing up otherwise.

Go get a guard. How can it hurt?
 
:lol: this team is an absolute train wreck when it comes to oline evaluation

appears the bushrod to guard stuff isn't really a smokescreen...and sam young the 3rd tackle

train wreck
 
Sign Louis Vasquez or Geoff Schwartz and I would feel fine about the line. Too much is being made of Bushrod trying to play LG. Plus, he is cross trained enough to move to LT if need be.
 
The idea that Barry Jackson believes any of the guys outside of KO are "elite established guards" is a joke. The only one is Mathis, and at this point he is about chasing rings over dollars and at his age he has already shown signs of injury proneness. We have tried him a few times and he said no.

Certainly it would look better if Miami just signed a few guards to say they have addressed the position, but the only thing worse than not addressing the position is addressing it with guys who just don't get the results they are seeking. The upside on Billy Turner is just as promising as any of those other guards and Miami still has a pretty deep day 2 guard class that could fit the bill. There will be veterans out there and June 1st cuts that will fit the bill.

I am not a big believer in the plan of Bushrod at guard, think he is the fallback option Miami "did not" have last year when the young guards showed in camp they were not good enough. Bushrod is our swing tackle. Knowing Gase got to know him last year in Chicago gives me comfort in the acquisition and plans for him.
 
Justin pugh was a guard right tackle coming out...best suited for guard because of the short arms...giants finally put him where he should have been all along and he plays well...amazing

Orlando franklin was a guard right tackle all along...played guard at um even...no real projection there

miamis answer...a tackle prospect and entire nfl career kicking inside with back and shoulder issues and the remedy is "sports science"...complete projection

and no matter how that works out sam freaking young as the 3rd tackle and guaranteed $150k for no reason what so ever...that 150k scares the life out of me that this is the plan at 3rd tackle

I got to really hope that this is all smokescreen for the draft...
 
Man, that's a lot of wishful thinking if true. If it somehow, miraculously works out, Gase will look like a damn genius.
 
If they are right about everything we could win 8-12 games. If they are wrong about everything we could be looking at a top 5 pick. At this point I'm predicting Vegas will have us as the worst team in the division with an over/under at about 6.

Do you think Suh takes it easy on old man Bushrod in training camp or does he make him learn what its like to play on the inside the hard way? Pouncey unlikely being in there to ease his transition won't help either.
 
Hey gang! Let's play Mad Libs with articles about the Miami Dolphins' offseason!

Ready? Go!
----------------------------------
"Privately, the Miami Dolphins believe _______ (Pick a name) is going to blossom with a _________ (pick one: change of scenery, change of position, change of name via the witness protection program).

Contrary to this view, the rest of the league believes this move is a __________ (Pick an unbelievably negative adjective) move. Fan reaction can be described in one sentence: "______ (Pick a curse word) this."

Last year, PFF rated this player ________ (pick a number between 999 and 1000) at their position out of 1000 players."
 
Man they believe in their sports science program, can move players to other positions, make athlete stronger, make people handsome...
 
Kdawg954 said:
The idea that Barry Jackson believes any of the guys outside of KO are "elite established guards" is a joke. The only one is Mathis, and at this point he is about chasing rings over dollars and at his age he has already shown signs of injury proneness. We have tried him a few times and he said no.

Certainly it would look better if Miami just signed a few guards to say they have addressed the position, but the only thing worse than not addressing the position is addressing it with guys who just don't get the results they are seeking. The upside on Billy Turner is just as promising as any of those other guards and Miami still has a pretty deep day 2 guard class that could fit the bill. There will be veterans out there and June 1st cuts that will fit the bill.

I am not a big believer in the plan of Bushrod at guard, think he is the fallback option Miami "did not" have last year when the young guards showed in camp they were not good enough. Bushrod is our swing tackle. Knowing Gase got to know him last year in Chicago gives me comfort in the acquisition and plans for him.
Click to expand...

I agree that Bushrod is probably a fallback option. But it's smart for the front office not to say that with the draft looming. I'd be very surprised if Miami didn't draft a guard very early in this draft. Hopefully, one of the young players currently on the roster develop as well. If not, that's where Bushrod comes into play IMO.
 
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