A Mismanaged Franchise. Where it has Failed and Where It Must Start To Rebuild | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

A Mismanaged Franchise. Where it has Failed and Where It Must Start To Rebuild

Da 'Fins

Da 'Fins

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Perhaps the central reason the Dolphins have failed is talent and talent evaluation. Compared to the Patriots - both a division rival and the most successful franchise in the NFL in the 2000's - consider this:

Since 2000 (when Belichick took over with the Pats), the Pats, during which they have won 3 SB's, have had

* 61total draft choices, including: 7 1st rounders, 7 2nd rounders, 6 3rd rounders, and 12 4th rounders.

Over the same time the Dolphins have had:

* 47 total draft choices, including: 4 1st rounders, 4 2nd rounders, 8 3rd rounders, 4 4th rounders.

Despite the Patriots winning 3 SB's, they have 3 more 1st round picks, 3 more 2nd round picks, 8 more 4th round picks and 14 more total draft selections.

And, this year? The Pats already have two 1st round picks.

The point is not to glorify the Patriots, but to note how crafty (no pun intended) they have been with the draft and how pitiful Miami has been.

If this franchise wants to be truly competitive - and by that I don't mean a 9-7, 10-6 franchise, but one that has the ingredients to make it to the playoffs and have a legitimate shot at getting to the SB - which they haven't really had since the Don Shula era - they must start to rebuild this team with young players in the draft.

Last year was a classic mistake. They could have traded down and still drafted Jason Allen - or an equally talented player. Even if they may not have gotten much in return by trading down a few slots, a 5th round pick would get them another player with a chance to compete and become a starter.

The value of having extra picks is not just that you expect to have more players make the team, it benefits a team in two ways:

1) If a top pick is a bust, the harm will not be so bad with more players making the team. The pressure to hit it big on every pick is not so great.

2) It gives a team more chances of striking gold with a star player (such as the Pats did with Brady in round 5 of 2000).

Even if it means trading down or perhaps trying to accumulate some future draft choices, the Dolphins need to continually look to the future. Saban obviously believed this team had a shot at a SB run and has accumulated several aging vets and has sacrificed two draft choices along the way. It is time to sit down with Randy Meuller and map out a long term strategy for accumulating younger players and stick with that plan. The key - younger, more athletic and hungrier football players.

Otherwise, this team will have lost its fan base and will be relegated to the bottom half of the league as far as quality franchises. It is no longer one of the great franchises in the league as it was over the 30 year period from the 70's to 2000.
 
GOOD POST!

the dullphins dont have me fooled anymore with the smoke and mirrors dog-and-pony show!!! i bet you we trade out of the 1st pick and pick up a bunch of waiverwire pick-a-part bargain basement free agents again next year!! continue our tradition of signing turds Huizenga!
 
Da 'Fins said:
Perhaps the central reason the Dolphins have failed is talent and talent evaluation. Compared to the Patriots - both a division rival and the most successful franchise in the NFL in the 2000's - consider this:

Since 2000 (when Belichick took over with the Pats), the Pats, during which they have won 3 SB's, have had

* 61total draft choices, including: 7 1st rounders, 7 2nd rounders, 6 3rd rounders, and 12 4th rounders.

Over the same time the Dolphins have had:

* 47 total draft choices, including: 4 1st rounders, 4 2nd rounders, 8 3rd rounders, 4 4th rounders.

Despite the Patriots winning 3 SB's, they have 3 more 1st round picks, 3 more 2nd round picks, 8 more 4th round picks and 14 more total draft selections.

And, this year? The Pats already have two 1st round picks.

The point is not to glorify the Patriots, but to note how crafty (no pun intended) they have been with the draft and how pitiful Miami has been.

If this franchise wants to be truly competitive - and by that I don't mean a 9-7, 10-6 franchise, but one that has the ingredients to make it to the playoffs and have a legitimate shot at getting to the SB - which they haven't really had since the Don Shula era - they must start to rebuild this team with young players in the draft.

