A lot of you guys got it all wrong (final depth chart)

[fishfanmiami]

Wallace started strong against Atl but hasn't done much since. Marlon has made some nice catches across the middle and always seems to get open. I would say Wallace will go. Plus CK is usually right about peronell moves.

 

[mandal24]

The original poster himself is making a big mistake as he tries to correct the mistakes he perceives others to be making.

Teams aren't beholden to these ideas of how many at a certain position they need to keep. They don't say "Well we're running a spread so we need to keep 6 receivers, so who should they be?".

They figure out what guys they have on the roster that are worth keeping on the roster. Example. Most teams keep only 3 Tight Ends. The Arizona Cardinals just cut their roster down to 53 men and you know how many of them are Tight Ends? FIVE. They cut Stephen Skelton but kept Todd Heap, Rob Housler, Jeff King, Stephen Spach and Jim Dray. And this is a team that, if you've tracked them over the years on PFF as I have, uses the Tight End position as little as anyone else out there. Last year they only had a Tight End on the field AT ALL on 870 out of 983 snaps. That's probably the lowest amount of Tight End usage in the league.

So are they just unbelievably dumb? No. You form the roster according to the talents you have. You don't fit square pegs in round holes. You have a lot of talented Tight Ends. GO WITH IT! So they've got five on roster even though last year they probably used Tight Ends the least of all teams in the NFL.

And yet here people sit thinking, "Ok well we're running more wide open so instead of 5 receivers we should carry 6 receivers, and those receiver should be..."

You can just stop right there.

The primary question on keeping 5 receivers or 6 receivers or even 7 receivers, is if the guys are worthy of keeping around. Are you afraid of them getting claimed off waivers? Can you see this guy in the long term plans as well as the short term plans?

I think on that basis the Dolphins should keep Marlon Moore and Phil Livas, but let Roberto Wallace go.

Wallace hasn't done anything for me in two years. He's big and fast but there are a lot of big and fast guys out there that can't play football. He does well on Special Teams, I'll grant him that. But othewise, he's just not making progress.

Phil Livas has proven himself as this team's punt and kick return man, and he showed that he can fill in as a slot WR and look pretty good there as well. He's got unique qualities that make him a fairly rare player, one worth keeping around on a roster. You don't often find a guy with his combination of:

1. Quick, consistent and dependable thinking under fire on punt returns
2. Good hands to where he's not muffing any punts
3. Short strides to where he's accelerating quickly
4. Long speed that tops out around 4.4, despite the short stride length

It's just not often you find guys like that and I want to keep him around. It was no coincidence he returned that punt 75 yards for a touchdown. And last night he had a nice catch from the slot on 4th & 5 where he showed off a starter's feet and quickness, and just before that drive he'd made a FANTASTIC 20 yard run-up to fair catch a 31 yard punt and not allow it to bounce 10 to 15 yards as other punt returners would have. That's as good as a 10 to 15 yard punt return, right there. It's a winning play, the kind of play that helps you win games.

I hear you and respect your opinion but let's see what team you just mentioned.. The Arizona cardinals, a team that got robbed in the kolb trade and has been a disaster ever since Warner has retired. They've failed in the draft and FA. I wouldn't look at that team and think, oh so that's how the nfl works.
And as for Livas, I don't understand all the love for the guy, he's a poor mans dexter mccluster who was highly scouted pre draft and he's a work in progress but is essentially too small to ever make an impact. Livas has had one impressive PR and done nothing since. I'd take Wallace and his gunner skills over Livas who would essentially hold a spot for just one duty. Not to mention how much this FO loves versatility.

 

[sharp]

mandal the great thread starter

 

[BG12DM13CP10]

I believe Sporano is going to keep Livas. Livas has been the only returner for the last two games. Sporano wants to keep him, he was just hoping to see more good things from him to justify it. No one else even lined up to return in the last couple games--shows Sporano wants to or is planning on using Livas. I think last night's game solidified his spot. Even though he didn't get to return anything, that big run up fair catch proved his worth. Not to mention, the nice 4th down catch over the middle showed that he is more than just a returner.

 

[matt11390]

Some of the big errors I've been seeing...

We will keep 6 receivers bc of the complex, spread offense.. The 5th and 6th receivers will be Roberto Wallace and Marlon Moore. Livas is not making this team, although will probably end up on the PS. He offers nothing as a WR or gunner.
WRS: Marshall, Bess, Hartline, Gates, Wallace, and Moore

Our TEs will be Fasano and Mastrud and eventually someone else's cuts
TE: Fasano, Clay, Mastrud, FA

Our FB will be a combo of Charles Clay and Lex Hilliard (he played some FB last year). Polite does not make this team. Tyrone Culver took a pay cut to remain with the team while Polite was not asked to take a pay cut. No way a rarely used FB in this offense is gonna be making 1.5 million.
FB/H-B: Hilliard/Clay

QBs are easy, Henne and Moore. Devlin to the PS
QB: Henne, Moore

The offensive line is pretty much understood.
OL: Long, Incognito, Pouncey, Carey, Colombo, Garner, Murtha, Berger, and Feinga

The RBs will be Bush, Thomas, Johnson, and Hilliard

DL is pretty much understood
DL: Langford, Soliai, Starks, Odrick, McDaniel, Baker, Fields (only true NT if Soliai goes down)