Last year was a classic mistake. They could have traded down and still drafted Jason Allen - or an equally talented player. Even if they may not have gotten much in return by trading down a few slots, a 5th round pick would get them another player with a chance to compete and become a starter.

The value of having extra picks is not just that you expect to have more players make the team, it benefits a team in two ways:

1) If a top pick is a bust, the harm will not be so bad with more players making the team. The pressure to hit it big on every pick is not so great.

2) It gives a team more chances of striking gold with a star player (such as the Pats did with Brady in round 5 of 2000).

Even if it means trading down or perhaps trying to accumulate some future draft choices, the Dolphins need to continually look to the future. Saban obviously believed this team had a shot at a SB run and has accumulated several aging vets and has sacrificed two draft choices along the way. It is time to sit down with Randy Meuller and map out a long term strategy for accumulating younger players and stick with that plan. The key - younger, more athletic and hungrier football players.

Otherwise, this team will have lost its fan base and will be relegated to the bottom half of the league as far as quality franchises. It is no longer one of the great franchises in the league as it was over the 30 year period from the 70's to 2000.
Click to expand...

A couple of things: 1) You make an assumption that there was anyone willing to trade with us for that 16th pick, I mean, look who was available?
2) CPEP for a 2nd Rounder may not have been that bad, we'll have to wait until next year to see ultimately. 3)Those aging vets on the Dline are some of the best players on this team and would likely be starters on most other teams as well, the Dline isn't our problem.

Having said that, I agree with you point which is that we've squandered too many draft choices, but most of that began before Saban got here because of the pressure to win right away and a belief that our team was bettter than it was as well as mismanagement and the failure to properly invest in the QB position. Ultimately, in this league if you have a good QB, you probably win, if you don't, then you definitely loose
 
Da 'Fins said:
Perhaps the central reason the Dolphins have failed is talent and talent evaluation. Compared to the Patriots - both a division rival and the most successful franchise in the NFL in the 2000's - consider this:

Since 2000 (when Belichick took over with the Pats), the Pats, during which they have won 3 SB's, have had

* 61total draft choices, including: 7 1st rounders, 7 2nd rounders, 6 3rd rounders, and 12 4th rounders.

Over the same time the Dolphins have had:

* 47 total draft choices, including: 4 1st rounders, 4 2nd rounders, 8 3rd rounders, 4 4th rounders.

Despite the Patriots winning 3 SB's, they have 3 more 1st round picks, 3 more 2nd round picks, 8 more 4th round picks and 14 more total draft selections.

And, this year? The Pats already have two 1st round picks.

The point is not to glorify the Patriots, but to note how crafty (no pun intended) they have been with the draft and how pitiful Miami has been.

If this franchise wants to be truly competitive - and by that I don't mean a 9-7, 10-6 franchise, but one that has the ingredients to make it to the playoffs and have a legitimate shot at getting to the SB - which they haven't really had since the Don Shula era - they must start to rebuild this team with young players in the draft.

Last year was a classic mistake. They could have traded down and still drafted Jason Allen - or an equally talented player. Even if they may not have gotten much in return by trading down a few slots, a 5th round pick would get them another player with a chance to compete and become a starter.

The value of having extra picks is not just that you expect to have more players make the team, it benefits a team in two ways:

1) If a top pick is a bust, the harm will not be so bad with more players making the team. The pressure to hit it big on every pick is not so great.

2) It gives a team more chances of striking gold with a star player (such as the Pats did with Brady in round 5 of 2000).

Even if it means trading down or perhaps trying to accumulate some future draft choices, the Dolphins need to continually look to the future. Saban obviously believed this team had a shot at a SB run and has accumulated several aging vets and has sacrificed two draft choices along the way. It is time to sit down with Randy Meuller and map out a long term strategy for accumulating younger players and stick with that plan. The key - younger, more athletic and hungrier football players.

Otherwise, this team will have lost its fan base and will be relegated to the bottom half of the league as far as quality franchises. It is no longer one of the great franchises in the league as it was over the 30 year period from the 70's to 2000.
Click to expand...

Some of the Pat's so-called craftiness in accumulating extra draft picks has to do with the fact that they've won 3 SBs. Teams are often willing to overpay (for) a player coming from the previous year's SB winner. Although Randel-El was a FA and not traded, he's still a shining example of that fact.
 
Da 'Fins said:
Perhaps the central reason the Dolphins have failed is talent and talent evaluation. Compared to the Patriots - both a division rival and the most successful franchise in the NFL in the 2000's - consider this:

Since 2000 (when Belichick took over with the Pats), the Pats, during which they have won 3 SB's, have had

* 61total draft choices, including: 7 1st rounders, 7 2nd rounders, 6 3rd rounders, and 12 4th rounders.

Over the same time the Dolphins have had:

* 47 total draft choices, including: 4 1st rounders, 4 2nd rounders, 8 3rd rounders, 4 4th rounders.

Despite the Patriots winning 3 SB's, they have 3 more 1st round picks, 3 more 2nd round picks, 8 more 4th round picks and 14 more total draft selections.

And, this year? The Pats already have two 1st round picks.

The point is not to glorify the Patriots, but to note how crafty (no pun intended) they have been with the draft and how pitiful Miami has been.

If this franchise wants to be truly competitive - and by that I don't mean a 9-7, 10-6 franchise, but one that has the ingredients to make it to the playoffs and have a legitimate shot at getting to the SB - which they haven't really had since the Don Shula era - they must start to rebuild this team with young players in the draft.

Last year was a classic mistake. They could have traded down and still drafted Jason Allen - or an equally talented player. Even if they may not have gotten much in return by trading down a few slots, a 5th round pick would get them another player with a chance to compete and become a starter.

The value of having extra picks is not just that you expect to have more players make the team, it benefits a team in two ways:

1) If a top pick is a bust, the harm will not be so bad with more players making the team. The pressure to hit it big on every pick is not so great.

2) It gives a team more chances of striking gold with a star player (such as the Pats did with Brady in round 5 of 2000).

Even if it means trading down or perhaps trying to accumulate some future draft choices, the Dolphins need to continually look to the future. Saban obviously believed this team had a shot at a SB run and has accumulated several aging vets and has sacrificed two draft choices along the way. It is time to sit down with Randy Meuller and map out a long term strategy for accumulating younger players and stick with that plan. The key - younger, more athletic and hungrier football players.

Otherwise, this team will have lost its fan base and will be relegated to the bottom half of the league as far as quality franchises. It is no longer one of the great franchises in the league as it was over the 30 year period from the 70's to 2000.
Click to expand...

Saban has already said he plans on building through the draft.. he is tied to contracts to players already signed... You just cant go cutting eveyrone.
 
Da 'Fins said:
Perhaps the central reason the Dolphins have failed is talent and talent evaluation. Compared to the Patriots - both a division rival and the most successful franchise in the NFL in the 2000's - consider this:

Since 2000 (when Belichick took over with the Pats), the Pats, during which they have won 3 SB's, have had

* 61total draft choices, including: 7 1st rounders, 7 2nd rounders, 6 3rd rounders, and 12 4th rounders.

Over the same time the Dolphins have had:

* 47 total draft choices, including: 4 1st rounders, 4 2nd rounders, 8 3rd rounders, 4 4th rounders.

Despite the Patriots winning 3 SB's, they have 3 more 1st round picks, 3 more 2nd round picks, 8 more 4th round picks and 14 more total draft selections.

And, this year? The Pats already have two 1st round picks.

The point is not to glorify the Patriots, but to note how crafty (no pun intended) they have been with the draft and how pitiful Miami has been.

If this franchise wants to be truly competitive - and by that I don't mean a 9-7, 10-6 franchise, but one that has the ingredients to make it to the playoffs and have a legitimate shot at getting to the SB - which they haven't really had since the Don Shula era - they must start to rebuild this team with young players in the draft.