LBers- Marvin Mitchell definitely makes this team. He's been awesome. Spittler has not. He gets cut. Spears to the PS. True nick also makes it as he was our first FA pickup and this FO loves special teamers
LBers: Dansby, Burnett, Wake, Misi, Taylor, Edds, Trusnick, Mitchell, IAF

Sapp and Allen both make this team. Carroll has been awful and gets cut. So it's Davis, Smith, Allen, Sapp, and Wilson
CB: Davis, Smith, Allen, Sapp, Wilson

Safeties will be Bell, Jones, Clemons, Culver (he just took a pay cut)
S: Bell, Jones, Clemons, Culver

Specialists: Fields, Carpenter, Denney, Gates (PR and KR)

You have a good roster but I would say Feinga gets cut and Nolan Carroll makes it. 8 OL and 6 CB's. I feel Carroll has more value, even though his camp hasn't been that much. He brings return speed and the way the league is going, having 6 CB's is essential.

 

[rent this space]

I believe Sporano is going to keep Livas. Livas has been the only returner for the last two games. Sporano wants to keep him, he was just hoping to see more good things from him to justify it. No one else even lined up to return in the last couple games--shows Sporano wants to or is planning on using Livas. I think last night's game solidified his spot. Even though he didn't get to return anything, that big run up fair catch proved his worth. Not to mention, the nice 4th down catch over the middle showed that he is more than just a returner.

Sparano?

 

[BenchFiedler]

i think livas makes it spears makes it devlis hangs on
polite hangs on hillard cut larry johnson makes it
wallace cut ..

On the Larry Johnson TD, take a look who was the FB = Hilliard... He has more value than Polite at this point and on special teams...

Livas has not shown enough to be on the 53 man roster..

 

[Sarnics13]

but is essentially too small to ever make an impact.

So was Wayne Chrebet, Barry Sanders, Wes Welker, Darren Sproles, Maurice Jones Drew, Jim Leonhard, Bob Sanders, Desean Jackson, Antoine Winfield, Steve Smith....

Don't ever underestimate the size of the fight in the dog!!

 

[WaxOn WaxOff]

I think the thread starter has it pretty close, except Merling makes it. As to the guy that griped about him starting a new thread on this topic, I wish they had a thumbs down I could use on you.

 

[MD]

I hear you and respect your opinion but let's see what team you just mentioned.. The Arizona cardinals, a team that got robbed in the kolb trade and has been a disaster ever since Warner has retired. They've failed in the draft and FA. I wouldn't look at that team and think, oh so that's how the nfl works.
And as for Livas, I don't understand all the love for the guy, he's a poor mans dexter mccluster who was highly scouted pre draft and he's a work in progress but is essentially too small to ever make an impact. Livas has had one impressive PR and done nothing since. I'd take Wallace and his gunner skills over Livas who would essentially hold a spot for just one duty. Not to mention how much this FO loves versatility.

The Cardinals failed because Kurt Warner retired. The difference between the Cardinals and Dolphins is that they went after a QB aggressively while the Dolphins continue treading water. It was a high price to pay but if Kolb gets them back to the playoffs, it will be worth it.

 

[Zounds]

I think Livas gets the axe. Our FO has shown that they dont value players who are just return specialists. If Livas didn't show enough as a WR then he's a goner, and I don't think he showed much.

 

[finfan54]

great post ck! i appreciate you dictating my sentiments when I cant because i have a weak mind. I really appreciate it! Seriously though, Isnt reggie bush going to used as a WR out wide? didnt we see that? Dont we know that we will put reggie in motion out of backfield?

cmon people, we all know this is ab out fantasy league points.

 

[finfan54]

I think Livas gets the axe. Our FO has shown that they dont value players who are just return specialists. If Livas didn't show enough as a WR then he's a goner, and I don't think he showed much.

yeah but ck brings up a great point about them putting hm in slot and throwing to him. I would think they were taking a looksie there dont you? It works the other way around too you know? If Moore cant do much on special teams, but livas can do some of the things they will ask moore to do on offense, they go with livas.

CK correctly points out what Livas did on returns as much as what he did not do.....screw up. That is/was one of our problems last year and that is having a guy aside from bess who will be doing more important things in this offense who doesnt screw up and can take it to the house when given the opportunity.

 

[Valandui]

I hear you and respect your opinion but let's see what team you just mentioned.. The Arizona cardinals, a team that got robbed in the kolb trade and has been a disaster ever since Warner has retired. They've failed in the draft and FA. I wouldn't look at that team and think, oh so that's how the nfl works.
And as for Livas, I don't understand all the love for the guy, he's a poor mans dexter mccluster who was highly scouted pre draft and he's a work in progress but is essentially too small to ever make an impact. Livas has had one impressive PR and done nothing since. I'd take Wallace and his gunner skills over Livas who would essentially hold a spot for just one duty. Not to mention how much this FO loves versatility.

Livas is an inch shorter than McCluster, but 10 lbs heavier and significantly faster.

 

[ckparrothead]

I personally believe that not only is Phil Livas making the team, but that the Dolphins decided that he was probably going to make the team weeks ago. They wouldn't have given him 100% of the returns work in Weeks 3 and 4 of the preseason if they had a feeling he wasn't going to make the team. They would need to get other players practicing those returns so that they would be ready to handle those duties during the season. I suppose you could argue that Davone Bess doesn't need preseason practice returning punts (I disagree), but as far as I can tell they stopped giving Gates kick return duties after Week 2 as well, and Gates would most certainly need as much practice as he can get returning kicks if he were going to be the primary kick returner.