Last year was a classic mistake. They could have traded down and still drafted Jason Allen - or an equally talented player. Even if they may not have gotten much in return by trading down a few slots, a 5th round pick would get them another player with a chance to compete and become a starter.

The value of having extra picks is not just that you expect to have more players make the team, it benefits a team in two ways:

1) If a top pick is a bust, the harm will not be so bad with more players making the team. The pressure to hit it big on every pick is not so great.

2) It gives a team more chances of striking gold with a star player (such as the Pats did with Brady in round 5 of 2000).

Even if it means trading down or perhaps trying to accumulate some future draft choices, the Dolphins need to continually look to the future. Saban obviously believed this team had a shot at a SB run and has accumulated several aging vets and has sacrificed two draft choices along the way. It is time to sit down with Randy Meuller and map out a long term strategy for accumulating younger players and stick with that plan. The key - younger, more athletic and hungrier football players.

Otherwise, this team will have lost its fan base and will be relegated to the bottom half of the league as far as quality franchises. It is no longer one of the great franchises in the league as it was over the 30 year period from the 70's to 2000.
Click to expand...

You make some good points but I disagree with the conclusions you've drawn, as noted in the title of your thread. Yes, it's true that a large part of the Patriots success is due to their remarkable draft history, but I don't think comparing Saban's tenure in Miami to that of BB's with the Patriots is fair or accurate.
Saban has only had two drafts, and quite frankly, it is too early to evaluate last year's crop, let alone this year's. Having said that, I think many football folk would give Saban high marks for the first draft. It wasn't a draft class that was loaded with talent. He tried to trade down but there were no takers. So far, R Brown has probably been the best RB of that draft. There were a few defensive palyers who have played extremely well such as Merriman and Ware, but it would have been very difficult for Saban to take either of these players at number 2 given the RB situation.
You noted that the fins made a 'classic mistake' taking Allen without a trade down. Again, it's too ealry to evalaute Allen, and again, the players available at the time were not as attractive. Saban has noted that he had Maroney rated as high as Allen, but it would have been hard to justify picking another Rb in the first round back to back years. I think you have to give Allen at least a full season before drawing conclusions.

Some people have criticised Saban for not taking a QB and for trading a second for DC. I liked the move then and I still do now. Finding a QB is the bane of most NFL franchises. We had an opportunity to get a QB that was arguably a top 5 Qb in the league less than 2 years ago. His injury was severe but the medical staff gave Saban enough assurances that he would recover. He just may not be recovering as quickly as Saban and the coaching staff had hoped. I have no problem with Saban's decision to go after a proven veteran QB, given how hard that position is to fill, and they were in no position to pick a QB at 16.

You could argue that Saban should have traded older players to get more draft picks, and thus younger, but that is more difficult than it sounds. First of all, it's not as if the dolphins had a lot of 'trade bait' to offer. Other than JT, I doubt we would have received a second for any of the players on the roster.

Saban's offfseason moves have also been fairly solid. We have not paid exorbitanlty for many FAs-with the exception of Carter, who has played well- and been able to fill some holes.

There is no question that NE has been very productive in the draft but to then use this point as criticism of Saban is somewhat invidious. Nobody has been as successfull at the draft as the Pats have. The Pats success , however, is not only due to their draft.

It's no criticism of the Pats braintrust but I don't think they ever dreamed that Tom Brady would turn out to be the best player in football-If they did, then they were sure playing a risky game by waiting until the 199th pick him. The Pats, jsut as Saban has done, acquired players that were not exactly Spring Chickens when building their dynsaty (e.g Harrison, Vrabel, Seau). The bottom line is that in order to be successful in the NFL you have to evaluate ALL players well, vets included.
 
phinphanforever said:
You make some good points but I disagree with the conclusions you've drawn, as noted in the title of your thread. Yes, it's true that a large part of the Patriots success is due to their remarkable draft history, but I don't think comparing Saban's tenure in Miami to that of BB's with the Patriots is fair or accurate.
Saban has only had two drafts, and quite frankly, it is too early to evaluate last year's crop, let alone this year's. Having said that, I think many football folk would give Saban high marks for the first draft. It wasn't a draft class that was loaded with talent. He tried to trade down but there were no takers. So far, R Brown has probably been the best RB of that draft. There were a few defensive palyers who have played extremely well such as Merriman and Ware, but it would have been very difficult for Saban to take either of these players at number 2 given the RB situation.
You noted that the fins made a 'classic mistake' taking Allen without a trade down. Again, it's too ealry to evalaute Allen, and again, the players available at the time were not as attractive. Saban has noted that he had Maroney rated as high as Allen, but it would have been hard to justify picking another Rb in the first round back to back years. I think you have to give Allen at least a full season before drawing conclusions.

Some people have criticised Saban for not taking a QB and for trading a second for DC. I liked the move then and I still do now. Finding a QB is the bane of most NFL franchises. We had an opportunity to get a QB that was arguably a top 5 Qb in the league less than 2 years ago. His injury was severe but the medical staff gave Saban enough assurances that he would recover. He just may not be recovering as quickly as Saban and the coaching staff had hoped. I have no problem with Saban's decision to go after a proven veteran QB, given how hard that position is to fill, and they were in no position to pick a QB at 16.

You could argue that Saban should have traded older players to get more draft picks, and thus younger, but that is more difficult than it sounds. First of all, it's not as if the dolphins had a lot of 'trade bait' to offer. Other than JT, I doubt we would have received a second for any of the players on the roster.

Saban's offfseason moves have also been fairly solid. We have not paid exorbitanlty for many FAs-with the exception of Carter, who has played well- and been able to fill some holes.

There is no question that NE has been very productive in the draft but to then use this point as criticism of Saban is somewhat invidious. Nobody has been as successfull at the draft as the Pats have. The Pats success , however, is not only due to their draft.

It's no criticism of the Pats braintrust but I don't think they ever dreamed that Tom Brady would turn out to be the best player in football-If they did, then they were sure playing a risky game by waiting until the 199th pick him. The Pats, jsut as Saban has done, acquired players that were not exactly Spring Chickens when building their dynsaty (e.g Harrison, Vrabel, Seau). The bottom line is that in order to be successful in the NFL you have to evaluate ALL players well, vets included.
Click to expand...

very good points.
 
we have never been shrewd drafters, except when Jimmy was here, maybe Jimmy should have stayed on as PRESIDENT OF OPERATIONS....although he didnt hit on all his picks, where would the Dolphins be without his picks?
Some of our BETTER picks we couln't even afford to keep them, which is ridiculous.....

DE ADAWELE OGUNLEYE
LB MORLON GREENWOOD
CB PAT SURTAIN

just keeping those 3 players and were probably a winning team right now.....only Surtain leaving though is Saban's fault.
 
Really good post. Comfirmed alot of what I was thinking. We really need alot more younger players. I really hope make the right choices this upcoming one.
 
Jimmy Johnson? This the same guy that drafted John Avery in the 1st round and passed on Moss. Give me a break!
 
JJW1339 said:
Jimmy Johnson? This the same guy that drafted John Avery in the 1st round and passed on Moss. Give me a break!
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Not that I want to defend JJ bc I think he was a defensive genius, but an offensive imbecile but he did not pass on Moss. He traded down from the 19th pick (if I remember correctly) around the time when the 12th pick in the draft was on the clock.
 
ChuckKLINGBEIL said:
we have never been shrewd drafters, except when Jimmy was here, maybe Jimmy should have stayed on as PRESIDENT OF OPERATIONS....although he didnt hit on all his picks, where would the Dolphins be without his picks?
Some of our BETTER picks we couln't even afford to keep them, which is ridiculous.....

DE ADAWELE OGUNLEYE
LB MORLON GREENWOOD
CB PAT SURTAIN

just keeping those 3 players and were probably a winning team right now.....only Surtain leaving though is Saban's fault.
Click to expand...

What was so special about Greenwood?
 
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